The 2008 Pacer Post-Draft Night Thread

[Scoot McGroot]

After everyone's slept on it, I feel it's necessary to really give us all a fresh start. We got a solid 2 who can step up to the 3 in Brandon Rush. We got a big man to defend the paint and try to help replace JO in that capacity. We got Jarret Jack to help fill the PG spot and, even more than ever, assure that Tinsley is just awaiting a plane ticket out of town.


Overall we did very good. After sleeping on it, do you guys feel any different about last night's draft?

[pacershereiam]

I am very pleaesd with what has happened. I was a lil upset about Bayless, but I am glad at what happened. Jack is a good defender, and can be a great backup. Tinsley is basically out of here. Ford gives us a great fast point guard. Rush is going to be a good player for us. He can shoot it and that is what we need. Kansas played a faster style like we do. I think draft Bayless was smart cause we got to move Diogu and get Rush plus Jack. I would take those two over Bayless. McRoberts who knows, but it is nice to get him too. I think Rasho can help, but for just this year. We need to find a way though to get a PF.

[Orlock78]

OK... I'm Sober now. I apologize for being a Jackass last night. I do not hate Larry Bird.

Moved this post from the "last 3 days" thread.

My Evaluation:

The GOOD: I Like Rush. I didn't before the draft, but after reading up on him and what he's like I really like him. I think he is good for what we need in a shooting guard for this system. I also am happy to have a defensive minded backup PG in Jack. I think that was a Necessity considering Ford's size. I am intrigued by Hibbert and think he has a chance to start for us, and assuming he has no nagging type injuries, will be a great player for us for years. Overall, our perimeter defense has improved substantially, and as long as we stop collapsing on people so badly that we can't recover to prevent the 3, like last year... we should be much better in that respect. Also I am happy with the financial ramifications of all of this; hopefully we can turn this to our advantage in the next couple years.

The BAD: Bayless is a Leader. He is the kind of guy with a bit of swagger who can take over a game and lead a team, and that is EXACTLY what the Pacer's need. In addition he is defensively aggressive, which is perfect for us. I think he could have played SG in our system. But what I'm really upset about when it comes to that trade was VALUE. We traded away a likely All Star, and a talented young forward, and all we received was a likely Good player in Rush, a backup PG, and a guy who will struggle to get off the bench. I think at the very least we should have gotten a 2nd round pick, and really we should have got the 27th pick, or forced them to take Daniels or Tinsley in exchange for one their young forwards. I really think Bird could have gotten more for Bayless. It just blows my mind to think that we could have had Bayless and Arthur, and instead have Rush and Hibbert. Its not a knock against either of the guys we have, just that the other 2 seem to fit our system and needs so much better. Not to mention that the evaluated potential of Bayless and Arthur were substantially higher.

Summary: All this being said, I am not as disappointed as I thought. I am really curious to see how well Brandon Rush does. My biggest fear is that he is no better than his brother. I think we are one athletic power forward away from having a really dangerous team, and I will continue to support the Pacers as I always have. However, I am not impressed with the decisions made last night, and am going to be twice as critical until proven wrong.

[Dunthreevy]

I'm trying to come around to this trade. Like someone mentioned in the thread last nigt, if this trade would've been announced before the draft we would all be happy about it. The fact that Bayless fell to 11 was just an unexpected turn of events.

[IndieRuso420]

I'm trying to come around to this trade. Like someone mentioned in the thread last nigt, if this trade would've been announced before the draft we would all be happy about it. The fact that Bayless fell to 11 was just an unexpected turn of events.

Actually someone did tell everyone this trade was going to happen. I said almost three weeks ago Diogu and #11 for Jack, #13, #36. Well, we didn't get #36 this year, but we got McRoberts who was around that same pick last year. So yeah I basically told Pacer nation that trade was going down, and I did that three weeks ago.

[Orlock78]

Ya ever notice how some people REALLY get on your nerves?

[JarrettJackSG]

okay Ruso420, just because you proposed a trade like this doesn't make it a good trade. I know your just wanting this trade to go through so you can get your "props" but trust that's not going to happen.

I don't give a crap about that. We have 7 new Pacers and we traded JO & Diogu.

How can I not be happy?

Ford, Jack, Rush, Hibbert, Rasho, McRoberts, Baston

What do you guys not like?

Huh...What do we have here?
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After sleeping on it, I feel worse on about the trade. Bayless is a lottery talent, Rush is a role player. Bayless fits us as an upgrade at the back up for the 1, and can back up dun and 2. Essentially a combo guard, he could have given us 20-25 minutes playing the 1 and the 2, and leading the fast break with TJ or Dun would have been great with such a nice shooter, as well as person with good vision. Even if he becomes a Jason Terry, we needed a Jason Terry more than a James Posey.

We could have gotten the 27, and drafted Arthur there. If Larry legend just waited...what could have happened.

As it stands right now, we have a 2/3 who backs up Dunleavy and Granger, and Mcroberts, who is the equal of Ike at this point, and Jarret Jack, our new backup at the 1 who by all accounts screws up fast breaks. He was horrid starting for Portland and was pulled out of the lineup. Diener (whom I loathe) is better.

[IndieRuso420]

I'm trying to come around to this trade. Like someone mentioned in the thread last nigt, if this trade would've been announced before the draft we would all be happy about it. The fact that Bayless fell to 11 was just an unexpected turn of events.

DarkFlashFox please look at the above users comments. I posted that I "predicted" this trade because this user said "if this trade would've been announced before the draft we would all be happy about it" and I wanted to show him that someone tried to tell Pacer nation about it. If you look through that Draft Day thread (where you got my quote) you will clearly see from that point in the thread, until the end of thread, I never mentioned predicting the trade again.

I brought the trade up because someone asked.

Also, I don't understand why Orlock is acting like that towards me.

Sorry if my perspective is good.

I was right that JO would be traded. Out of the six teams I narrowed it down to, TOR was one of the six. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=796067

I was right that Pacers would not get Westbrook who went #4 and Augustin would go top 10, but did not anticipate Bayless (and also predicted Gallinari to fall out of top 10). viewtopic.php?f=17&t=817433

Also the trade, viewtopic.php?f=17&t=797439

I just wish a few people on here would quit acting like I am an idiot and know nothing about basketball. Clearly, this evidence above and living in Indianapolis and watching this team since birth, makes my opinion good enough to talk Pacer basketball on a freaking internet forum.

That is not fair at all. I have just as much right and reason to post here, whether you like my post or not. So what? I don't agree with everything the Mods say or what the popular poster here on the Indy board say. I have an against the grain view on things. However, clearly I'm not completely out of my mind, because some of the things I say actually happen. I think you people just get nerved because some of the things I say actually happen. It's not fair. I've never made a personal comment about anyone besides Greenway 84 and any beef me and DGrangerRx33 might have had was squashed, I squashed it for me. I doubt he is holding onto anything. I don't get where other peoples problems with me come from. So please, quit with animosity people. I don't deserve it, and I don't feel it for you. You guys need to squash whatever negative feeling you have for me because that is just blatently not cool. I am one of you, I am a Pacer fan.

[mizzoupacers]

My gut feeling is that three years from now we will regret trading Bayless. If Bayless is truly a high-lottery talent, as many said he was right up until draft night...well, not too many chances come along to get a player like that. Especially for a team like the Pacers, which never seems to bottom out enough to fall into the top of the lottery. When you have a chance to pounce, you have to do it, just like we did with Granger.

To be fair, though, we have to let it play out. Who's to say that Bayless won't turn out to be a disappointment, and that Rush won't turn out to be significantly better than the nice role player most of us project him to be? And I do think that Rush will most likely be the more productive of the two in the near future, like next season...he's probably more "NBA-ready" than Bayless.

If Rush does turn out to be as good as Bayless, then it's a damned good trade. Diogu is IMO never going to amount to much as an NBA player, while Jack has already established himself as a nice backup pg (and one whose characteristics seemingly make him a good fit behind T.J. Ford). McRoberts is probably irrelevant as a player, he's just in the deal to even up the salary difference between Diogu and Jack. Since I think Jack is worth MORE than Diogu, paying McRoberts too doesn't hurt us any even if we cut him this summer--we still end up with a better player at the same money we were paying Ike.

I'm fairly confident that Hibbert will turn out to be a good value at #17. I hope once he has worked with NBA trainers that he runs the court a little better than it looked like he did in college. That's my only real concern, otherwise I think we got us a seven-foot shot-blocker who looks like he has a clue about how to play basketball.

And thanks to the Toronto trade, we are in much better shape to do good roster moves next summer. That may be the best thing that comes out of the JO trade. No worries about retaining Granger now, and we'll have wiggle room beyond that to be flexible with trades or maybe even sign a free agent outright.

In sum, I think the Pacers have improved their position...I look at the roster and see some holes filled and some hope that there is now the financial flexibility to continue making improvements. We still need another elite player or two before we are ready to be more than a .500-ish, lose-in-the-first-round team, which is why I'm disappointed about Bayless. But now that we've collected some nice singles-hitters, maybe Bird will be ready to swing for the fences the next time a similar opportunity presents itself.

[Archi-stu@BSU]

I was dancing when we drafted Bayless but when I initially heard we traded him, I was so upset...

but after sleeping on it, i am trying to remain optimistic....Chad Ford gave us an A, so i that makes me feel a little bit better..

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008 ... des-080627

[23artest23]

After sleeping on it, I don't feel much better about it. I like Rush but I like Bayless more. I kind of got the impression when we drafted him, he wasn't pleased though so maybe it was for the better. I really don't understand the Hibbert pick but I don't expect JOB to be here beyond next season so maybe he will fit the bill eventually. Until then, I don't know how they can expect to even effectively play him if we are truly going to push the pace to the fullest whether its from a rebound or the pass in. I have watched him the past 2 seasons and there are guys in this league that could sprint the court and nearly back in the time it takes Hibbert to just get down one end. I believe he can be an NBA player but I don't see how a stiff will make it in OUR offense. I hope he proves me wrong though. I expect Rush to be a much better fit and I am anxious to see him play.

[Grangerous]

I was feelin better but when you look at it and see we could have had arthur & bayless over rush & hibbert it makes my stomach turn a little. i like rush but i think we could have got more talent for bayless. all in all if bayless does become an all star player we won't be the only team that missed out on him considering the teams that past on him before he fell to us.

[basketballwacko2]

I'm not any happier now than last night, after obessing til about 5 am I gave up and went to bed. I don't feel that good about these trades the JO trade will work out because we save huge $$$, correct me if I'm wrong, $3.5 million this season and $13-14 million next yr. My issue is Fords neck, if he gets hurt again he'll likely retire, I would, I'd take my 80% and go live my life while I'm not paralized. Rasho will not be resigned most likely or Baston, Hibbert might be ok but needs to lose about 25lbs to play for OB.

As for the Bayless deal I'm like most of us, I was real happy when he fell, but my first comment was maybe we are dealing him to Sacto, well that didn't happen. My choice would have been to keep him because he seems to be a rare talent. If he becomes an allstar in 3 or 4 yrs we're gonna look silly. I also like Rush and Jack. Darrell Arthur bounces around like a pin ball after sitting all night. I really wish he was in the deal we made I'd feel better or if we'd gotten the rts to Rudy Fernandez or Koponen. But I'd have kept Bayless and used Ike to help deal Jamaal.

Question is now what the heck do we do next. Look at some of these deals Memphis trades Miller, Cardinal and Love for Mayo, Fatoine Walker and Jaric? I don't know who got the better of that except that Mayo looks like a star in the making. Talk about too many gaurds Memphis has Jaric, Conley, Critt, Lowry and Mayo. Of course they did get Fatoine and his expiring deal. I guess McHale loves Love.

Sacto still needs a PG I think. Could we send JT and Murph to them for Brad Miller and Mikki Moore?

[basketballwacko2]

Finally this Bayless trade is kinda like running over your foot with a lawn mower at first you're really upset and then you just decide that you can live without your big toe. Well that may be a bit much.

[Orlock78]

I've been reading articles all over the net, and essentially it seems like everyone thinks the Pacers are idiots for trading Bayless. More over the concensus is we got fleeced by Portland. I don't usually put a lot of stock in what other people (writers, critics, bloggers) think about our team because they are not as well versed with the In's and Out's of our team, but in this case I have to agree with them. Especially because the only guy we might have ANY inside knowledge about in this case was Ike, and he wasn't a key cog in this trade outside of making it work financially.

[FreeRon]

I still think the deal was worked out before the draft, and although I like the deal as it happened I would have been ecstatic had it been Augustin instead of Bayless in the deal.

[That Nicka]

I'm sure it sucks to lose Bayless, but I dont think he was a sure thing... He could end up being Jason Terry... I dont think you guys will make the playoffs this year, but if you guys can use your lotto pick next year on a PF, you will be in very good shape imo. down the line:

Ford/Jack
Rush/Dunleavey
Granger/Dunleavey
09 lotto
Hibbert

Not bad at all imo..

[23artest23]

I think Bayless and Ike could have been a tremendous help in getting rid of JT. That may be the most difficult part of this trade for me to grasp. I haven't watched the Kings much the last 2 seasons but from what I have seen, Jamaal could have been a huge piece to their puzzle and I believe they had the hots for Bayless. Between the 2, I think we could have possibly swung a deal with the Kings. It appears to me that it would have been mutually beneficial to make a deal based on JT+Bayless+Toronto pick for Garcia+Salmons. Of course, more would have had to be added to make things balance financially and such but to me, I saw the capability of a mutually beneficial deal. That is all nonsense now though.

[count55]

I think Bayless and Ike could have been a tremendous help in getting rid of JT. That may be the most difficult part of this trade for me to grasp. I haven't watched the Kings much the last 2 seasons but from what I have seen, Jamaal could have been a huge piece to their puzzle and I believe they had the hots for Bayless. Between the 2, I think we could have possibly swung a deal with the Kings. It appears to me that it would have been mutually beneficial to make a deal based on JT+Bayless+Toronto pick for Garcia+Salmons. Of course, more would have had to be added to make things balance financially and such but to me, I saw the capability of a mutually beneficial deal. That is all nonsense now though.

Wait a minute...you don't like a Bayless for Rush/Jack trade, but you'd be willing to deal Bayless & #17 for a packaage centered around Garcia & Salmons? You'd do this just to get rid of Tinsley?

[PR07]

I think this move speaks volumes about how good the Pacers feel about TJ Ford and ultimately Brandon Rush. Rush was their guy, make no mistake about it. Bird just wheeled and dealed and ended up getting us one of the league's best backup PG's and also maybe a PF who could maybe pan out to something in McRoberts.

10. Brandon Rush, SG, Pacers
Has a beautiful outside stroke and is ready to defend -- a perfect fit in Indy. Newly acquired point guard T.J. Ford will get him shots in half-court sets and in transition.

He's 10th in ESPN's Rookie of the Year Candidates, Bayless is 13. The list includes Oden and Rudy Fernandez too.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... ies-080627

15. Roy Hibbert, C, Pacers
Highly skilled and smart. And huge, too. Should be able to get minutes on this team and be a half-court option right away.