Yahoo/Sportsnet: J. O

[hoop_head]

I think TJ will do well in Indy, a fresh start will do him wonders.

We now have solid starting players at PG, PF, and C. Moon & Kapono are acceptable at SF, so the focus should now be on injecting some viable long-term talent at the SG spot. Replacing Parker at SG should be BC's number one priority. Upgrading the SF spot should be secondary to upgrading the SG spot now that O'Neal in a Raptor. I'm wondering if Ukic can play some time at SG....

The Raps are a better team because of this trade, and thinking ahead if JO doesn't work out, his expiring contract will create a nice pool of cash to spend in 2010.

Pretty good day to be a Raptor fan IMO.

[Champipple]

My first post in this thread since the deal went down.

I haven't scanned all 41 pages, but I've skimmed through a lot of posts, here's my take:

A) This move is high risk / high reward

BC is rolling the dice. This move can make him look like a genius or a fool. BC has always shown he has the cahones to pull big moves and this is a classic move. He probably could have gotten safer players back in a trade (Frye / Webster), but he's swinging for the fences.

B) Andrea Bargnani is officially a bust

June 25th 2008 was the day that it's official. When a team has to trade most of their tradable assetts to find a starter at a position where 2 years earlier they drafted a player at #1 overall for... they drafted a bust. Maybe he can turn it around, but this move seems to confirm that BC doesn't think it's going to happen anytime soon.

C) If BC is going to go after a big time scorer, Bargs is gone

When BC stated that his priorities this offseason were to re-sign Calderon, get tougher interior and add a 20ppg scorer, you knew changes were coming. With this trade he's addressed the first 2 needs, but he still needs a scorer to complete his vision. Most of our identified tradable assetts are now gone, which means that Bargs would pretty much have to be on the table to bring in a scoring wing.

Overall

Overall, I'm happy with this move. I think BC has identified that with Boston stacking up, the East has changed and you need multiple all-stars to win it all. He's trying to aquire the best talent possible. He's taking it on the cheek in trading for the same position as Bargs, but this also shows his flexibility and willingness to correct mistakes.

[calderon13]

Lets Just Hope JO likes the school system for his kids here

LOL Lets hope JO does the job right or his kids will pay lol hehe

[Hendrix]

My first post in this thread since the deal went down.

I haven't scanned all 41 pages, but I've skimmed through a lot of posts, here's my take:

A) This move is high risk / high reward

BC is rolling the dice. This move can make him look like a genius or a fool. BC has always shown he has the cahones to pull big moves and this is a classic move. He probably could have gotten safer players back in a trade (Frye / Webster), but he's swinging for the fences.

I don't think this is all that high risk. I see it more low risk, high reward.

We're giving up Rasho, the 17, and TJ. So basically we have the team we had last year after TJ went down and have added an impact player to it that fills a ton of our needs. Rasho's good, but really nothing special, and not much more then an expiring now. TJ, and Calderon were redundent together, and our PG play shouldn't have much of a drop off with Calderon playing 40 minutes/game. The center position isn't going to take much of a drop off with Rasho gone, but could be great.


I think our offense is going to be fine. We have more then enough capible scorers, and while J.O isn't exactly like some people think offensivly like Harry pointed out. We don't need him to be. We have a very goof offensive team as it is, and J.O just made it better then any offense we got from Bargnani/Rasho last year. The defense, and rebounding is the big thing. That will be a massive improvmetn over last year. And if he's injured we finihs 5th-7th like last year, and have a 23 million expiring on our hands, in a year.

[TripleTTT]

after hearing this trade for the 1st time when I opened the paper this morning I was dreading the possibility that we had sent the 17th as well and of course that seems to be the case ... right now it's tough for me to judge this trade because of how much i love the draft and all the hope leading up to it ... I feel like I've been Charlie Brown'd ... the football has been pulled away just before we were about to boot it ... loosing the players isn't that big of a deal and if O'neal returns to the old form it will be a good trade for us ... I just hate the fact that I could watch hour after hour of draft night in anticipation of something big coming out of Raptor land only to come away with someone at #41 ... I know it's only the 17th pick but we just traded for a former 17th pick

I'm with you. Hopefully BC is interested in trading for another 1st round pick. I would love a developmental player like Ajinca/Batum.

[Champipple]

My first post in this thread since the deal went down.

I haven't scanned all 41 pages, but I've skimmed through a lot of posts, here's my take:

A) This move is high risk / high reward

BC is rolling the dice. This move can make him look like a genius or a fool. BC has always shown he has the cahones to pull big moves and this is a classic move. He probably could have gotten safer players back in a trade (Frye / Webster), but he's swinging for the fences.

I don't think this is all that high risk. I see it more low risk, high reward.

We're giving up Rasho, the 17, and TJ. So basically we have the team we had last year after TJ went down and have added an impact player to it that fills a ton of our needs. Rasho's good, but really nothing special, and not much more then an expiring now. TJ, and Calderon were redundent together, and our PG play shouldn't have much of a drop off with Calderon playing 40 minutes/game. The center position isn't going to take much of a drop off with Rasho gone, but could be great.


I think our offense is going to be fine. We have more then enough capible scorers, and while J.O isn't exactly like some people think offensivly like Harry pointed out. We don't need him to be. We have a very goof offensive team as it is, and J.O just made it better then any offense we got from Bargnani/Rasho last year. The defense, and rebounding is the big thing. That will be a massive improvmetn over last year. And if he's injured we finihs 5th-7th like last year, and have a 23 million expiring on our hands, in a year.

For me, the high risk is due to injury and conditioning. Nobody knows how healthy he is, and if you pop over to the Indiana boards, they say that every year in the off-season they have been fed nothing but "he's now healthy and looks great" only to have him look terrible and injured during the season. If he comes in and can only play half a season, or looks old, fat and tired, Raps lose the trade not based on what they gave up, but what they could have gotten instead.

[Joker]

I don't think we have the depth/durability now to go and win 55+ regular season games, but I do think we're a much more dangerous playoff team.

People always say that depth matters less and elite talent matters more in the playoffs, and offense takes a backseat to defense/rebounding in the playoffs; well we've addressed those playoff priorities - at least in the right direction anyway.

[Snowcrash]

I just hate the fact that I could watch hour after hour of draft night in anticipation of something big coming out of Raptor land only to come away with someone at #41 ... I know it's only the 17th pick but we just traded for a former 17th pick

Yeah, but that 17th pick was like hitting 21 when you're already holding 20. Most of the time, you just go bust, like with most 17th picks. No way was BC going to make the 17th pick a deal breaker for JO.

[Joker]

I just hate the fact that I could watch hour after hour of draft night in anticipation of something big coming out of Raptor land only to come away with someone at #41 ... I know it's only the 17th pick but we just traded for a former 17th pick

Yeah, but that 17th pick was like hitting 21 when you're already holding 20. Most of the time, you just go bust, like with most 17th picks. No way was BC going to make the 17th pick a deal breaker for JO.

I always have a habit of envisioning a poster to be a degenerate gambler in real life when they use gambling analogies on this board.

[Shaazzam]

I'll bet you he isn't.

[Kordic27]

Is this a done deal? Why does the RGM front page have us interested in Marion, and quoting BC as having 4 or 5 deals on the table? Surely, with TJ, Rasho, and our pick gone, we don't have the pieces for anything other than end of bench players?

[Champipple]

Is this a done deal? Why does the RGM front page have us interested in Marion, and quoting BC as having 4 or 5 deals on the table? Surely, with TJ, Rasho, and our pick gone, we don't have the pieces for anything other than end of bench players?

That is strange. Since none of the sources of the article is either Toronto or Indiana, I'd assume that the writers were'nt aware of the made deal when they wrote it, or didn't care!

The Miami article just lists the Raptors as interested (which is true) and the other article seems to reference old news.

[Drewser3131]

I know the deal can't go down for a few weeks, but are the physicals being done today? If we're drafting Indy's guy at #17, shouldn't we have assurance that JO is good to go?

[Snowcrash]

I just hate the fact that I could watch hour after hour of draft night in anticipation of something big coming out of Raptor land only to come away with someone at #41 ... I know it's only the 17th pick but we just traded for a former 17th pick

Yeah, but that 17th pick was like hitting 21 when you're already holding 20. Most of the time, you just go bust, like with most 17th picks. No way was BC going to make the 17th pick a deal breaker for JO.

I always have a habit of envisioning a poster to be a degenerate gambler in real life when they use gambling analogies on this board.

Gamble? Nah. I don't even buy lottery tickets. Don't like the odds. I'm currently in the Euro Cup pool at work, though.

[Guy Smiley]

Gamble? Nah. I don't even buy lottery tickets. Don't like the odds.

And yet you call yourself a Raptor fan?

[Kordic27]

Man do I hope this isn't a done deal and that we take one of the other offers on the table...

JO may be stating that he feels fine and dandy, but he has only played in 206 games in the last 4 years. For the sake of comparison, Hakeem played in 199 games in the 4 years prior to joining the Raptors.

So JO has played in 63% of the Pacers games in the last 4 years... Who else missed 37% of games for 4ish years, and then went on to be a significant contributor to an NBA team?

[LLJ]

Shaq:

95-96--54 games
96-97--51 games
97-98--60 games

[bruno sundov]

Don't you think that TOR now has three like payers in JO,Bargs and CB? they seem to all share a similar skill set. JO doesn't play D anymore. Maybe he will turn it on for TOR. Good Luck!!!!

huh where did you get that?? all the pacers fans were saying that after he came back from injury is defense was excellent, and his offense was a bit rusty... why do you make stuff up?

How about the part that all 3 have similar offensive skill sets, do you agree with that?

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Ok, now we pray for a Vince-type resurrection. The odds are about the same, i think.

Looking at JO's injury history, it's not that scary at all.

He was managing well until 04/05, missing a normal number of games for a big-run player. That season he played 44 games, which looks terrible, but 15 games were lost to suspension. 22 games missed for a shoulder sprain, which I haven't heard of since.

In 05/06, he missed 31 games. Pneumonia(???) and a mild ankle sprain claimed six games, big deal. A total of 25 games were missed because of a torn groin and soreness after he returned. Ouch. But he hasn't missed any more games with that injury.

06/07. The knee injury, plus a couple dings. He managed to play 69 games, but hyperextended his left knee in early february and he missed 7 games scattered over the remaining 22. He tried to play through it, then had surgery after the season.

Then, there was last year. Knee, knee, knee. Tried to rehab and train at the same time in the offseason, and it didn't work. Played only 42 games and turned in poor numbers on the season. That's not to say he didn't shine before he missed 33 straight contests- including the last full game before he went down, January 13 against the Warriors, where he scored 27 points on 11-19, while grabbing 9 boards and blocking 6 shots. 6 blocks on a wonky knee, for the second time in a month! Not sure exactly what happened in the next game, the game PBP shows a foul committed against Baron Davis and then he was pulled. After he came back, he averaged maybe 20 minutes a game over the team's final 9 games, after missing 2 1/2 months, and his stats showed the rust.

The shoulder has healed, and his groin has healed. The knee should heal fine- he mismanaged his rehab schedule, sure- but while bone bruises are brutal and take forever to heal, they do heal- and really, loose cartilage removal doesn't change players. It's not like he had microfracture surgery, and the knee doesn't have any real structural damage. If you've got most of your cartilage, healthy ligaments, tendons and bones, you've got a knee as healthy as most athletes- and, like most athletes, a prescription for some ice and advil.

Three lost seasons, three separate injuries on different body parts, none career-threatening in the slightest. Clearly he's not as resilient as some, and he's always complained about back pain, but I feel better. Hopefully less attention from defenses and fewer minutes will help keep him in the lineup.


From TSN, the ultimate basketball source.

TRANSACTIONS / INJURIES / SUSPENSIONS

31-MAR-08 MISSED 33 GAMES (BRUISED LEFT KNEE).
19-JAN-08 BRUISED LEFT KNEE, DAY-TO-DAY.
12-JAN-08 MISSED 1 GAME (SORE LEFT KNEE).
09-JAN-08 SORE LEFT KNEE, DAY-TO-DAY.
30-NOV-07 MISSED 5 GAMES (KNEE INJURY).
21-NOV-07 KNEE INJURY, DAY-TO-DAY.
02-NOV-07 MISSED 1 GAME (KNEE SURGERY).
31-OCT-07 KNEE SURGERY, DAY-TO-DAY.
18-APR-07 MISSED THE LAST 2 GAMES OF THE REGULAR SEASON (SORE LEFT KNEE).
17-APR-07 SORE LEFT KNEE, INACTIVE LIST.
03-APR-07 MISSED 1 GAME (SORE LEFT KNEE).
01-APR-07 SORE LEFT KNEE, DAY-TO-DAY.
30-MAR-07 MISSED 1 GAME (LEFT ANKLE INJURY).
28-MAR-07 LEFT ANKLE INJURY, INACTIVE LIST.
14-MAR-07 MISSED 3 GAMES (SORE LEFT KNEE).
10-MAR-07 SORE LEFT KNEE, DAY-TO-DAY.
09-FEB-07 MISSED 1 GAME (LEFT KNEE INJURY).
07-FEB-07 LEFT KNEE INJURY, INACTIVE LIST.
29-DEC-06 MISSED 1 GAME (FLU).
26-DEC-06 FLU, DAY-TO-DAY.
13-DEC-06 MISSED 3 GAMES (HAMSTRING).
08-DEC-06 HAMSTRING, DAY-TO-DAY.
10-NOV-06 MISSED 1 GAME (SPRAINED LEFT ANKLE).
08-NOV-06 SPRAINED LEFT ANKLE, DAY-TO-DAY.
27-APR-06 FINED $15,000 BY THE NBA FOR PUBLICLY CRITICIZING OFFICIALS.
01-APR-06 MISSED 1 GAME (GROIN).
30-MAR-06 GROIN, DAY-TO-DAY.
22-MAR-06 MISSED 24 GAMES (GROIN).
27-JAN-06 GROIN, DAY-TO-DAY.
21-JAN-06 MISSED 3 GAMES (SPRAINED LEFT ANKLE).
16-JAN-06 SPRAINED LEFT ANKLE, DAY-TO-DAY.
08-JAN-06 MISSED 3 GAMES (PNEUMONIA).
02-JAN-06 PNEUMONIA, DAY-TO-DAY.
29-APR-05 FINED $10,000 BY THE NBA FOR HIS ACTIONS IN GAME 3 OF ROUND ONE AGAINST THE BOSTON CELTICS.
17-APR-05 MISSED 22 GAMES (SPRAINED RIGHT SHOULDER).
04-MAR-05 SPRAINED RIGHT SHOULDER, INJURED LIST.
24-DEC-04 MISSED 15 GAMES (SUSPENSION).
21-NOV-04 SUSPENDED BY THE NBA FOR 25 GAMES FOR HIS ACTIONS ON NOV 19 AGAINST THE DETROIT PISTONS.
05-NOV-04 MISSED 1 GAME (FOOT INJURY).
01-NOV-04 FOOT INJURY, INJURED LIST.

[Guy Smiley]

Shaq:

95-96--54 games
96-97--51 games
97-98--60 games

That's where the comparison stops.

Age and production.

Jalen Rose laughs at this.