We lose Josh Smith, We will lose Al Horford (in a few years)

Skar · Post #1 » by **Skar** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:02 pm

Josh our franchise player, we need him and this team is nothing without him, this team is already bad at defense so if we wind up trading him, it would be 10x worse then before.

If we let Josh Smith walk or get traded, same thing will happen with Al Horford when his contract comes to an end. I guess the owners don't care as long as they make profit as always.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #2 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:21 pm

That's a very interesting theory considering free agency hasn't even started yet.

If players like Okafor,Deng,Iguodala sign and the Hawks have still yet to work something out with Josh(which is very possible considering how dumb our owners are)...then it's time to worry.

Post #3 » by **HMFFL** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:15 am

Skar wrote:Josh our franchise player, we need him and this team is nothing without him, this team is already bad at defense so if we wind up trading him, it would be 10x worse then before.

If we let Josh Smith walk or get traded, same thing will happen with Al Horford when his contract comes to an end. I guess the owners don't care as long as they make profit as always.

Stop stressing. Josh will be a Hawk next season and for many years after.

Now, I would like to point out a couple things about your post, because I don't view Josh as our franchise player. His offensive game is still developing and yet his defense still has room for improvement. Joe Johnson is our franchise player and he deserve his due.

I don't see the connection between Al Horford and Josh Smith right now. Al has many years before he's even due an extension. He'd probably prefer to be the starting 4, but he's a team player, and he's holding down the 5 for this team.

Why even point the finger at the ownership when we don't know how much money their willing to match? You even mention profit...PROFIT? I saw an arena that was empty before the playoffs, so the fans need to do their part if they want the Hawks to continue to be a playoff contender. There won't be any cap space after the upcoming off-season.

So, when the ASG resigns Josh Smith, will you criticize Josh for the amount of money it took to keep him here? Or, will you just continue to point the finger at the ownership?

evildallas · Post #4 » by **evildallas** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:34 am

Another thing to consider is that the ASG is being very careful in their attempt to maintain the momentum experienced in the playoffs. It's why they resigned Woodson. Not resigning Josh Smith would be throwing the hope of that environment out the window. There are few S&T deals out there that would net the team the kind of excitement that Josh Smith continuing to develop would provide.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #5 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:55 am

evildallas wrote:Another thing to consider is that the ASG is being very careful in their attempt to maintain the momentum experienced in the playoffs. It's why they resigned Woodson. Not resigning Josh Smith would be throwing the hope of that environment out the window. There are few S&T deals out there that would net the team the kind of excitement that Josh Smith continuing to develop would provide.

Exactly. It's pretty clear that Sund is going to "stay with the plan"(what he said after he took the job). Anyone who has been paying attention can/ could see that Woodson was coming back(which has been obvious since Feburary),the Hawks will probably have the same 8 man rotation as last year,and that Sund isn't even considering trading for a draft pick. Sund is like the anti Kevin Pritchard. This off-season should be pretty predictable and boring.

conleyorbust · Post #6 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:31 pm

HMFFL wrote:
Skar wrote:Josh our franchise player, we need him and this team is nothing without him, this team is already bad at defense so if we wind up trading him, it would be 10x worse then before.

If we let Josh Smith walk or get traded, same thing will happen with Al Horford when his contract comes to an end. I guess the owners don't care as long as they make profit as always.

Stop stressing. Josh will be a Hawk next season and for many years after.

Now, I would like to point out a couple things about your post, because I don't view Josh as our franchise player. His offensive game is still developing and yet his defense still has room for improvement. Joe Johnson is our franchise player and he deserve his due.

I don't see the connection between Al Horford and Josh Smith right now. Al has many years before he's even due an extension. He'd probably prefer to be the starting 4, but he's a team player, and he's holding down the 5 for this team.

Why even point the finger at the ownership when we don't know how much money their willing to match? You even mention profit...PROFIT? I saw an arena that was empty before the playoffs, so the fans need to do their part if they want the Hawks to continue to be a playoff contender. There won't be any cap space after the upcoming off-season.

So, when the ASG resigns Josh Smith, will you criticize Josh for the amount of money it took to keep him here? Or, will you just continue to point the finger at the ownership?

In a lot of ways they are both franchise players, or neither is...

I guess it depends on how you define that term. In terms of external awareness it seems fairly even. Most people who watched the Hawks wins against the Celtics talk about Josh and Joe and don't really know anyone else on the Hawks. In terms of impact on the game, Smith has a huge impact on D and is our second best offensive player even though he has a lot of work to do there - Joe has a huge impact on offense and is a solid defensive player but we don't play him on elite scorers most of the time. Its pretty even statistically.

I guess Joe is the franchise player because he makes the most money but he's not the leader of the team or anything.

killbuckner · Post #7 » by **killbuckner** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:55 pm

Josh Smith is pretty clearly the face of the franchise.

JoshB914 · Post #8 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:50 pm

Smoove is our franchise guy, assuming we lock him up this summer.

Skar · Post #9 » by **Skar** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:40 am

Rumor: Hawks may trade Josh Smith to DET for R.Wallace

HoopsGuru25 · Post #10 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:42 am

Didn't we already trade Rasheed for Josh Smith 4 years ago?

evildallas · Post #11 » by **evildallas** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:57 am

Skar wrote:Rumor: Hawks may trade Josh Smith to DET for R.Wallace

That's a weak rumor. Rasheed Wallace trade value is not very high. He's got great talent, but he's unpredictable (maybe a little insane), will be 34 at the start of the season and is expiring. Rasheed is valuable for a team looking to undo a contract they've already given out (like Denver with Martin or Nene). He'd have to have something included with him to just a S&T like that. Then we would have to worry about salary matching. Whomever trades for Rasheed has the issue of resigning him. He could decide the money's not good enough and just retire (like I said unpredictable). I only see a few teams willing to chance him and they would still want more included in any deal.

Skar · Post #12 » by **Skar** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:00 am

That is a weak rumor but the rumor about Josh Smith going to DET is heating up.

SendEm · Post #13 » by **SendEm** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:37 am

Horford and Joe Johnson are the best players on the team. Management should be smart and build a traditional team with Horford at PF, Joe Johnson at SG and bring in a center and a pg. Trading Josh Smith and Marvin Williams while starting Josh Childress would be the best bet for the Hawks moving forward. It's best to move Josh Smith right now while his value is high because he is nothing but an athletic tweener with low basketball skill and Marvin Williams looks like a bench player.

The Hawks should bring in a guy like Baron Davis for the PG position and Noah at center. Trading something like Josh Smith to Chicago and Marvin Williams and Bibby to Golden State would be a basis for getting it done.
Noah
Horford
Childress
Joe Johnson
Baron Davis
^^^ That's a better more traditional team moving forward 2 years from now than this:
Horford
Josh Smith
Marvin Williams
Joe Johnson
Acie

Also the Chicago trade would probably bring back a guy like Nocioni or Tyrus.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #14 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:10 am

Trading Josh Smith?: There has been a lot of speculation about the future of Josh Smith in Atlanta so let's clear up the misconceptions. The Hawks have every intention of paying Josh Smith, the question becomes the terms. Will Josh take a full boat deal or look to have an exit at some point in the next three years? Informed Hawks sources laughed off the notion being circulated that the Hawks are in some way squeamish about an $11 million payday for Josh. The Hawks understand Josh's value, and know full well that if they play games with Josh he is a very attractive free agent with options. That said the team does intend to go through the free agent process, knowing that they can match and beat any offer given to Josh in the open market as he is still a restricted free agent, but that doesn't mean a team like Philadelphia couldn't offer a very front loaded deal to Josh, much like Atlanta did to get Joe Johnson. There is also legitimacy to the idea that inside the next two years extension discussions will also need to take place with Al Horford and likely Joe Johnson (who has an early termination option). There is little doubt the Hawks and Josh Smith reach a deal, but will that deal be bigger than the $55 million it would have cost the team last summer?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9187

evildallas · Post #15 » by **evildallas** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:43 am

Joe Johnson is already a max player and it isn't a ETO. His contract was for 5 years which end after 2009/2010. At that time, Joe will be 29 and his demands will be determined by how he is playing not Josh Smith. Al Horford could sign an extension that summer, but in 2010/2011 he'll be making 5.4M in his last year under the rookie scale.

The breakdown for negotiations is this:
2008 Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Early extension candidate Marvin Williams, Possible long term negotiation with Mike Bibby
2009 Marvin Williams, Mike Bibby
2010 Joe Johnson, Early extension candidates Al Horford and Acie Law
2011 Al Horford, Acie Law
2012 No one at this time as we have no picks.
2013 In theory Josh Smith and Josh Childress

By having the flop pick of Shelden Williams it happens to leave 2010 with only Joe Johnson expecting a new payday. Negotiations often happen a year early, but it's when you start writing the checks that really matters. Josh Smith's contract will be over half way done before Al Horford cashes a check for more than rookie scale. Worrying about one affecting the other is just b.s. that writer thinks up. The one player that Josh Smith's contract could affect the demands of is Marvin Williams, but it is most likely going to be a repeat scenario of letting the market dictate what he is paid.

old rem · Post #16 » by **old rem** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:24 pm

evildallas wrote:
Skar wrote:Rumor: Hawks may trade Josh Smith to DET for R.Wallace

That's a weak rumor. Rasheed Wallace trade value is not very high. He's got great talent, but he's unpredictable (maybe a little insane), will be 34 at the start of the season and is expiring. Rasheed is valuable for a team looking to undo a contract they've already given out (like Denver with Martin or Nene). He'd have to have something included with him to just a S&T like that. Then we would have to worry about salary matching. Whomever trades for Rasheed has the issue of resigning him. He could decide the money's not good enough and just retire (like I said unpredictable). I only see a few teams willing to chance him and they would still want more included in any deal.

That is hardly even fit to call a rumor. What Sheed was 3-4 years ago is of no use to ATL,and what he is gonna be isn't worth Childress. Det is peddling because he's an ageing mega $ guy who scored 12 1/3 per,has become a chucker,always was a headcase. Wallace still has a rep for D...but more and more he takes a few plays off and just floats.

Kman25 · Post #17 » by **Kman25** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:24 am

HMFFL wrote:
Skar wrote:Josh our franchise player, we need him and this team is nothing without him, this team is already bad at defense so if we wind up trading him, it would be 10x worse then before.

If we let Josh Smith walk or get traded, same thing will happen with Al Horford when his contract comes to an end. I guess the owners don't care as long as they make profit as always.

Stop stressing. Josh will be a Hawk next season and for many years after.

Now, I would like to point out a couple things about your post, because I don't view Josh as our franchise player. His offensive game is still developing and yet his defense still has room for improvement. Joe Johnson is our franchise player and he deserve his due.

I don't see the connection between Al Horford and Josh Smith right now. Al has many years before he's even due an extension. He'd probably prefer to be the starting 4, but he's a team player, and he's holding down the 5 for this team.

Why even point the finger at the ownership when we don't know how much money their willing to match? You even mention profit...PROFIT? I saw an arena that was empty before the playoffs, so the fans need to do their part if they want the Hawks to continue to be a playoff contender. There won't be any cap space after the upcoming off-season.

So, when the ASG resigns Josh Smith, will you criticize Josh for the amount of money it took to keep him here? Or, will you just continue to point the finger at the ownership?

He is going to Philly