Yahoo/Sportsnet: J. O

[Maximillion]

It's weird...but this move confirms what I love and what I hate about BC.

Love: willing to take chances and redress errors.

Hate: concentrates too much on the short-to-medium term, tends to end up with compromised rosters built for the now or almost now.

I like that he seems to be semi-willing to reconsider his general basketball philosophy...seriously, that's a good sign...but I don't like that in order to do that, based on past moves, we were put in a spot where this kind of half-life move was necessary in order to try and dig us out of the hole we were in.

So in some ways I am a little more positive about out long-long-long term, in that this might mean BC has reconsidered the whole 'basketball revolution' idea...but in other ways I see us doomed to a series of compromised moves based on BC retaining his ability to remain flexible and in control and good in the here and now rather than committed to a real rebuild.

Q: does/did this team need a "complete" rebuild?

[Muhammad_Ali]

Bosh + JO + Jose = The new big 3!

All 3 can make the allstar team if they are all healthy!

I can't wait for the season to start already!!

[Harry Palmer]

It's weird...but this move confirms what I love and what I hate about BC.

Love: willing to take chances and redress errors.

Hate: concentrates too much on the short-to-medium term, tends to end up with compromised rosters built for the now or almost now.

I like that he seems to be semi-willing to reconsider his general basketball philosophy...seriously, that's a good sign...but I don't like that in order to do that, based on past moves, we were put in a spot where this kind of half-life move was necessary in order to try and dig us out of the hole we were in.

So in some ways I am a little more positive about out long-long-long term, in that this might mean BC has reconsidered the whole 'basketball revolution' idea...but in other ways I see us doomed to a series of compromised moves based on BC retaining his ability to remain flexible and in control and good in the here and now rather than committed to a real rebuild.

Q: does/did this team need a "complete" rebuild?

Depends on whether or not you want to really compete for a ring, or just remain 'competitive', imo.

[anotherhomer]

Well I think it is a bold move from BC but he is in a win-win situation. If JO doesn't pan out he get in two years huge cape relief - and we save two years on TJ's contract right????? both have health issues so who has the bigger risk in my opinion? If JO return to his form 2-3 years ago well he is exactly what we need and it shows Bosh that now we want to improve which will help also in two years - overall a very good move except we need to round out our roster with veteran, low-level exception etc.... coul be a bit tight. I don't like too much of losing the pick, but i guess that is the price...

I 2nd that. It's a bold move by BC that can also be justified if it doesn't work out. It can be a sign of good will to Bosh that he's working on moves to help him and also support Sam Mitchell. Two years is a good number because it allows him time to re-evaluate after the first year: is JO cap-relief, keeping for another year, or even worth extending.

On the other hand, JO's type of salary can afford one superstar and even one quality role player (aka Shane Battier). Instead, we get a guy who be lucky to give us 60 games a year and 14/7/2

Still, a center who gives us 14/7/2 (realistically, it's hard to say JO will retain his form, the guy even admit his body isn't as responsive as it used to be) is still better than anyone the raps had before. Even Rasho's productions arguably made him one of the best centers we had.

[Nessah]

ah, then it only makes sense to wait til July 9th. Were there any trades in the past (similar to this situation) where you had to wait more than 1 week to officially consummate the deal BUT one team backed off before the official date?

Well, we would actually send back less players if we wait until the 9th. See, once a rookie is signed to a contract, they become a tradeable asset for the full value of their contract, so we could sign whoever we draft on Indy's behalf to the rookie contract, and then his amount is included in the deal. It may just be TJ/Rasho/(whoever we draft for indy at 17) going back if we wait until the 9th.

I'm sure such deals have been backed out on at some point or other, but I doubt it happens with much frequency.

Hmmm...don't we want to send less players to the Pacers for O'Neal? I think I understand now the concept of signing the rookie at 17 for a certain amount and using that towards the salary match for the trade. I didn't know about that before.

[DarkKnight]

I hate this trade. Ford is the superior player to JO. The injury risk is equal. TJ is younger. Tj is cheaper. The 17th pick and rasho as well? This (along with the continued employment of Sam Mitchell) have me seriously questioning Colangelo. I am willing to go on record as saying, right here:

TJ Ford will play more games than Jermaine O'Neal in 08-09
TJ Ford will have better numbers than Jermaine O'Neal in 08-09
Jermaine O'Neal will not be with the Raptors past 09-10
TJ Ford will lead the pacers to the playoffs in 08-09
The Raptors will not finish higher than 6th in the East in 08-09

Not happy right now. For a guy (Colangelo) who thinks Bargs can be a star, he sure loves putting him in position to fail (no head coaching, no position coach, stuck playing behind O'Neal).

[Not Just a Ballboy]

Harry, what do you think of a Bosh/O'Neal frontcourt? I take it you doubt that JON can stay healthy (based on yesterday's unicorn at SF comment). I also am wondering what you thought of Supersub's stats that showed O'Neal scored inside more than your stats suggested (source).

[totallyr]

I hate this trade. Ford is the superior player to JO. The injury risk is equal. TJ is younger. Tj is cheaper. The 17th pick and rasho as well? This (along with the continued employment of Sam Mitchell) have me seriously questioning Colangelo. I am willing to go on record as saying, right here:

TJ Ford will play more games than Jermaine O'Neal in 08-09
TJ Ford will have better numbers than Jermaine O'Neal in 08-09
Jermaine O'Neal will not be with the Raptors past 09-10
TJ Ford will lead the pacers to the playoffs in 08-09
The Raptors will not finish higher than 6th in the East in 08-09

Not happy right now. For a guy (Colangelo) who thinks Bargs can be a star, he sure loves putting him in position to fail (no head coaching, no position coach, stuck playing behind O'Neal).

For the most part i agree

[rdtx2005]

I hate this trade. Ford is the superior player to JO. The injury risk is equal. TJ is younger. Tj is cheaper. The 17th pick and rasho as well? This (along with the continued employment of Sam Mitchell) have me seriously questioning Colangelo. I am willing to go on record as saying, right here:

TJ Ford will play more games than Jermaine O'Neal in 08-09
TJ Ford will have better numbers than Jermaine O'Neal in 08-09
Jermaine O'Neal will not be with the Raptors past 09-10
TJ Ford will lead the pacers to the playoffs in 08-09
The Raptors will not finish higher than 6th in the East in 08-09

Not happy right now. For a guy (Colangelo) who thinks Bargs can be a star, he sure loves putting him in position to fail (no head coaching, no position coach, stuck playing behind O'Neal).

Comparing Ford to ONeal is comparing apples to oranges.

[DarkKnight]

I hate this trade. Ford is the superior player to JO. The injury risk is equal. TJ is younger. Tj is cheaper. The 17th pick and rasho as well? This (along with the continued employment of Sam Mitchell) have me seriously questioning Colangelo. I am willing to go on record as saying, right here:

TJ Ford will play more games than Jermaine O'Neal in 08-09
TJ Ford will have better numbers than Jermaine O'Neal in 08-09
Jermaine O'Neal will not be with the Raptors past 09-10
TJ Ford will lead the pacers to the playoffs in 08-09
The Raptors will not finish higher than 6th in the East in 08-09

Not happy right now. For a guy (Colangelo) who thinks Bargs can be a star, he sure loves putting him in position to fail (no head coaching, no position coach, stuck playing behind O'Neal).

Comparing Ford to ONeal is comparing apples to oranges.

Sorry, but when you trade one player for another, their production will also be compared.

[UTMCretin]

If healthy I wouldn't put it past O'neal to average 16/11/2. But obviously that's a big if.

O'neal at full strength makes this team just a little better. We'll still be behind the Celtics and the Pistons if they don't blow it up but we'll be better equipped to compete with the Cavaliers, Wizards and the Magic.

All in all I think Colangelo has set himself up nicely for the summer of 09.

Jermaine O'Neal has never put up 11 rebounds per game in his career. Now he's going to do it while coming off injury and playing on a team with an even slower pace than his old Indiana teams? I think you're setting your sights a tad high on what he can accomplish, even if healthy.

[Paeds]

Lets Just Hope JO likes the school system for his kids here

[LEIF]

expect something like 18-9 from JO next season IMO

[Harry Palmer]

Harry, what do you think of a Bosh/O'Neal frontcourt? I take it you doubt that JON can stay healthy (based on yesterday's unicorn at SF comment). I also am wondering what you thought of Supersub's stats that showed O'Neal scored inside more than your stats suggested (source).

No, I don't think he can stay healthy. Well, sorry, of course it's possible, but if even he's been saying that the knee post-op wasn't healed, expecting this to be the first year in 5 he'd play 70 or more games, I think it's a longshot, especially as he's at the age when these things tend to pile up more. If he had a great 'tude, I might have more faith in his ability to do what it takes to give it the best shot, but he doesn't. JO's contract has been called an albatross now for a while for a reason, imo.


But yes, if he can, we're more interesting.

Sorry, what stats did SS show? Been gone since yesterday, never saw his response. I pulled mine off 82 games, which I trust for everything but accuracy re: position played.

[Taiyab_K]

I hate this trade. Ford is the superior player to JO. The injury risk is equal. TJ is younger. Tj is cheaper. The 17th pick and rasho as well? This (along with the continued employment of Sam Mitchell) have me seriously questioning Colangelo. I am willing to go on record as saying, right here:

TJ Ford will play more games than Jermaine O'Neal in 08-09
TJ Ford will have better numbers than Jermaine O'Neal in 08-09
Jermaine O'Neal will not be with the Raptors past 09-10
TJ Ford will lead the pacers to the playoffs in 08-09
The Raptors will not finish higher than 6th in the East in 08-09

Not happy right now. For a guy (Colangelo) who thinks Bargs can be a star, he sure loves putting him in position to fail (no head coaching, no position coach, stuck playing behind O'Neal).

Comparing Ford to ONeal is comparing apples to oranges.

I like apples.

[BringBackBoogie]

Hollinger is throwing his two cents in:


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=Onealtrade-080625

So the upshot is, this deal absolutely works for both teams. I expect the Raptors to be significantly better next year as a result of this deal, as it takes a player who was utterly redundant and converts him into a solution for the team's single biggest weakness.

And I expect the Pacers' rebuilding to be much smoother and faster now that they've jettisoned O'Neal and received '09 cap space and two good young pieces in return.

The players come out of it in better shape, too. O'Neal and Ford get new leases on life after being sprung from difficult situation. Bosh finally gets a frontcourt partner to do the dirty work for him. Calderon gets starter's minutes and some added salary leverage. Even throw-ins Nesterovic and Baston are likely to get more burn in Indy than they would have in Toronto. Only Bargnani loses.

So it's a win-win all-around. Kudos to both Bird and Colangelo for recognizing the mutual benefit.

he likes the trade for both sides.

[robertjanssen007]

I caught this from a Sixers fan from the board and wanted to share this:


Very sensible trade for IND... they needed to blow it up.

But (pending a blockbuster tmrw night) IMO Brian Colangelo wins Executive of the Year award in 09.... Book it.

JO is a competitor, and he will be fired up to prove everyone wrong... He's had almost 3 years to rest his body... IMO he comes back strong this season and the Raps will be dominant in the half court. 50+ wins. Eastern Conference finals.

[inrapscity]

I didn't like the trade if 15th pick wasn't coming. So, yeah... don't like this deal at this point and probably won't. O'Neal's on the decline, paid $21M+ per, health issues. I would've rather done a Barbosa for Rasho deal and a TJ for Maggette and then traded Kapono for Varejao or something.

[cavsfan_osiris]

JO and Bosh are too similar offensively for my tastes. JO will help defensively though.

Calderon is the only player on the Raps roster who can create on his own. They are going to have to address that.

[evilRyu]

Isn't there a restriction in the CBA where if the drafted player is signed to a contract, then he can't be traded until some date much later? Or in this case, no contract is signed, and the rights are sent to Indiana?