Mayo compared to Foye (article)

[revprodeji]

wow, this one got me thinking. Maybe love is the best option?

http://www.canishoopus.com/2008/6/20/55 ... the-player

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Got me thinking to. When did Kevin Love become a small forward?

Turd article

[Devilzsidewalk]

Rev you just said watching Mayo's game transcends any statistics on him

[the_bruce]

I agree with this 100%. I view selecting Mayo, Rose, bayless, etc as duplicates of players we already have, but I think you gotta put it in context in that These numbers compare final seasons of the players. Nottheir first and theres a ton of development that was done between the seasons in college for Foye and McCants. In the event Mayo is taken and kept I would assume the FO would ship McCants somewhere for a pick in this deep draft. A pick from 15-25 could net the wolves a very nice player.

[MilMinMan]

Got me thinking to. When did Kevin Love become a small forward?

Turd article

Boo! We even linked to you on the new logo. Not that that means you can't criticize.

Regardless, Love playing the 3 was brought up on Hoopus in another article or some comments that I can't find at the moment. I'll link if I find it.

EDIT: Spoke to soon. The idea is brought up in the comments: http://www.canishoopus.com/2008/6/19/55 ... win-shares

[PeeDee]

Love at the 3 is ridiculous.

[stop-n-pop]

Guys (and maybe some gals):

Position numbers don't matter with any lineups including Love in the frontcourt. It's all about matchups. 3, 4, or 5 doesn't matter if he's paired with teammates that can help him deal with problematic matchups. Same thing with Big Al and the 5; he can deal with certain centers and others...not so much. As long as the team has some defensive flexibility with a long athletic defender or two, Love could work as a small forward in name only...or a center. Whatever you want to call him, he can lineup alongside of Big Al and be alright.

[deeney0]

I'll ignore the lunacy of Love playing 3 for a second and just point out that if he did, the Wolves still have no one competent to start in the post next to Al.

[Tekkenlaw]

I wouldn't mind ending up with any two players out of Kaman/Bogut/Gallinari/Love or some other combination of players and picks for #3. Drafting Mayo would probably take a lot of shots away from Foye, and I'd like to see him become a 20ppg scorer and all-star. I think he has the skills to handle the offensive load in the backcourt by himself.

[stop-n-pop]

I'll ignore the lunacy of Love playing 3 for a second and just point out that if he did, the Wolves still have no one competent to start in the post next to Al.

And doggone it, they're going to get everything they need in a single year.

[deeney0]

That's not what I'm saying at all. But if you're going to draft Love, it's not to play him at 3.

[stop-n-pop]

Of course not. You'd draft him because he's the BPA, best frontcourt player available, he could run the double post with Big Al and space the lane. Sometimes he'd match up against small forwards, others against 4s and sometimes against 5s.

[stop-n-pop]

Of course not. You'd draft him because he's the BPA, best frontcourt player available, he could run the double post with Big Al and space the lane. Sometimes he'd match up against small forwards, others against 4s and sometimes against 5s.

[deeney0]

He's not the best player available.

[collin_k41]

Love is NOT the BPA at the #3. To me he's a 6-10 type pick. Mayo IS the best player available and he's who we should pick barring a trade.

[Jonathan Watters]

Love at the 3 is absurd.

This article wasn't, until the end where the guy says Mayo will be somewhere in between Jim Jackson and Steve Francis.

Was he being sarcastic? Maybe he should have given himself a little more room, and said somewhere between Dwight Howard and Chris Paul...

[stop-n-pop]

Speaking of absurd, some of the reading comprehension levels here qualify for that ranking. In the article it is clearly listed as saying that the "top end" of Mayo's talent lies between Francis and Jackson. For a guy who has been tossed around Wolves boards and local radio programs with names like Bryant, AI, and even lesser players like Billups and Payton (I was part of this later group at one point), and for a guy who many fans see superstar potential, saying his high end is in the range of these two players isn't that far out there.

Again, positional issues for the Wolves come in a distant second to functional needs and where ever Love ends up if he gets drafted by the Wolves, he'll end up playing against 3s, 4s, and 5s. Hell, bump Jefferson to the 5 and Love to the 4 and call it apple pie...it will all be the same in the end no matter what you call his front court position.

With a bit more seriousness, why do you guys think that Mayo is the BPA? What sort of track record does he have that suggests a team that has taken 2 6'4" combo guards and a 185 lbs shooting guard who can't shoot or dribble in the last 3 drafts would view a 6'4" combo guard with Mayo's stat set as being the best thing available for anything other than the purpose of trading down? Is it the name? The national coverage?

Take a look at a player like Mario Chalmers. Here's how he breaks down in key areas:

PER: 22.5
PPR: 3.12
efg: 63%
3fg%: 46.8
pts/play: 1.25
ORtg: 124.5
FTRate: 40.9

Mayo:

PER: 22.3
PPR: -3.71
efg: 52%
3fg%: 40.9
pts/play: 1.10
ORtg: 105.2
FTRate: 28.4

Chalmers is probably the best on-the-ball perimeter defender in the draft to boot. In every one of those categories--all of which are important to the Wolves, especially PPR (turnovers/assists), efg, and FTRate--Chalmers is clearly superior to Mayo and it's not even all that close. You can make the claim that the difference between Kansas and USC may account for some of the differences here, but with shooting, turnovers, and free throws, that's an especially hard thing to argue. Even if you acknowledge the differences in teams, Chalmers had better players around him who could work to drag down his overall numbers more than, say, Taj Gibson.

Let's say the Wolves do find a way to move into the teens. How on earth is Mayo worth more at 3 than Chalmers at 15?

Mayo is going to be a solid player. I'd guess he'll be one of those guys who gets 18ppg with about 4 reb and 4 assists while gathering between 1-2 on the ppr with a 16-18 PER. That's a solid performer and I honestly wouldn't be upset with him on the Wolves. However, as far as BPA or need goes, it's pretty hard to argue with a straight face that Mayo is deserving of the 3 pick all by his lonesome. The team already has a guy who could get 18/4/4 while maintaining those sorts of efficiency numbers. Granted, he's a bit older and the team traded away a better player to get him (plus a million bucks), but is Mayo worth enough to make this sort of duplication work over other available options? Even if you don't agree that Love is the BPA at 3 (and I'd like to see how you can show that he's not, especially in regards to Mayo), there are issues with his selection.

[dunkonu21]

There are worse things than having two Foye's especially since they can both play the 1 and 2 successfully. I don't think comparing statistics is very smart in projecting a 20 year old player. Especially when Foye and McCants had a lot of NBA type talent on the team with them, whereas Mayo had some borderline NBA talent. This article is a lesser one IMO.

[revprodeji]

stop-n-pop. I enjoy reading your stuff. Please stay.

Love is a 4. People had concerns if he was fast enough to defend the 4, there is no way he can defend the 3. NBA position is based on who you can defend.

The article is interesting, it did make me think. But...it comes down to who is the BPA. I think you could make a case for Love and Mayo both being great fits. (Love as a big-passing-rebounder/Mayo as a defensive-playmaking-shooter) In order to avoid the Milan comparison we need to be sure Mayo is the homerun hit. The legit #2 option. If we think he is that then we take him and run.

[stop-n-pop]

Danke.

My point about Love is that he brings such a unique skill set to the table that you can line him up as a generic frontcourt player and then rotate the rest of the roster around him (and Jefferson) on the defensive end of the court. Call him a 4, 5, or 3...as long as his name is being called, I think the Wolves are a better team.

I honestly don't see the playmaking ability of Mayo. It would have been nice to see him stay another year in college to see if he could keep that 2 to 1 a/to ratio he had in the last month up. Still, his ppr is soooooooooo bad that it's pretty hard to overlook.

The more and more I think about it, this draft is about the best 2 pick combo (plus additional assets) that the Wolves can gather in the 1st round. Talent wise, Beasley + CDR would be about as good as it could get. There would likely be no additional assets, but a core of Jefferson, Beasley, and CDR would be rock solid moving down the line. I think Love + CDR + additional assets from a team like Seattle or Memphis (ideally a big) would be a close second.

I honestly don't get the Mayo stuff with players like Chalmers and CDR on the board. If you want defense, shooting, and top notch playmaking ability, Chalmers probably has the best combination of that skill set in the entire draft. If you want the sort of player that can break down a defense and score on his own at the end of the game, CDR is there for the taking. Mayo is out-Mayo'd by other players in this draft. That being said, if the Clips want him, then by all means the Wolves should try to make sure he finds a home for a nice player in return (as well as the pick). I'd be more than happy with Alexander, Speights, Lopez, or Gallinari + whoever the Clips could throw the Wolves way.