Official Josh Smith Matched Thread

[Hawks]

Which ever team they run to in order to help them get further under the cap. They will have give up something in order for that team to help them. I am just wondering do they want Smoove so badly that they are willing to hurt the future of their team to get him.

I am saying this into response to the rumors of the 76ers trying to frontload Smoove contract the way we frontloaded JJ contract. I think they would have to go near that to even get the Hawks to balk at not matching.

[killbuckner]

No one knows for sure what the ASG cash situation is during the belkin mess. I have always said that if I were the sixers I would do the max offer for smith with the max signing bonus just to find out since coming up with that many million dollars in cash with just 7 days notice could cause some pain.. But the Bibby trade sure indicated that the ASG were willing to spend some money, it would have been pretty ridiculous to make that trade if it meant that they wouldn't match the offer to smith. And part of getting an RFA is being willing to overpay, but its just not clear at this point how much a max contract is really overpaying him. Sure its more than you WANT to pay, but that isn't the same thing.

[SendEm]

LOL I'm laughing at Josh Smith and max contract being mentioned within the same realm of conversation. The Sixers will not offer this SF such a deal. The Sixers already have two young SF's in Iggy and Thad. We don't need a third SF that's not a good outside shooter or penetrator off of the dribble.

Oh yeah, Josh Smith at PF is just a gimmick that will NEVER win a CHIP.

[killbuckner]

Atlanta fans hope you are right that philly doesn't want Smith- the Hawks will get him at bargain rates then.

[Harry10]

Phily can offer Iggy 15M and Smoove 15M and just let Louis walk

but if it comes down to that, then Hawks should just match and let Chil walk.

[killbuckner]

Harry- you really have no clue how the cap works.

[Hood President]

LOL I'm laughing at Josh Smith and max contract being mentioned within the same realm of conversation. The Sixers will not offer this SF such a deal. The Sixers already have two young SF's in Iggy and Thad. We don't need a third SF that's not a good outside shooter or penetrator off of the dribble.

Oh yeah, Josh Smith at PF is just a gimmick that will NEVER win a CHIP.

another josh smith hater.

[SendEm]

True if The Sixers renounce the rights to Louis Williams we will have more free agent money than the widely reported $11 million. I don't know how much more, maybe $2 million at most...But a contract that starts off at $11 million the first season then increases 8% each season is a huge contract. Aren't there reports that Atlanta doesn't want to spend more than $11 million per season average on Josh Smith? Huge diffrenet from a contract that starts out at $11 million...

Boy I hope the Sixers don't sign this tweener for that huge amount of money. We could do so much better in free agency either now or in the future. That money would be a total waste on this tweener.

[evildallas]

I am fascinated how fans of other teams seem to say that Josh Smith is a SF and Atlanta Hawks fans think of him as a PF. I assume this is a factor of the number of Hawks games actually seen and the number of Josh Smith missed three pointers experienced first hand.

He can play both positions and does, but realistically he is a better PF now. Defensively playing PF keeps him closer to the basket so he can protect the basket as a help defender. He even plays some C defensively depending on matchups. Offensively, he doesn't have reliable 3 pt range so having he spot up on the perimeter as a SF is silly. We still seem to do that quite a bit to try and get the defense out of position by have Childress take his man underneath which is why Childress has almost as many offensive rebounds as defensive rebounds. The problem with the strategy is that the defender can play off Smith daring him to launch a 3 or long 2. If Woodson continues to employ this offensive strategy Josh is going to have to improve his long range shooting. Conversely, if we can acquire another 3 pt shooter to stretch the defense then Josh Smith could actually play on the block and use his athleticism to be more of an offensive rebounding force.

[High 5]

They wouldn't be sacrificing their future, they'd be getting a future.

[dms269]

I am fascinated how fans of other teams seem to say that Josh Smith is a SF and Atlanta Hawks fans think of him as a PF. I assume this is a factor of the number of Hawks games actually seen and the number of Josh Smith missed three pointers experienced first hand.

He can play both positions and does, but realistically he is a better PF now. Defensively playing PF keeps him closer to the basket so he can protect the basket as a help defender. He even plays some C defensively depending on matchups. Offensively, he doesn't have reliable 3 pt range so having he spot up on the perimeter as a SF is silly. We still seem to do that quite a bit to try and get the defense out of position by have Childress take his man underneath which is why Childress has almost as many offensive rebounds as defensive rebounds. The problem with the strategy is that the defender can play off Smith daring him to launch a 3 or long 2. If Woodson continues to employ this offensive strategy Josh is going to have to improve his long range shooting. Conversely, if we can acquire another 3 pt shooter to stretch the defense then Josh Smith could actually play on the block and use his athleticism to be more of an offensive rebounding force.

There is no sue in arguing with him. Atlanta fans and Philly fans proved himwrong in a Philly thread yet he continue to say the stuff about Josh beign a tweener and how he sucks as a player since he doesn't have a jumpshot and no post moves. ect.....

[SendEm]

I am fascinated how fans of other teams seem to say that Josh Smith is a SF and Atlanta Hawks fans think of him as a PF. I assume this is a factor of the number of Hawks games actually seen and the number of Josh Smith missed three pointers experienced first hand.

I believe it is a product of the Atlanta fans who believe that J. Smith is a bonafide PF not knowing what a true PF is. See in other cities they have PF's in the HOF already. Like Charles Barkley and Moses Malone so their is a working knowledge of what a PF should play like.
Your team's PF is currently playing center.
The guy currently playing PF for your team is a big strong SF that can block weakside shots while getting beat on the boards by his PF opposition on a nightly basis as 82games.com reveals. Atlanta hides this player at PF because his SF skills are VERY weak and there currently isn't a better frontcourt option on the roster because they drafted a true PF in S. Williams that turned out to be a complete NBA bust.

[High 5]

Keep laughing, Josh Smith will be a better player than anyone Philly has for a long time. Maybe Atlanta will get some national games so you can finally watch him destroy someone other than your Sixers. Lord knows you haven't seen him play more than a few games judging from your ridiculous posts.

[evildallas]

I am fascinated how fans of other teams seem to say that Josh Smith is a SF and Atlanta Hawks fans think of him as a PF. I assume this is a factor of the number of Hawks games actually seen and the number of Josh Smith missed three pointers experienced first hand.

I believe it is a product of the Atlanta fans who believe that J. Smith is a bonafide PF not knowing what a true PF is. See in other cities they have PF's in the HOF already. Like Charles Barkley and Moses Malone so their is a working knowledge of what a PF should play like.
Your team's PF is currently playing center.
The guy currently playing PF for your team is a big strong SF that can block weakside shots while getting beat on the boards by his PF opposition on a nightly basis as 82games.com reveals. Atlanta hides this player at PF because his SF skills are VERY weak and there currently isn't a better frontcourt option on the roster because they drafted a true PF in S. Williams that turned out to be a complete NBA bust.

First of all Moses Malone played C most of his career including the '82 title team in Philly. Marc Iavaroni was the starting PF that season with crunch time minutes played by Bobby Jones. Both those PF were listed at 210. I'll give you Barkley although he was a rarity of a 6'5" PF.

Who played PF for the showtime Lakers? AC Green 6'9" 220, Kurt Rambis 6'8" 213
Who played PF for the championship Bulls teams? Dennis Rodman 6'7" 210, Horace Grant 6'10" 210
Who played PF for the championship Rockets teams? Otis Thorpe 6'9" 225, Robert Horry 6'9 220

What is Josh Smith size? 6'9" 225

Not every PF for a winning team needs to be 260 lbs (or 300 lbs during some of Charles's career). There is more than one way to build a team, when you start applying constraints like you need a 250+ lbs bruising PF you wind up blowing lottery picks on guys like Shelden Williams. Sure it's good to have one on your team for matchups but more people get them in the 2nd round and pay them below league average than pay them max dollars (Brand, Boozer, Amare).

Didn't the Sixers do better this year when they started Thaddeus Young as a lean PF and brought the bulkier Reggie Evans off the bench? Like I said it's good to have the bulk on the roster, but unless they've got the skills it is better if they play them situationally.

[SendEm]

First of all Moses Malone played C most of his career including the '82 title team in Philly. Marc Iavaroni was the starting PF that season with crunch time minutes played by Bobby Jones. Both those PF were listed at 210. I'll give you Barkley although he was a rarity of a 6'5" PF.

Who played PF for the showtime Lakers? AC Green 6'9" 220, Kurt Rambis 6'8" 213
Who played PF for the championship Bulls teams? Dennis Rodman 6'7" 210, Horace Grant 6'10" 210
Who played PF for the championship Rockets teams? Otis Thorpe 6'9" 225, Robert Horry 6'9 220

What is Josh Smith size? 6'9" 225

Not every PF for a winning team needs to be 260 lbs (or 300 lbs during some of Charles's career). There is more than one way to build a team, when you start applying constraints like you need a 250+ lbs bruising PF you wind up blowing lottery picks on guys like Shelden Williams. Sure it's good to have one on your team for matchups but more people get them in the 2nd round and pay them below league average than pay them max dollars (Brand, Boozer, Amare).

Didn't the Sixers do better this year when they started Thaddeus Young as a lean PF and brought the bulkier Reggie Evans off the bench? Like I said it's good to have the bulk on the roster, but unless they've got the skills it is better if they play them situationally.

LOL this goes far beyond just simple height/weight measurements. Josh Smith is not a PF. He gets outboarded on a nightly basis by his opposition at PF. Just check 82games.com. Not to mention that his field goal percentage is horrible for a PF, it's more in that outside shooting SF range. LOL. AC Green was shooting over 50% when he was Josh's age. Not to mention that AC Green was a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better on ball post defender than Josh Smith is currently. AC could guard centers.

Are you really comparing Josh to Horry? Is that the basis of what you expect Josh's production to be at PF? Not hardly worth $11+ million now is it? Also unlike Big Shot Rob, Josh Smith has already shown that he chokes in the playoffs.

Rodman and Horace Grant are better players at PF than Josh Smith. Is this even really in question?
Otis Thorpe is a better player at PF than Josh Smith could ever dream of being. Try looking at shooting percentage and turnovers sometime....

[conleyorbust]

I am fascinated how fans of other teams seem to say that Josh Smith is a SF and Atlanta Hawks fans think of him as a PF. I assume this is a factor of the number of Hawks games actually seen and the number of Josh Smith missed three pointers experienced first hand.

He can play both positions and does, but realistically he is a better PF now. Defensively playing PF keeps him closer to the basket so he can protect the basket as a help defender. He even plays some C defensively depending on matchups. Offensively, he doesn't have reliable 3 pt range so having he spot up on the perimeter as a SF is silly. We still seem to do that quite a bit to try and get the defense out of position by have Childress take his man underneath which is why Childress has almost as many offensive rebounds as defensive rebounds. The problem with the strategy is that the defender can play off Smith daring him to launch a 3 or long 2. If Woodson continues to employ this offensive strategy Josh is going to have to improve his long range shooting. Conversely, if we can acquire another 3 pt shooter to stretch the defense then Josh Smith could actually play on the block and use his athleticism to be more of an offensive rebounding force.

Don't argue with that guy, he doesn't think Elton Brand is a good player either but I think he loves Andre Blatche.

Anyway, I think after the playoffs, most fans of other teams now think of Smith as a PF. There are a few that don't know and a couple like this clown who just don't like other team's players and make a habit of trolling to tell you.

I do wonder why we keep running halfcourt sets with Chil under the basket and Smith out on the perimeter, I know it creates mismatches but it lowers our overall fg%. Chil is a great O-rebounder but we really need to find a way to move Smith inside, it shouldn't be on our power forward to be a good perimeter shooter... Only 25% of the shots Chil takes are jumpers. I think most players could shoot a decent percentage if they took open jumpers that rarely.

[CWell]

I am fascinated how fans of other teams seem to say that Josh Smith is a SF and Atlanta Hawks fans think of him as a PF. I assume this is a factor of the number of Hawks games actually seen and the number of Josh Smith missed three pointers experienced first hand.

He can play both positions and does, but realistically he is a better PF now. Defensively playing PF keeps him closer to the basket so he can protect the basket as a help defender. He even plays some C defensively depending on matchups. Offensively, he doesn't have reliable 3 pt range so having he spot up on the perimeter as a SF is silly. We still seem to do that quite a bit to try and get the defense out of position by have Childress take his man underneath which is why Childress has almost as many offensive rebounds as defensive rebounds. The problem with the strategy is that the defender can play off Smith daring him to launch a 3 or long 2. If Woodson continues to employ this offensive strategy Josh is going to have to improve his long range shooting. Conversely, if we can acquire another 3 pt shooter to stretch the defense then Josh Smith could actually play on the block and use his athleticism to be more of an offensive rebounding force.

Don't argue with that guy, he doesn't think Elton Brand is a good player either but I think he loves Andre Blatche.

Anyway, I think after the playoffs, most fans of other teams now think of Smith as a PF. There are a few that don't know and a couple like this clown who just don't like other team's players and make a habit of trolling to tell you.

I do wonder why we keep running halfcourt sets with Chil under the basket and Smith out on the perimeter, I know it creates mismatches but it lowers our overall fg%. Chil is a great O-rebounder but we really need to find a way to move Smith inside, it shouldn't be on our power forward to be a good perimeter shooter... Only 25% of the shots Chil takes are jumpers. I think most players could shoot a decent percentage if they took open jumpers that rarely.

exactly and Childress can actually shoot the 3,unlike Marvin and Smoove.

[evildallas]

I wasn't actually comparing Josh Smith to any of those players. I was just showing that your example of 260 lbs of PF is not the only way to have a successful team. If I was comparing Josh to them I would have noted that AC Green wasn't even in the league at Josh's age. AC was 22 as a rookie and 23 when he became a starter. Josh turns 23 late next season. I might also have said that AC Green got to slide into position on a team of veterans and could focus on a very limited job in comparison to what is needed out of Josh by us. Actually, if I was really going to attack your assertion that you need a big, burly PF to win I would have pointed out that Charles has no rings and Moses only one ring, but he was a C so he shouldn't have even been listed.

As for your playoff choking comment, wtf? True our entire team got blitzed in game 7 by the Celtics. I guess you missed Game 3 where Josh carried us to a win or Game 4 when he had 7 blocks and 28 points. That's the extent of his playoff experience, 1 series. Getting beat in your first playoff series as an 8th seed doesn't exactly earn you a choking label. KG was in his 8th season before making passed round 1 and he still ultimately won a title.

In your new argument on what's a good PF, you focus on shooting percentage and turnovers. It is true that Josh Smith does have a lot of turnovers and he needs to improve that. Some of it is a function of trying to create in the half-court, but it is still too high. As for shooting percentage a lot of that comes from how you are used on the floor. His shooting percentage went up when he actually starting playing on the block. I know because I watched the games. By your argument I should worry that Philly is going to offer Josh Childress a contract to play PF, he shot 57% from the field and had a very good turnover ratio. Of course, he got that by playing against SGs and SFs and having our offense place him on the block to exploit the size mismatch. He might have some problems matching up against PFs.

You seem to laboring under the delusion that I am calling Josh Smith a great PF. I'm not. I'm just calling him a PF. He's young and he makes a lot of mistakes. He's about to get a big raise. Whatever the market will command. I hope it's here in Atlanta cause I've watched him for 4 years and seen him improve each year and seen signs of what he can become. Some other people have seen it too which is why he's on so many wish lists.

[evildallas]

Don't argue with that guy, he doesn't think Elton Brand is a good player either but I think he loves Andre Blatche.

Anyway, I think after the playoffs, most fans of other teams now think of Smith as a PF. There are a few that don't know and a couple like this clown who just don't like other team's players and make a habit of trolling to tell you.

I'm going to take your advice and start ignoring him. I just had to do that last post to explain what my arguments actually are.

BTW, I like Blatche too. His game is raw, but he's signed to a very affordable contract for a big. With proper coaching and deployment he could be a bargain producer for Washington.

For the record, I also liked Reggie Evans. The year our BK drafted Shelden, I wanted Foye or Roy in the draft and Evans signed in free agency to be the toughness/rebounding presence off the bench. Or we could have drafted Craig Smith or Paul Millsap.

[SendEm]

You are beating around the bush. You are claiming that I said that a PF HAS to be big and burly, I see no evidence of me making that statement. You also said something about Josh Smith's shooting percentage is attributed to how he is being used, that it went up when he was used on the block more. He has no on the block ability.Atlanta is using him like the SF with the average handle that he is. If he had a post game he would have been down there getting busy at some point in his 4 year career, no?

Yes Josh Childress is a SG/SF and it goes to show you just how poor of a shot maker Josh Smith is anytime he plays PF and the SF/SG on his team shoots a higher percentage than he does. It's not like Smith is a good outside shooter therefore it is acceptable that he shoots a lower percentage. Smith is a bad outside shooter. Smith is just playing the game that comes naturally to him as a SF. Childress is a natural scrappy player that gets loose balls and turns them into easy scores. Smith misses many layups around the basket unlike Childress whose touch is automatic. If Josh Smith isn't dunking it, generally he is going to miss the shot.