Curious!! Why aren't you guys making a play for Vince Carter

JordansBulls · Post #1 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:45 pm

Seems like the Nets would like to have some cap relief with them trading away Jefferson now and even listening to a deal from Cleveland about Wally. You guys are championship contenders, I'm surprised their has been no mention regarding Carter.

Why not just trade Jerry Stackhouse and Eddie Jones for Vince Carter since both (Jones and Stackhouse are expiring)?

That would give you a lineup of:

PG Kidd/Barea
SG Vince/Terry
SF Howard/George/Wright
PF Dirk/Bass
C Dampier/Allen

dirkforpres · Post #2 » by **dirkforpres** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:00 pm

That trade would be amazing. I just dont see our front office doing it though.

dtownmavs41 · Post #3 » by **dtownmavs41** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:03 pm

If all we had to give up was Stackhouse, Eddie, and fillers then I would be all for it but I don't believe the nets would do this. Carter also has a horrible contract so we would be looking at no free agents for even longer.

dtownmavs41 · Post #4 » by **dtownmavs41** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:07 pm

We would have to include George in a S&T for about 5-6 million dollars and I don't think thats enough for the nets to bite. George may have decline the trade last year but there is no way he would turn down that money.

JordansBulls · Post #5 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:09 pm

Well the Nets want to free up space for the 2010 free agent class and getting Stackhouse and Jones would do that. In fact their contract ends next season. I think if you gave a future pick as well they would go for it. They were listening to Cleveland for a Wally-Vince trade, and Stackhouse himself is better than Wally.

Rand10 · Post #6 » by **Rand10** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:10 pm

Apparently New Jersey turned down Wally's expiring for Carter, so I think getting him for nothing isn't an option. I would do a deal based around Howard though.

JordansBulls · Post #7 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:12 pm

Rand10 wrote:Apparently New Jersey turned down Wally's expiring for Carter, so I think getting him for nothing isn't an option. I would do a deal based around Howard though.

Word was that they didn't do that deal because they were finalizing the other deal with RJ.

Rand10 · Post #8 » by **Rand10** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:12 pm

JordansBulls wrote:Well the Nets want to free up space for the 2010 free agent class and getting Stackhouse and Jones would do that. In fact their contract ends next season. I think if you gave a future pick as well they would go for it. They were listening to Cleveland for a Wally-Vince trade, and Stackhouse himself is better than Wally.

I think Wally is much more valuable than Stackhouse, just because he is expiring. Even if Stack were a little better he has $2 million guaranteed in 2009/10. And a future pick from us would be in 2012, since the Nets already have our 2010 pick.

Rand10 · Post #9 » by **Rand10** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:16 pm

JordansBulls wrote:Word was that they didn't do that deal because they were finalizing the other deal with RJ.

Then they could do it now if they were really interested. Cleveland's offer is better than ours unless we include real talent.

dtownmavs41 · Post #10 » by **dtownmavs41** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:39 pm

I think if the nets really wanted LeBron they wouldn't want to make their team better by adding VC. Also they would be trading Carter to another eastern conference team so I think the mavs deal may be a little more enticing.

Velociraptor · Post #11 » by **Velociraptor** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:36 pm

Just my opinion, but I think Carter would have been a better fit for your team last season instead of Kidd, and it probably wouldn't have costed you guys Devin Harris.

Maybe the Mavs could trade Kidd to the Cavs and with some of the pieces from that trade (draft picks) use them in a trade for Carter while also getting players back from the Cavs to fill out your bench.

Terry/Fill in with Cavs player or MLE signing
Carter/Stackhouse
Howard/George
Nowitzki/Bass
Dampier/Fill in with Cavs player or MLE signing

dtownmavs41 · Post #12 » by **dtownmavs41** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:44 pm

I wouldn't mind that trade but Cuban won't trade Kidd until the trade deadline at the earliest. I believe Carlisle will get a lot more out of Kidd but I think we need a second scorer for our team to go anywhere.

JordansBulls · Post #13 » by **JordansBulls** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:05 am

dtownmavs41 wrote:I wouldn't mind that trade but Cuban won't trade Kidd until the trade deadline at the earliest. I believe Carlisle will get a lot more out of Kidd but I think we need a second scorer for our team to go anywhere.

That's what I am saying. With Kidd's age and Dirk hitting 30 soon, it doesn't seem like the window of opportunity is that much longer. Losing Stackhouse and Jones for Carter is nothing.

This team below would be pretty darn good and could beat anyone IMO.

PG Kidd/Barea
SG Vince/Terry
SF Howard/George/Wright
PF Dirk/Bass
C Dampier/Allen

dtownmavs41 · Post #14 » by **dtownmavs41** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:12 am

I haven't watched VC enough to know exactly how his defense is. Anyone know his defensive tendencies?

Teffer10 · Post #15 » by **Teffer10** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:36 am

JordanBulls,

I've brought this same trade idea up so many times on this board that my Mav buddies are getting tired of me. Only my trade suggestion was Stack and George (S&T).

This make so much sense for what the Mavs are trying to do and VC fills a tremendous need for this team. I hear the rumors that Kidd and VC don't get along but I'm not sure that would be a problem since it is very clear that Dirk is the main guy on this team.
VC is a guy that will get a lot of attention from the defense which will free up Dirk and Howard.

The Mavs will miss out on a huge opportunity if they don't make a big run at this guy. He is probably the best available player out there with a bad contract on a team that is obviously attempting to increase cap space. The Mavs could probably get him without giving up Howard, Kidd, or Dirk.

Since the Mavs FO is determined to win a championship with Dirk, VC is a guy who make them serious contenders again (as long as they don't have to give up any core players). Right now, the Mavs are very average and may struggle to even make the POs in 09.

Sken · Post #16 » by **Sken** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:06 am

I think any deal with the Nets must include Diop. That way Dallas can turn their only other asset (MLE) toward the best player available and not really worry about filling out a position.

I don't know how in love with Simmons the Nets are, but I would consider Carter their biggest desire to dump. Would they consider a Stack, Jones, George, JJB, and Juwan Howard for VC and Diop (6 million one year guaranteed). George can get the full Early Bird, JJB can get 3 million and the BYC actually helps on both, while Juwan Howard can get 120% of the minimum.

After next year the only thing the Nets are paying is the guaranteed portion of Stack's contract.

In order to grease the skids give NJ 3 million and see if they will move the pick owed to '09. I keep mentioning moving the pick because I believe that the drop off in either Kidd's game OR his contract from the cap will be substantially higher in the 09-10 season than next year.

italy_23 · Post #17 » by **italy_23** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:26 am

well, I am not a friend of carter, but for this package you just have to do the deal. that would be a rape, but if they even discuss a wally for carter deal you never know. maybe their plan is really to just flat out suck next year, get a top pick, have all the money to get lebron and be serious again thereafter. sending vc to cleveland wont help them because the cavs would get better obviosly and lebron may not opt out.
if they really would do that deal, the mavs would be lucky.
no way would I trade howard for carter though

SpeedyG · Post #18 » by **SpeedyG** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:51 pm

As someone have mentioned, Vince isn't going for free. The Nets traded Jefferson because they felt they got a prospect in return in Yi (as well as a marketing cow in NJ/NY area). VC is still their biggest draw, so giving him away for nothing isn't going to happen.

The Mavs have two tradeable assets in Howard and Bass. I'm not sure how the Nets feel about Howard, and maybe there is some interest there, but Bass probably wouldn't be an option due to the logjam the Nets have upfront (Swift, Williams, Yi, Anderson, Boone, Lopez, Krstic).

Secondly, Kidd did privately gripe about Carter because a) he got the extension and Kidd didn't, and b) he got it despite really not showing up for the playoffs last year.

Someone suggested trading Kidd to Cavs, and I think that would be a decent option should Cuban decide to do it. Of course the Cavs don't really have anyone that would turn the Mavs into a legit contender in the west either (it might help with depth though), so doing a deal with Cleveland without having Carter in the fold already would be incredibly risky.

But really, it won't happen until the deadline is almost here. They brought in a new coach, so new system, etc so I doubt they make a change with their core group this quickly. I think Kidd, Howard, and Dirk is it, unless it is still not working when the deadline rolls around.

Teffer10 · Post #19 » by **Teffer10** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:04 pm

Sken wrote:I think any deal with the Nets must include Diop. That way Dallas can turn their only other asset (MLE) toward the best player available and not really worry about filling out a position.

I don't know how in love with Simmons the Nets are, but I would consider Carter their biggest desire to dump. Would they consider a Stack, Jones, George, JJB, and Juwan Howard for VC and Diop (6 million one year guaranteed). George can get the full Early Bird, JJB can get 3 million and the BYC actually helps on both, while Juwan Howard can get 120% of the minimum.

After next year the only thing the Nets are paying is the guaranteed portion of Stack's contract.

In order to grease the skids give NJ 3 million and see if they will move the pick owed to '09. I keep mentioning moving the pick because I believe that the drop off in either Kidd's game OR his contract from the cap will be substantially higher in the 09-10 season than next year.

I think the trade could actually be possible if we were to include another team and Bass. If we would get Diop back in the deal, we would have the luxury to give up Bass. VC and Diop fill our two biggest needs and we would still have the MLE for the backup PF and another shooter off the bench.
I think we should do the deal that you mention if it is available and include Bass to another team for a young SG prosect to go to NJ. Then we sign Brian Skinner to Vet Min and bring Pops back.
Then sign the best available shooter for another bench scorer/shooter with MLE (we might just have that in Foster though).

Kidd/Terry
VC/Wright (Foster?)
Howard/? (R. Terry)
Dirk/Skinner/Pops
Damp/Diop

dtownmavs41 · Post #20 » by **dtownmavs41** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:26 pm

I just don't see the nets giving away Carter that easily. He is their best player and I would imagine they would atleast want a future 1st and a prospect player, and Bass wouldn't help them out. To me it just seems like we are trying and trying to make something work with the Nets and nothing is there.