cam2win wrote:So my feeling is apparantly only one person in the Bucks organization knows about this rumor and has either only told one other person or has only one friend. In this scenario the spy for the Bucks that reads every post of every forum would be able to relay that message back to Herb and he would demand to find out how these rumors started.
I understand that the above scenario does sound a bit silly, but I confirmed some time ago that many organizations have one or more people on staff that are responsible (along with their other duties) of reading the most popular internet message boards that involve their team (for many teams that is RealGM, but not for all teams, as some have other more well established independent sites) and have mentioned that here on multiple occasions.
In addition, I have recently had a conversation of significant length with a very high ranking NBA executive (obviously I am not at liberty to disclose the name of the person or their team) who provided further confirmation that was very specific to the Bucks and this board.
The Milwaukee Bucks, as an organization, are not only is aware of what in general is being talked about on our forum, they are aware of every singular post. Anything of significance is flagged and passed up the food chain. And some of the higher-ups themselves are known to personally follow our forum in great detail themselves.
CharlosVllnueva wrote:trwi7 wrote:awesomeemailaddress@runnofthemilldomain.com
Give me the rumor because GAD hasn't emailed me back yet.
Greatest. E-mail address. Ever.
No doubt.
That was my initial response the first time I received an email from him.
europa wrote:steger_3434 wrote:europa wrote:Guess I'm the only one happy with this rumor, huh?
To me Kirk is barely worth the number 8 ball. Throwing in a Brewers pitcher and some concrete is just getting raped by the Bulls.
Hinrich has been right at the top of the list of players I want to see the Bucks acquire this summer. I have been begging for this team to add quality defenders the past two summers and Harris ignored it in favor of offense. In my opinion, Dez is worthless so the trade (if true) would be Villanueva/8 for Hinrich. Given how I don't think the 8th pick has all that much value and given how I think Villanueva has to go I'm all over this trade. The only hesitation I'd have would be if it meant passing on Love. But then we have to see what other moves Hammond makes to address this team's needs and weaknesses. If he does well there, then passing on Love won't be troublesome to me.
What I would really enjoy would be the following: The past two summers Harris made moves that everybody in this forum couldn't love enough and I hated. If this trade occurred, it would mean Hammond made a move that I loved that everybody hated.
I would enjoy the 180 degree turn in events. And I can't lie - I'd enjoy it immensely.
I mostly agree with you...
But we are giving up more in this trade than we should have to.
I liken it very much to this past offseason when we outbid ourselves for Mo Williams. It isn't completely similar of course, especially since the Bulls can try to shop Hinrich to any other NBA team that may be interested in him whereas Mo Williams did not have that kind of flexibility on getting a greater than MLE contract (and we were the only team that could give him the 6 year deal he got). Some argued that it was quibbling over small details to be bothered that the Bucks kept upping their offer and caving in to more favorable contract structures for Mo.
You've always got to draw a line somewhere in what you're willing to spend or give up, or you can ultimately justify anything as long as you do it compared to something similar incrementally.
So while I can support getting Hinrich in here, we are not spending our assets wisely.
Villanueva+8th pick+Dez (small-medium expiring) ? Too much.
Change Desmond Mason to Gadzuric instead. Deal. I would have preferred to use our cheap assets in some combination with Mo and/or Redd in a trade, but I could get behind my proposed alteration.
James1980 wrote:It's CV, Dez, and 8 for Hinrich. Isn't CV and Dez without the pick enough for Hinrich?
That is significantly undervaluing Hinrich, IMO.
bango_the_buck wrote:theanimal23 wrote:It can July 1st. The Rockets and Grizzlies waited till July to finalize the Battier for Swift and Gay deal.
No, it doesn't even work then. The salaries don't match up.
Yes it does.
This trade could be made on July 9th, the first day after the July Moratorium, and as such, it could/would be announced on draft day. I would guess it would be announced, just so people wouldn't get all hyped up for the fresh new face only to find out a week and a half later or less that we aren't keeping who we drafted. There is precedent for this type of trade.
I should add that I was made aware separately this morning that the Bucks are involved in discussions that would have us acquiring Kirk Hinrich. I did not receive that from wichmae, his source, or anyone who received their information from wichmae or his source. Certainly wichmae's source and myself could be getting the information from the same place in this instance, I suppose. Who knows.
But I was unfortunately not informed as to what assets from either side would be involved. I really have no idea, so I can't independently confirm that what is involved is CV, the 8th pick, and Dez for Hinrich.
Debit One wrote:As a guy who has been the biggest pro-Hinrich guy on this board for years, I feel compelled to weigh in.
CV + Dex + #8 for Hinrich is too much to give up, IMO.
We at least should find a way to unload a crap contract on Chicago in the deal.
It seems we share similar thoughts on this particular rumor.
Will Perdude wrote:Chill out, everyone. There are hundreds of rumors out there right now. And pages 65 - 72 of a Bucks thread on RealGM has 0% influence on the draft. We are all giving ourselves a little too much power and influence. Chill out and let this play out.
Certainly we shouldn't attribute too much influence to this board, but it is certainly greater than 0%
Even if we are merely talking about pages 65-72 of this thread.
Collectively, this board does play a part these days. It has a significant active user base and it has readership that is multiple times (last time I saw the numbers like 2 years ago I believe the estimate was ten times) as large as the active user base.
NBA teams have taken their cue from politicians who have learned that it was a mistake not to follow what was going on in prominent internet forums (Free Republic, Daily Kos, etc.)
adamcz wrote:wichmae was wrong to post anything in the first place,
Perhaps. That really depends on the conditions he was given from his source though.
I generally am a proponent of sharing however much information one has been given permission to share. Even without having all of the details, having even some information is still of value.
For example, in this case, if wichmae's source had told him that it was ok to mention that the Bucks are involved in discussions about acquiring Hinrich, but he just didn't want wichmae posting the details of what was currently on the table (according to this thread it is CV, Dez, and the 8th). I find that to be useful information.
Even information more vague can be useful. Let's say we had agreed already to this trade but for some possibly legitimate reason, the Bucks and Bulls decided it would be best to keep this deal under wraps until after the Bucks used the 8th pick on behalf of the Bulls. In that example, what if wichmae had been allowed to share with us that a trade had been agreed to and we would be announcing it on draft day. That still provides some information. It tells us that we have some type of trade in place. Yes, it is EXTREMELY likely we will make some kind of trade and have something ready to announce on draft day, but it is still possible that nothing gets agreed upon and we don't make any trade, so therefore the existence of an agreed upon trade is news in and of itself. I certainly want to know those things.
Whatever people can offer, I want to hear about it. I'll weight what I hear based on a person's track record, but I'll still make a note of everything. Every track record has to start somewhere, anyway. IMO the most rock-solid source of information (even if not very frequent) is FormerBuckFan. Even that person at some point shared some information at a time in which they had no track record, and then a limited track record, and then at some point a rock solid one.
adamcz wrote: and even more wrong for emailing certain posters and not telling others. This is a public message board. Your parents are supposed to teach you when you're six years old that you don't bring candy to school unless you bring enough to share with everyone.
The only acceptable way to share something with a select few is to PM the mods and ask them to pass it along (or ask them to pass your email along). If you guys want to be in a secret information-exchange club, trade email addresses with each other, and keep the discussion away from this public board entirely.
That I agree with. That was an unfortunate mistake on wichmae's part, IMO, and it also doesn't appear as though he was at all selective enough about who he shared further details with.
This wasn't handled properly on many fronts, to varying degrees. We all make mistakes from time to time though. Hopefully things will be handled better in the future, and I am very confident that wichmae will learn from this experience. I feel comfortable with that assumption because I have known him personally for a few years now and he is a high quality individual.
Wise1 wrote:Is Hinrich any better than the combination of Sessions and Bell?
Absolutely, IMO.
I like Bell and was in favor of just going with him as the 2nd string PG last year as opposed to bringing in Royal Ivey (with Sessions not being ready, at least I thought, at the start of the year).
But I'd much rather have all of the available 48 minutes at PG distributed between Hinrich and Sessions. Hinrich could even get some of his minutes at backup SG (I don't want Hinrich starting at SG) which would let us get Sessions more time at PG. I'd like Bell as the 3rd string PG and sharing the 2nd string SG duties with Hinrich in that scenario.
I'm a big believer in trying to maximize production for the full 48 minutes at PG (within reason: I'm interested mostly in the starter and the primary backup, not really the 3rd stringer as much and I certainly don't want to spend money on a 4th PG)
Sign me up.
andonewheel wrote:paulpressey25 wrote:The PG is the head of any team. If Skiles wants to change the culture, his ability to do so is greatly improved if he has his guy running things. Hinrich at PG can then impact the other four guys. I wouldn't downplay how important that dynamic is. And what a head start it gives Skiles on working on the other four positions knowing that the PG spot is taken care of with one of his guys.
I don't know if Skiles has that kind of power to tell Hammond the GM to trade for a specific player. Specifically I can't see Hammond making such a big (and disastrous) trade to appease Skiles. Skiles hasn't shown himself to be the type of coach you keep around for a decade, I consider him an excellent "tune-up" coach to hold players accountable for their effort and get everyone to play hard. I can see Hammond around for much longer.
I think both of those posts (yours, and PP25's that you quoted) are very good posts. I agree with both of them and do not believe they are in conflict (not saying you were implying they were).
europa wrote:Don't forget, it was just a couple of months ago that people in the Bucks' front office were on a mission to find out who I really was because of the info I was posting here. All of that blew over.
Well, kind of. I know they are still interested in finding out who you are. Still.
At least as of mid-May they were. They just aren't hell-bent on discovering your true identity like they were in the immediate aftermath.
MikeIsGood wrote:carmelbrownqueen wrote:Well written advice europa..
On a side note, I don't think I will be able to post anything on here on draft night. These new boards are garbage..I have to log in four or five times before it will allow me to respond to one post. And then I have to login every time I want to post something.. imagine how bad these boards will be when they are super congested tomorrow!
I sometimes have had problems getting my posts to show up. I click on "submit," but it takes me back to the topic as if I had clicked "return me to the topic I came from"...only without my post. Do you have that problem, too?
It's happened to me two or three times. Never had the problem in the past. Irritating...
Yes!
I have had that problem as well.
I thought I was going crazy. Thanks for clearing that up
