Terry Porter's New Assistant Coaches
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Re: Terry Porter's New Assistant Coaches
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Re: Terry Porter's New Assistant Coaches
Actually, Longley would be a good guy to teach Amare how to be a better passer and how to work in a halfcourt set...
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Re: Terry Porter's New Assistant Coaches
ma_falaa_50 wrote:it seems to me that the buddy is in full affect with these hirings. Paul SIlas CALLED them for crying out loud. What else can a man do to get some due respect? I think Silas has coached LBJ so dealing with talented players is not a problem. what has cartwright done? just because he has a ring doesnt mean he is a good coach. If that was the case Lc Longley would be a good coach too.
Cartwright has done a pretty good job as a big man coach. In Chicago, he helped coach Elton Brand. He also has done an ok job in NJ with Kristic, Boone, and Williams. Granted I wanted Silas too. How do we know if Porter wanted Silas on his staff though?
I assume Igor Kokoskov's role will be to be the skills coach. I wonder what Dan Majerle's role will be.
Re: Terry Porter's New Assistant Coaches
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Re: Terry Porter's New Assistant Coaches
Actually yeah, just to second Sarlonus, Cartwright didn't do bad by Chandler, Curry, Brand or Krstic.
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I don't want to bag on Silas cause he seems like a good guy and had a great career; But, Bob HIll, of the Boston Globe (who saw the great teams Russell played on) made a comment that stuck out to me on Outside the Lines the other day, and that was that you can't really compare Russell to anyone of today's game because the talent level and athleticism has really improved in the NBA in a way that makes it unrealistic to make valid comparisons.
Silas as good as he was would not be making an all nba defensive team if he played over the past 20 years nor would he be grabbing as many rebounds. The level of play in the NBA has far exceeded anything he thought possible when he was a player and therefore making comments about his individual accomplishments and how they could help him coach Amare. Cartwright actually laced up his sneakers during my lifetime and competed against some of the most amazing players of all time. And he has done an admirable job in developing talent with Brand and Chandler to name the best. This is where my point is; who has Silas developed as a coach? And please, don't say Barkley, who had his best years in Phili but got no recognition until he came here.
And more importantly, I am sick and tired of all the what ifs around here! What if we had kept Rondo and resigned House. What if we had draft Iggy and resigned Joe Johnson? What if we had Silas to mentor Amare?
I for one, am looking at the glass half full rather than half empty!!!
GO SUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Silas as good as he was would not be making an all nba defensive team if he played over the past 20 years nor would he be grabbing as many rebounds. The level of play in the NBA has far exceeded anything he thought possible when he was a player and therefore making comments about his individual accomplishments and how they could help him coach Amare. Cartwright actually laced up his sneakers during my lifetime and competed against some of the most amazing players of all time. And he has done an admirable job in developing talent with Brand and Chandler to name the best. This is where my point is; who has Silas developed as a coach? And please, don't say Barkley, who had his best years in Phili but got no recognition until he came here.
And more importantly, I am sick and tired of all the what ifs around here! What if we had kept Rondo and resigned House. What if we had draft Iggy and resigned Joe Johnson? What if we had Silas to mentor Amare?
I for one, am looking at the glass half full rather than half empty!!!
GO SUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Terry Porter's New Assistant Coaches
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Re: Terry Porter's New Assistant Coaches
If any of you have read Sacred Hoops by Phil Jackson, you wouldv'e came away impressed with Cartwright. Granted it was written a dozen years ago, but he carried a ton of respect in that locker room and called out Pippen after Scottie refused to check in with 2 seconds to go in that playoff game. And Jackson talked a bit about how their defense was so good back then mainly because of Cartwright. Who knows why Silas wasn't hired, but overall I really like the staff we put together.
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I like the new staff as well; but, like most people, I am also a little disappointed that Silas isn't going to be one of the assistant coaches.
I think Cartwright will really help Shaq and Amare.
I think Cartwright will really help Shaq and Amare.
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I always had mixed feelings about Cartwright as a head coach. He's nothing great, but he's also not a bag of **** like Boylan. He has value as an assistant coach, and I think that he'll be able to connect with Shaq, who may have problems with a fairly unproven guy like Porter. As a player, Cartwright was extremely respected by his teammates. He was affectionately called "teach" and wasn't afraid to stand up to guys like Jordan.
I was never really impressed by his coaching, but in all fairness he wasn't blessed with the greatest of rosters. Curry lead the league in FG% while playing for Cartwright and improved statistically every season. Back then he looked extremely promising, and GMs even voted him as being the guy most likely to break out the following season (I think the one that Cartwright got fired in). Chandler even looked slightly better offensively under Cartwright and took a step back while playing for Skiles. Still, I wonder if Cartwright hurt these guys more than he helped them. He was a players coach, and really didn't instill a work-ethic into either of those two. Both were pretty damn lazy, and Curry was always overweight (he got into great shape under Skiles) and Chandler never added any muscle while playing for Cartwright. I also felt like he didn't really understand how to use guards well. Crawford made major improvements under Skiles, and Jay Williams just seemed like he was being held back. Hinrich looked like complete garbage in the twelve or so games that he played for under Cartwright. He almost immediately improved once Skiles came. During his second season as HC he got the Bulls to finish the season on an impressive run. I think they even had a winning record at home. That late surge gave the Bulls and their fans a ton of optimism about the future and almost all of the fans thought that we'd be a lock to make the playoffs the next season. Instead Williams' career was destroyed, Pippen was constantly injured, Rose struggled and the Bulls underachieved. The biggest thing that bugged me about him was his man-crush for Trenton Hassell. I've never seen a worse starter in my life...but I guess most coaches have that random player that plays way too much.
One thing is for certain...players generally liked him and seemed genuinely sad when he was fired. I've always been interested in seeing how he'd do as a headcoach with a roster of established players. He's no Silas, but you could do far worse.
I was never really impressed by his coaching, but in all fairness he wasn't blessed with the greatest of rosters. Curry lead the league in FG% while playing for Cartwright and improved statistically every season. Back then he looked extremely promising, and GMs even voted him as being the guy most likely to break out the following season (I think the one that Cartwright got fired in). Chandler even looked slightly better offensively under Cartwright and took a step back while playing for Skiles. Still, I wonder if Cartwright hurt these guys more than he helped them. He was a players coach, and really didn't instill a work-ethic into either of those two. Both were pretty damn lazy, and Curry was always overweight (he got into great shape under Skiles) and Chandler never added any muscle while playing for Cartwright. I also felt like he didn't really understand how to use guards well. Crawford made major improvements under Skiles, and Jay Williams just seemed like he was being held back. Hinrich looked like complete garbage in the twelve or so games that he played for under Cartwright. He almost immediately improved once Skiles came. During his second season as HC he got the Bulls to finish the season on an impressive run. I think they even had a winning record at home. That late surge gave the Bulls and their fans a ton of optimism about the future and almost all of the fans thought that we'd be a lock to make the playoffs the next season. Instead Williams' career was destroyed, Pippen was constantly injured, Rose struggled and the Bulls underachieved. The biggest thing that bugged me about him was his man-crush for Trenton Hassell. I've never seen a worse starter in my life...but I guess most coaches have that random player that plays way too much.
One thing is for certain...players generally liked him and seemed genuinely sad when he was fired. I've always been interested in seeing how he'd do as a headcoach with a roster of established players. He's no Silas, but you could do far worse.
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walkingart wrote:Silas as good as he was would not be making an all nba defensive team if he played over the past 20 years nor would he be grabbing as many rebounds. The level of play in the NBA has far exceeded anything he thought possible when he was a player and therefore making comments about his individual accomplishments and how they could help him coach Amare. Cartwright actually laced up his sneakers during my lifetime and competed against some of the most amazing players of all time. And he has done an admirable job in developing talent with Brand and Chandler to name the best. This is where my point is; who has Silas developed as a coach? And please, don't say Barkley, who had his best years in Phili but got no recognition until he came here.
This is recycled trash with no basis to it. Silas was always a good defender because of his strength, how he used his feet and his hands and the hustle (on the glass, since defensive rebounding is part of defense). He also rotated well.
You're out of your mind if you think he wouldn't be recognized for his defensive prowess in the contemporary period. Would he have rebounded as much? Maybe... you're talking about someone in the Ben Wallace/Dennis Rodman/Reggie Evans specialist role and he had some physical traits and good anticipation skills going for him.
Moreover, why are you talking about Philly? Silas was an assistant there for Barkley's last two seasons in Phoenix but didn't have any other exposure to him. He did his assistant work with the Hornets and the Nets, and a little with the Knicks. He never coached or player for the Sixers.
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tsherkin wrote:This is recycled trash with no basis to it. Silas was always a good defender because of his strength, how he used his feet and his hands and the hustle (on the glass, since defensive rebounding is part of defense). He also rotated well.
Moreover, why are you talking about Philly? Silas was an assistant there for Barkley's last two seasons in Phoenix but didn't have any other exposure to him. He did his assistant work with the Hornets and the Nets, and a little with the Knicks. He never coached or player for the Sixers.
First, as the son of a former California HS football player of the year, College All American, and NFL draftee who had his professional career ended by a knee injury that would have seen him back on the field in 6 months if it happened today, I am more then knowledgable on the athlete of yesteryear and how they compare to modern day athletes. If you ask any professional athlete of the sixties or seventies who is not a pompous arse, who has any semblance of intelligence that is not clouded by his own ego, if the modern day athlete is superior to him; the answer would be yes. If Silas ability to defend and rebound was based on his strength, his footwork, and hustle; then he would be undoubtably at a disadvantage for the average NBA player of today is stronger and faster then the elite players of Silas day. Could I say without a doubt that Silas would not amount to the same achievements if he played in the nineties or today, NO. But, I can believe that based on all the facts and knowledge available to me, that it is highly unlikely, YES.
Secondly, the question I asked was, who has Silas helped developed as a coach? If you had read past posts on Silas and his qualifications, you would have seen the mention of Barkley, even though Barkley had his best seasons prior to coming to Phoenix. That is my point in mentioning Philly, never did I ascertain that Silas coached him there. However, in all honesty, if he had, I would not have known it. For there was no internet or nearly the same amount of television coverage there is today in the 80's.
Therefore, you can disregard my opinion and that is fine; for it truly doesn't matter to me. Hell, you can label my opinions as garbage if you like. But if my question goes unanswered, then it is an empty opinion that you hold. So, I will ask again.
Who has Silas directly developed as a coach, that we can make therefore make assumptions that he is the best choice to help develop Amare?
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walkingart wrote:
First, as the son of a former California HS football player of the year, College All American, and NFL draftee who had his professional career ended by a knee injury that would have seen him back on the field in 6 months if it happened today, I am more then knowledgable on the athlete of yesteryear and how they compare to modern day athletes.
I don't actually think that is a valid qualification of any kind. It gives you perspective on one guy, sure, but that's not especially relevant, even if he routinely discussed his competition.
. If you ask any professional athlete of the sixties or seventies who is not a pompous arse, who has any semblance of intelligence that is not clouded by his own ego, if the modern day athlete is superior to him; the answer would be yes.
Yes but research commonly shows that the major differences between eras this close come from the differences in nutrition, training regimens, medical technology, etc, etc. So if you were to take an athlete from the inferior era and expose him to the kind of tools available to today's athletes, the gap would be closed. This kind of thinking, that there has been a major evolutionary shift in human physical capacity over 3 decades, doesn't make any logical sense.
Admittedly, the style of athletes present in the NBA is different now, there is clearly more of an emphasis on strength rather than speed, which is why there aren't many 220-pound guys at or above 6'10 who do good work inside, but that's a matter of approach to your training regimen rather than an indicator of superiority in the athletes of the contemporary period. The games were faster then, bulk hindered more than it helped.
If Silas ability to defend and rebound was based on his strength, his footwork, and hustle; then he would be undoubtably at a disadvantage for the average NBA player of today is stronger and faster then the elite players of Silas day. Could I say without a doubt that Silas would not amount to the same achievements if he played in the nineties or today, NO. But, I can believe that based on all the facts and knowledge available to me, that it is highly unlikely, YES.
Nope, that's not right. Given that some of the best rebounders of today aren't always especially quick (Boozer, Reggie Evans, Elton Brand, Al Horford, Ilgauskas, Jason Maxiell, Kaman, Bynum, Jefferson, Randolph, Duncan...), this point holds little water.
Most of the guys who rebound well in the NBA are bigger guys who can carve out space near the rim, anticipate the location of the board and then go and get it because they've put their man on their back and have the space to move unhindered.
I'll give you that the difference in pace between his day and now means that his rebounding numbers would be deflated some, sure, but not on the basis of any major difference in athleticism. We're not talking about Wes Unseld, here, but even he would do very well in the modern NBA on the basis of technique and power.
You're disregarding a guy who was an excellent player in his own era and projects to similar success in this one. He was a two-time All-Star and a 5-time member of the All-Defensive teams, led the league in offensive rebounds one year... He was a dominant rebounder in college, he was a great rebounder in the 60s and 70s throughout his career... You're dismissing this guy with no cause other than the phantom value of the "increase" in athletic ability in the modern NBA, when you're really misinterpreting a shift in focus that still wouldn't affect him.
How many times has Carlos Boozer averaged 10+ rpg now? Three times.
How many times did Karl Malone do it? 9 in a row and 10 overall. He had athleticism about him but he did it mostly with positioning, anticipation and power... just like Silas. And he was 6'9.
How tall is he? How tall is Ben Wallace? How tall is Reggie Evans?
From 89-90 forward, did you know that of the 13 guys who have averaged 10+ rpg between then and the end of the 06-07 season, 5 of them have been 6'9 or under? You get another two if you extend that out to the top 20 rebounders and as you go down, you start to hit Tyrone Hill, Anthony Mason, Antoine Walker, Jayson Williams, Larry Johnson, Clarence Weatherspoon, Antonio Davis, Popeye Jones, Brian Grant, Kurt Thomas...
There are TONS of guys who didn't evidence great athleticism (and I wasn't even saying that Silas didn't have good mobility) and who primarily used the traits named above to get their boards and did so quite well.
Secondly, the question I asked was, who has Silas helped developed as a coach? If you had read past posts on Silas and his qualifications, you would have seen the mention of Barkley, even though Barkley had his best seasons prior to coming to Phoenix. That is my point in mentioning Philly, never did I ascertain that Silas coached him there. However, in all honesty, if he had, I would not have known it. For there was no internet or nearly the same amount of television coverage there is today in the 80's.
I was asking why you brought up Barkley, because Silas only coached him for a season in Phoenix in the latter half of his career.
Therefore, you can disregard my opinion and that is fine; for it truly doesn't matter to me. Hell, you can label my opinions as garbage if you like. But if my question goes unanswered, then it is an empty opinion that you hold. So, I will ask again.
Who has Silas directly developed as a coach, that we can make therefore make assumptions that he is the best choice to help develop Amare?
He did some good work with Lebron and Baron Davis (first four seasons, wasn't a starter as a rookie), he coached Tom Chambers in the first two seasons of his career, he coached Brad Miller in his first two seasons in the league (as a Hornet), first three seasons out of Jamaal Magloire... I'm skipping a lot of the wing talent to try and emphasize bigger guys (obviously aside from LBJ and BD).
He coached Boozer in his first two years, Drew Gooden's first year...
He's coached a lot of guys who've come in and done well. A couple of those guys were lottery picks and some only started to show what they had under him but he did well by all the guys I named.
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Re: Terry Porter's New Assistant Coaches
Thank you for the respone.
I only have one comment to add, if you really want to see differences in athleticism over the past several decades, the NBA is not the place to go. It is too complacent to say that one guy who is 6'9" and 250 lbs. is just as strong and fast as the next guy of equal size, when in reality one of them will be a superior athlete when tested in drills. You brought up Carlos Boozer who if I remember correctly had excellent strength numbers during the combine as did Horford this past year, which I would say benefited them as much as anything. It is too hard to determine speed and quickness by the human eye. Look at the track and field numbers and then tell me that modern day athletes do not blow away those of the past, although from recent news it may be more of performance enhancing drugs then anything else, only time will tell.
I only have one comment to add, if you really want to see differences in athleticism over the past several decades, the NBA is not the place to go. It is too complacent to say that one guy who is 6'9" and 250 lbs. is just as strong and fast as the next guy of equal size, when in reality one of them will be a superior athlete when tested in drills. You brought up Carlos Boozer who if I remember correctly had excellent strength numbers during the combine as did Horford this past year, which I would say benefited them as much as anything. It is too hard to determine speed and quickness by the human eye. Look at the track and field numbers and then tell me that modern day athletes do not blow away those of the past, although from recent news it may be more of performance enhancing drugs then anything else, only time will tell.
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walkingart wrote:Thank you for the respone.
I only have one comment to add, if you really want to see differences in athleticism over the past several decades, the NBA is not the place to go. It is too complacent to say that one guy who is 6'9" and 250 lbs. is just as strong and fast as the next guy of equal size, when in reality one of them will be a superior athlete when tested in drills. You brought up Carlos Boozer who if I remember correctly had excellent strength numbers during the combine as did Horford this past year, which I would say benefited them as much as anything. It is too hard to determine speed and quickness by the human eye. Look at the track and field numbers and then tell me that modern day athletes do not blow away those of the past, although from recent news it may be more of performance enhancing drugs then anything else, only time will tell.
Track and field is the WORST place to rest your case; aerodynamic materials, differences in shoes, there are too many mitigating factors that change the capacity of a runner. That's an absolutely useless example (no offense, I mean that in the literal sense of utility).
Again, while it is true that there have been stylistic changes in the NBA, most notably weaker perimeter defense on account of rule changes, increases in allowed zone defense and a slower pace, there has not been a fundamental shift in the physical truths of the participants in the game that comes from an evolution in the human genome. It comes from emphasis on the type of players being drafted and the kind of training in which they involve themselves.
To return to our argument, you're trying to say that Paul Silas wouldn't be nearly as effective as he was in his day, but you're not actually correct. If you were, you'd see more examples of guys who couldn't compete over the course of long careers that span eras.
But there are plenty of example of players who played at the end of one decade, through another and sometimes even into the beginning of a third decade. 12-14 years of career will do that if you're drafted at the end of a decade. And yet even as they age, they find ways to compete. Jordan was drafted in '84 but managed to compete, old, injured and out of shape with guys in the early 2000s. Dominique Wilkins was drafted in '82 but was still scoring 26 ppg in the mid-90s in his 30s... and 18 ppg at 37.
Kareem comes to mind. Drafted in '69, played through the 70s and all of the 80s... Won MVPs in the 70s and 80s, a Finals MVP in '85, etc, etc.
Olajuwon? Ewing? Drafted respectively in '84 and '85, they contributed deep into the 90s through a stylistic shift brought about by Chuck Daly and Pat Riley.
Your argument is one that is brought up regularly... and continuously put back in its place. There is no legitimate evidence to suggest that evolution has begun to create better athletes but there is every evidence that technological developments have begun to unlock the existing human potential much more readily than in years past.