Would you guys do RJ for Odom? Draft reasons alone

Gerald3Wallace · Post #41 » by **Gerald3Wallace** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:53 pm

id rather trade odom for artest

davidse · Post #42 » by **davidse** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:22 pm

it's ridiculous to put radmanovic in the deal.

the only reason for the deal from the nets' standpoint is cap flexiblity next season.
value wise - odom probably has a bit more trade value because of his expiring contract compared to jefferson's huge deal, but the difference defenetly isn't radmanovic for boon.

i think this is something the lakers will look at, but only after they try other guys first - like artest, marion, etc.

the goal for the nets should be to land odom, and then send him out at the deadline for a garbage expiring contract (say lefrantz, or walley), and a couple of 1st rd picks or young player.

a basic jefferson for odom deal has a shot. but only if the lakers fail to get other guys first.

Hoops23 · Post #43 » by **Hoops23** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:11 am

I think the good trade between Nets and LAL is Odom, Ariza and Mihm for RJ and Swift.

I don't think the Nets will trade RJ for Odom straight up, much more if the Lakers include Radma.

mack69 · Post #44 » by **mack69** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:20 am

Gerald3Wallace wrote:id rather trade odom for artest

That is the direction where lakers should be going in. They need hard nose defender!!!!!!!!

mack69 · Post #45 » by **mack69** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:28 am

I dont see our organization making this move it doesnt't fit into the long term approach for 2010.

Gerald3Wallace · Post #46 » by **Gerald3Wallace** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:38 pm

mack69 wrote:
Gerald3Wallace wrote:id rather trade odom for artest

That is the direction where lakers should be going in. They need hard nose defender!!!!!!!!

agreed...as a laker fan

someone like gerald wallace or ron artest i would go after....RJ is an awesome player, but i dont think we need his scoring..we have too much of that already..what we lack was perimeter defense because kobe seems to not try as much as he use too..

andyways..a trade for wallace or artest will definitely help us and it will definitly help them, knowing they are a lottery team, they will need odoms expiring to sign a big name.

Jajwanda · Post #47 » by **Jajwanda** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:52 pm

It's really pretty simple. The trade would be dead even Odom for Jefferson. Laker fans feel they should get more and Nets fans feel they should get more. Simply said one-one works and I think the Lakers will consider it.

By the way I haven't heard from Nets fans in a while. How's RJ's defense lately? I remember it being good in the past but nothing astounding. Something like 8 out of 10 if Artest is a 10 out of 10 and Battier off the board...

NetsForce · Post #48 » by **NetsForce** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:42 pm

I actually think Jefferson is a perfect fit for the Lakers. The Lakers need someone other than Kobe who is willing and able to create his own offense (effectively), Jefferson does that better than someone like Gerald Wallace and is right on par with someone like Ron Artest (if not better than him at creating his own offense as well).

Jajwanda · Post #49 » by **Jajwanda** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:24 am

How's his defense though?

Preludepunk27 · Post #50 » by **Preludepunk27** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:06 am

Jajwanda wrote:How's his defense though?

I still think he's an above average defender. He's even admitted in interviews that the crap that has gone down this year took a major toll on him. Everyone's been saying he's slacked on defense this year (cause it's true) but I think he's just lost the fire in his eyes since they're not very competitive anymore. I think if we were contenders again or he was traded to a contender, he's return to almost all-star form (He's never gonna be an all-star thanks to other guys in his position unless he just has a completely unreal season one year IMO).

halfHAVOC · Post #51 » by **halfHAVOC** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:09 am

NetsForce wrote:I actually think Jefferson is a perfect fit for the Lakers. The Lakers need someone other than Kobe who is willing and able to create his own offense (effectively), Jefferson does that better than someone like Gerald Wallace and is right on par with someone like Ron Artest (if not better than him at creating his own offense as well).

they have enough offense, RJ is really useless unless hes scoring so..................you basically are trying to add someone who needs touches when they have bynum back , and you still dont improve on defense.

Jajwanda · Post #52 » by **Jajwanda** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:59 am

That's really not an accurate portrayal of what Jefferson would in the Lakers offense as well as his defensive capabilities in a good year compared to the utter crap we've experienced from Radmanovic and Walton. R.J. looks like Ron Artest next to these guys on defense. The touches are not a major concern of mine. R.J. will get his share of open looks.

Birth of the Cool · Post #53 » by **Birth of the Cool** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:21 pm

NetsForce wrote:I actually think Jefferson is a perfect fit for the Lakers. The Lakers need someone other than Kobe who is willing and able to create his own offense (effectively), Jefferson does that better than someone like Gerald Wallace and is right on par with someone like Ron Artest (if not better than him at creating his own offense as well).

You underestimate Gerald Wallace & Ron Artest and overestimate Richard Jefferson in their ability to create their own offense. Both the former guys guys (in different ways from one another) are some of the better players in the league in scoring by creating their own offense. I believe Wallace % of assisted scores is only 58% (comparable to VC) while Artest is something insane like 38% (which is also negative showing he doesn't play great off the ball and is a blackhole on offense). RJ on the other hand scores at a 77% or so assisted rate.

Gerald Wallace has that speed & athleticism (yes even more than RJ) to break down his man and get to the lane and finish or draw a foul at a consistent rate, while Artest uses his strength to post opposing players or uses an awkward but effective herky jerky dribble to bully his way to the paint. RJ on the other hand doesn't have the handles or explosive first step of Wallace and doesn't use his great body like Artest does so he is really not a great one-on-one player. RJ like Artest also has a tendency to sometimes hold the ball too long to plan out his move which allows defense to read & react too easily.

What RJ is great at though is a) creating contact/drawing fouls , b) running the floor to create fastbreak opportunities (that is one of the reasons his rebound #'s are so low for a SF - it's by design, c) making himself available for scoring opportunities in full court or half court scenario's which is why excels with a great passer like Kidd.

All that being said I do think RJ is a nice fit for the Lakers because he really doesn't need plays run for him (other than this year) to get 'his' so he would fit with Kobe/Gasol/Bynum who will need their shots. I also believe despite the awful defense this year RJ is very capable of being an above average SF defender. This year his defense took a hit because the *cough* "motion offense" put more burden on RJ to handle the ball & to score. Now with the Lakers as possible 3rd/4th option on offense he will have more energy/legs to burn on Defense and the frontcourt of Gasol/Bynum would also erase more mistakes then the Nets who outside of SWat for 1/2 year had no intimidating paint presence on D.

At the end of the day though RJ is a lifelong Net and I don't know if Odom really improves this team, so I prefer to keep RJ but I understand most of this talk is based on one team (Lakers) trying to get over the hump while the other (Nets) may be trying to get expiring contracts.

CITYOFANGELSX3 · Post #54 » by **CITYOFANGELSX3** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:08 pm

mack69 wrote:
Gerald3Wallace wrote:id rather trade odom for artest

That is the direction where lakers should be going in. They need hard nose defender!!!!!!!!

How about a 3 way then? Odom to NJ, RJ to the queens and artest to LA.

Jajwanda · Post #55 » by **Jajwanda** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:06 pm

The previous review of RJ on the Lakers is about the best thing I've seen. It really reflects what R.J. could contribute to the Lakers.

His scoring will go down to 17-18 ppg, his 3 pt percentage will go up to 42% (triangle does that), assists will go up etc etc...

Don't worry about R.J. and his need for the ball. Odom needs it as well.

Adam1221 · Post #56 » by **Adam1221** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:46 pm

RJ is the better overall player but for us Odoom actually has more value because RJ's assets are almost identical to Vince's.

Serpo · Post #57 » by **Serpo** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:35 am

I think RJ's better then Odom but his contract is too big for the Lakers to take . It's not terrible but Odom expires next year where Bynum's in place for his extension . I doubt the Lakers want another relativly big long term commitment with their supposed future franchise player up for big money .

kamaze · Post #58 » by **kamaze** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:06 am

[quote="MrDollarBills]
I agree, he is pretty good when he decides to actually play like he wants to be out on the court. If the way he's been playing in the NBA Finals is any indication, that dude is soft. I don't even think Lamar Odom deserves to be mentioned in the same breath with Carter, as much crap as people, myself included, have given VC over the years the guy is a super hero compared to Lamar Odom, who looks visably intimidated by Kevin Garnett.

To be fair though, Odom in the current series looks like Carter did when he was shut down by Sasha Pavlovic in the 2nd rd last year, but at least Carter wasn't getting single covered.[/quote]

The way I see it Odom's the definition of a finesse player however he's far from soft just out of position playing power forward. He was a point guard for years until he sprouted up to 6'10.
Pau Gasol aka Charmin now he's soft.

As far as my Vince Carter for Odom talk it's a salary move VC is obviously far superior.
Tomayto Tomahto.

NetsForce · Post #59 » by **NetsForce** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:17 pm

halfHAVOC wrote:
NetsForce wrote:I actually think Jefferson is a perfect fit for the Lakers. The Lakers need someone other than Kobe who is willing and able to create his own offense (effectively), Jefferson does that better than someone like Gerald Wallace and is right on par with someone like Ron Artest (if not better than him at creating his own offense as well).

they have enough offense, RJ is really useless unless hes scoring so..................you basically are trying to add someone who needs touches when they have bynum back , and you still dont improve on defense.

It's not about adding more offense it's about adding the right kind of offense. You saw what happened in the finals when the Celtics were able to key in on Bryant and keep him out of the lane, no one else on the Lakers could create their own shot, or attack the basket with authority...

If you give Jefferson that extra room to operate you negate any advantage you would have gotten by playing him straight up and trying to exploit his sometimes-shaky handle, and as far as attacking the basket and getting to the free throw line goes I think we can all agree that Jefferson does that with the best of them...

Also @ Birthofthecool

I think you're overrated Gerald Wallace here he puts up nice numbers but has questionable offensive IQ. One of the reasons why he gets hurt so much is that he forces the issue too much leading to many bad possessions for his team.

The Lakers would be best off with:

1. Artest
2. Jefferson / Odom
3. Jefferson / Odom
4. Wallace

In that order...

Preludepunk27 · Post #60 » by **Preludepunk27** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:18 pm

NetsForce wrote:
halfHAVOC wrote:
NetsForce wrote:I actually think Jefferson is a perfect fit for the Lakers. The Lakers need someone other than Kobe who is willing and able to create his own offense (effectively), Jefferson does that better than someone like Gerald Wallace and is right on par with someone like Ron Artest (if not better than him at creating his own offense as well).

they have enough offense, RJ is really useless unless hes scoring so..................you basically are trying to add someone who needs touches when they have bynum back , and you still dont improve on defense.

It's not about adding more offense it's about adding the right kind of offense. You saw what happened in the finals when the Celtics were able to key in on Bryant and keep him out of the lane, no one else on the Lakers could create their own shot, or attack the basket with authority...

If you give Jefferson that extra room to operate you negate any advantage you would have gotten by playing him straight up and trying to exploit his sometimes-shaky handle, and as far as attacking the basket and getting to the free throw line goes I think we can all agree that Jefferson does that with the best of them...

Also @ Birthofthecool

I think you're overrated Gerald Wallace here he puts up nice numbers but has questionable offensive IQ. One of the reasons why he gets hurt so much is that he forces the issue too much leading to many bad possessions for his team.

Honestly, Gerald Wallace is one of my favorite players in the league, but I always wonder what his stats would look like on a better team. With that said, I'd love to have him on the Nets. Too bad he's a BYC player right now and it's hard to move those deals.

The Lakers would be best off with:

1. Artest
2. Jefferson / Odom
3. Jefferson / Odom
4. Wallace

In that order...