Yahoo/Sportsnet: J. O

[Next Coming]

I woke up this morning, and I was tired, and didn't feel like waking up. Then I remembered Raptors got J.O, and I was like **** yeah. Instanly put me in a good mood.

LOL! I haven't slept yet. What have I been doing the past 6 hours?

[raps4life~]

Should have gone hard after JO

Indiana raped, pillaged, and burned the Toronto franchise to the ground with this trade.

There's no way in hell I would have been there wanting to try and outbid them.

You realize that almost every sports writer thinks this is a fair deal, if not a good deal for Toronto (which rarely happens)? I even spent some time reading other boards and they all think Toronto owned the deal, which is not easy for people to say as they simply hate us.

[Taiyab_K]

I dont like this trade.


The thing is.... TJ is injury prone and JO also is injury prone, but TJ is 25 and JO is almost 30.

TJ has upside and JO´s good days are over imo.

Plus you guys trade Rasho who played very solid last season and lose 17 pick.....

Dudes pray GOD JO does not injury or you won´t get playoffs ( If JO is injuried, who is our center? Hump???? Barg the soft? )


In the end of this trade i see the Raptors are losing the potential of TJ for a good trade for years... his age and his potential makes him a better value than JO at 30.

Maybe i have different vision than yours, cos im not canadian....but imo i would prefer trade TJ for a relative young player with future, lets say Childress and a first round pick, a SF/C not allstar, but starter for years. As i said before, pray JO does not injury. Plus i don´t like 42% FG in the paint.....

Like people have said before, TJ is pretty much one injury away from retiring, right? No one is going to take a huge gamble and give up young talent for something like that. Indiana, in my opinion, can rationalize this move. They know long-term, they're not going to go far with Jermaine anymore. They had their days. Starting fresh with a guard who has tremendous upside when emotionally OK and healthy -- they really have nothing to lose except a big man who's seen his days.

[bryant08]

Are we going to be picking for Indy and are they going to be picking for us?? With Ford's BYC, the only way this goes down now is if AP or Kapono are involved to make the salaries work, so if this has to wait till July 9th will we have to go through with the picking for each other?

[rdtx2005]

You could argue that the draft combined with TJ Ford provided us an opportunity to fulfill two needs: wing scoring and rebounding. However, we've packaged both of our best summer assets and a serviceable center for one player and passed up the opportunity to have a shot at some solid players that are slated to go in the teens in the draft. Granted, it's early and we could trade our way back into the first round but I don't see many teams willing to give up their first round picks this year. The pick to me is the hardest thing to give up here because there's just so much bloody potential out there.

If all parties in this trade were 100% healthy, the preliminary “winner” of the trade would easily by Toronto. However, given Ford and O’Neal’s injury histories, only time will tell who won this trade. My money’s on Indiana. Ford happens to be 4 years younger than O’Neal who is 29 and although Ford’s injuries have been serious, they’ve been of the “freaky” type having to do with stingers and aggravations. He basically had one injury and fully recovered from it. O’Neal’s injuries appear to be much more chronic in nature and have a higher chance of resurfacing once again - groin, back and knee. The Raptors are definitely taking on more risk here.

there is potential.. but at 17.. you'd probably only get a decent role player.

Both teams are taking a risk.. ONeal to TO actually makes this team not labeled 'soft' anymore. And who knows.. ONeal has been interviewed a few weeks back.. and he is working full out now and feels 100% healthy

[elitehunter99]

well, the swing position remains below average... this is a huge gamble by BC. Also, Bargnani's minutes will have been drastically reduced to around 15 mpg if JO is healthy all year..

[robertjanssen007]

well, the swing position remains below average... this is a huge gamble by BC. Also, Bargnani's minutes will have been drastically reduced to around 15 mpg if JO is healthy all year..

I don't see a problem with that.

[Harry Palmer]

SO in here and on the general board, I see a lot of Raps fans suggesting that JO's fg% issues are less worrisome than they might appear because he has had to carry the load as a first option, and here, playing next to Bosh, he'll get a lot less defensive attention, and should therein be more effective and efficient.

And honestly, that sounds rational and logical, and leaves me with just one question for all the Raps fans supporting this reasoning:

WHERE THE ***** WERE YOU DURING ALL THE BARGS/GAY DEBATES THIS SEASON?

[Harry Palmer]

OK, not sure where you got your stats from, but I just NBA Hotzones, and here's what I got:

Under the basket:
O'Neal - 41.6% of his total attempts
Bosh - 43.3% of his total attempts

In the Paint (but not under the basket):
O'Neal - 39.9% of his total attempts
Bosh - 21.5% of his total attempts

Mid-range and 3s:
O'Neal - 18.3% of his total attempts
Bosh - 35.1% of his total attempts

If you consider the painted area as "inside":
O'Neal - 81.5% of his total attempts
Bosh - 64.8% of his total attempts

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=816842&p=16749938#p16749938

Okay, thanks. 82games has the %'s I mentioned previously, though, and I've never seen anyone question their findings in that regard previously.

JO's mostly a jumpshooter now. People seem to have a slightly skewed view on his offensive game, imo.

[chsh22]

Here's the thing: Even if we don't change our roster any further, as Hollinger put it, we took a redundancy and addressed a huge need for our team. Even if everyone else stays the same, we are better than last year. On top of that, we addressed the need that was hurting us the most. I figure we are good for at least another 6 games, putting us in 06/07 territory, if not higher. I think we finish 3rd or 4th as our roster stands, maybe 2nd behind Boston if we acquire Rip somehow (though how we would fill all those other roster spots is a big question mark).

That's all provided O'Neal stays healthy, obviously, and that is the biggest if of the whole deal for us.

[YogiStewart]

I'm not a fan of this trade, i have a feeling by mid season the JO bandwagon will riding lighter than a balloon filled with helium

Hillarious simile.
We now all know the username for Dave Feschuk

[supersub15]

OK, not sure where you got your stats from, but I just NBA Hotzones, and here's what I got:

Under the basket:
O'Neal - 41.6% of his total attempts
Bosh - 43.3% of his total attempts

In the Paint (but not under the basket):
O'Neal - 39.9% of his total attempts
Bosh - 21.5% of his total attempts

Mid-range and 3s:
O'Neal - 18.3% of his total attempts
Bosh - 35.1% of his total attempts

If you consider the painted area as "inside":
O'Neal - 81.5% of his total attempts
Bosh - 64.8% of his total attempts

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=816842&p=16749938#p16749938

Okay, thanks. 82games has the %'s I mentioned previously, though, and I've never seen anyone question their findings in that regard previously.

JO's mostly a jumpshooter now. People seem to have a slightly skewed view on his offensive game, imo.

I just checked 82games.com and their stats do not resemble anything NBA Hotzones has. I prefer to use NBA Hotzones, because that's the original source from which most other sites derive their stats. An explanation of this variance could be that they consider hooks from 6-7 feet out as jumpers, and hence their stats reflect this.

[Harry Palmer]

Hmmm....not sure which definition I prefer. A hook shot from that far out could be looked at either way. Usually that far out, it's coming across the key or whatever, not so much off a post dip.

[supersub15]

Hmmm....not sure which definition I prefer. A hook shot from that far out could be looked at either way. Usually that far out, it's coming across the key or whatever, not so much off a post dip.

Yeah, I exaggerated the distance, but you get the idea, i.e. guy posting up, getting resistance and ending up with the jump hook away from bucket (could be anywhere from 3 to 7 feet). I don't know for sure, though.

[Shaazzam]

FG percentage, schmeildgoal percentage.

The key numbers for me are 2.1/1.9.

[Guy Smiley]

I feel sick this morning.

Desperation smells putrid.

This move more than ever has me pining for the days of yesteryear. I'm totally demoralized by this.

Thankfully I don't have to see TJ's scowly face anymore. Other than that. Meh.

[kyrils]

Unfortunately I think we loose all our flexibility for a player who has the chance to have worse numbers than rasho for an equal amount of playing time. (14 points in 30 minutes with 6 rebounds last year)and for $22 Million

If we get the Jermaine oneil who last year looked disinterested and as would score 12 in the first half and 2 in the second then we are looking at a hakeem type transaction.

Sure he could go back to the oneil of 4 years ago, but if you think about it rationally this deal makes no sense at all.

I'd rather trade for expirings and draft picks than this.

[Harry Palmer]

FG percentage, schmeildgoal percentage.

The key numbers for me are 2.1/1.9.

No, absolutely, if healthy, JO represents the kind of defensive presence we have lacked/needed.

I just think people are seeing him as this bruising true post presence on offense, and he's much more like Bosh in that regard, if that.

But to me the thing is, his health. It's low odds a 4 year pattern attached to a bad attitude suddenly reverses itself. If he was a gym rat, etc. then, ok, better odds. But as is, hitting 30, averaging 50 games for the past 4 years...well, I wouldn't suggest holding our collective breaths.

And on the other side, it's improbable he misses 80 games or whatever, either, though that would be preferable to playing 40-60, imo, especially if, as usually happens, the health issues are worse the later the season.

Best case scenarios: Bosh and JO both play 75+ games AND are healthy for the playoffs OR Bosh and JO miss most of the season. Anything in between leaves us right about there...in between.

[wazabifuzz]

So Here's what we have after this...

Jose/ Backup PG (Ukic) ?
parker/delfino
Moon/Kapono/Joey
Bosh/Oneil/Bargs/Humps

Brezec is probably gone.
tj, rasho, baston all gone.
We are clearly a wing player and a backup pg away before BC is even thinking about being done.

Let's hope we can land at least one of the two needs tonight!

[AfricanSensation]

I have faith that JO can be healthy. VC was injured for most of his last 4 years here, look at him in Jersey since. Same for Baron Davis in Golden State. Its not something that has never been done before. Of course you never know with injuries but its not like there are no chances that we will see a healthy JO posting 18-9 with 2 blocks. For a guy that will be a 23 mil expiring deal in a year, its worth the risk.