Suns/Hawks

[Togo]

Long term, and short term, I actually believe this benefits both teams. Please understand the rest of the Suns board will think I am crazy for this.

Amare/Strawberry

for

Josh Smith/Al Horford/ Acie Law.

Why for the Hawks: With Amare, and his 27-28 ppg, IMHO they contend in the east. Certainly they need to make a couple of moves beyond just this. (Maybe Varajao?/ ), but I think this makes a very good team. I also see Marvin blowing up without Smoove playing his same position.

New Lineup

Bibby
Johnson
Marvin
Amare
ZaZa
With Chill and a couple FA's on the bench.

Why for Phoenix: As insane as it may sound to trade Amare, (Who, if he played like he did from all star break on could be the MVP) the Suns improve a lot of their weaknesses here. I think Smith could improve his 3, and ultimately become a taller, possibly better Matrix. He will be on a winning team, and I can see his desire skyrocket. Horford is not nearly as exciting as Amare, but the Suns will certainly value his D,and rebounding. Law would be valuable to spell Nash, and has shown in the past that he can be the leader on a team.

New Lineup

Nash
Bell
Smith
Horford
Shaq.

Hill/Lopez/Barbosa/Diaw

Thoughts?

[JoshB914]

I'm kind of on the fence with this one.t would be tough for us to give up both Al and Smith.

[evildallas]

Too much to give up.

[HoopsGuru25]

WTF? The Suns had a chance to do the 3 way that would have sent KG to Phoenix last year and we would have ended up with Amare for 3+11+filler. Adding Josh Smith on top if it now(after it's clear you should have just done the trade last year)makes no sense.

[HMFFL]

The trade is very reasonable. However, the one thing that I see being an issue is our defense or lack of for that matter. I don't trust the lineup to defend and I don't like the idea of Acie being included.

[Togo]

The lack of D for ATL was also a concern of mine in the trade. I thought it would either be Acie or a 1st round pick. Maybe Michael can trade you Gerald Wallace for Marvin and a filler?

[HoopsGuru25]

The trade is very reasonable. However, the one thing that I see being an issue is our defense or lack of for that matter. I don't trust the lineup to defend and I don't like the idea of Acie being included.

I don't see how it's reasonable at all. Horford and Josh Smith is probably the best package that's been traded in recent memory. If you trade BOTH in the same deal...the team you have left better be a legitimate title contender. The lineup in the original post would be good(45 plus wins) but not title contention good.

Now let's say the trade of 3+11 for Amare went down last year. You would have Amare and another piece left(Smith)who could still get you another really good player. Joe,Amare,and 3 average players is not going to win a title. Now if you have Joe/Tmac/Amare or Joe/Melo/Amare...then you have a team that can actually do something.

[Togo]

I don't know, with a couple realistic trades IMO, you would have a contending team in the East. You would also be a place where FA would want to come. (However, I certainly see your point).

Zaza for Varajao
Marvin for G Wallace

Bibby
JJ
GForce
Amare
Varajao

That makes for an interesting team.

[Hawks]

That trade for Amare make the Hawks worse. Our interior defense will be... Plus something that is going overlooked. Al Horford is an emotional and probably the true leader for this team.

[HMFFL]

The lack of D for ATL was also a concern of mine in the trade. I thought it would either be Acie or a 1st round pick. Maybe Michael can trade you Gerald Wallace for Marvin and a filler?

Not likely due to the amount Joe and Amare make. Atlanta doesn't do this trade to begin with with the current state of the roster and it just kills the team defense that's trying to be built here.

I don't see how it's reasonable at all. Horford and Josh Smith is probably the best package that's been traded in recent memory. If you trade BOTH in the same deal...the team you have left better be a legitimate title contender. The lineup in the original post would be good(45 plus wins) but not title contention good.

Now let's say the trade of 3+11 for Amare went down last year. You would have Amare and another piece left(Smith)who could still get you another really good player. Joe,Amare,and 3 average players is not going to win a title. Now if you have Joe/Tmac/Amare or Joe/Melo/Amare...then you have a team that can actually do something.

I should of clarified. Hell would need to freeze over before I did this trade. I said reasonable because I was thinking if Atlanta had other pieces set it would make sense to do a trade like this. When I replied I was a bit busy at the time, but I was thinking outside of the box, and that's my mistake for not clarifying.

We give away two foundation pieces for the future of this team and hopefully Acie can prove he's part of that also. Our defense would be among the worse but having Amare over Al/Josh right now may win us a few more games. Amare would need to stay health and I don't think that's likely with the amount of load he'd need to take on.

Not worth the risk.

[evildallas]

Too much to give up.

Allow me to elaborate. It isn't the Josh Smith part (although I am a huge Josh Smith fan) that is the too much part. It is Al Horford. Al Horford has the makings of a rock for the franchise for a decade. Giving up the pick that becomes him is one thing, but once he plays and proves he's for real, his value goes up. While Amare is a more dominant offensive player he has never shown the inclination to work that hard on the defensive end (The 2 bpg doesn't indicate the true nature of his D). If it was a S&T of Josh Smith, Acie Law, and Marvin Williams for Amare and filler then I'm more likely to get on board. The problem is that the filler needed to make it work contract-wise is Raja Bell (depending on the contract that Josh Smith gets).

Bibby
JJ/Raja/Mario
Childress/Jeremy
Amare/Solomon
Al/Zaza

You could start Raja at SG and Joe at SF with Childress coming off the bench. We'd have to sign a backup PG and another wing, but with that core we might be a bit more attractive to free agents.

The initial trade starts Zaza and that isn't a contending move. Starting Childress or Raja instead of Marvin and Al instead of Zaza is a stronger lineup.

Now that I've said all this, what is Phoenix's motivation? I admit that Josh Smith helps them defensively, but they lose on the offensive end.

[Togo]

Thanks for your input. As a Suns fan, I'm still not sure I would even do the deal. I just wanted to see the value of Amare.

What's the availability of Marvin? How is he progressing? Do you think his game would fit in PHX?

[Rip2137]

*puts on suns cap*

Well, as a dual fan I can say this trade is horrible. One or the other Along with Marvin would be a good trade for the hawks, but the Suns could get more. And we could get more and better for smith AND horford.

As to Marvin, he wouldn't have fit in the D'Antoni's style in Phoenix. You know how Amare stops the ball alot if its not a pick and roll and faces up and its pretty much him or nothing? That would be Marvin. He gets to the line alot, has a nice first step, not a great finisher at the rim and a solid midrange shot, but I just don't see him in the quick hitting, moving offense that the Suns were before they traded for that no freethrow hitting, 3 game in the playoff blowing lug of a man(sorry...still bitter).

I think this is going to be a very interesting year for the Suns. I hope good interesting, but part of me thinks that we are in for a shock.

[Amen316]

The Atlanta are Hawks players are one of two things = Either extremely overrated for trade value due to their stand against the Celtics. Or they will come back next year and be a top 5 seed.

I think Amare would make this place go crazy he is so electric, but if Amare isnt happy then no one is, theres a tight rope excitement and potential crash with Amare.

You would think if Josh Smith, Al Horford, and JJ are so good why did this team struggle so much in one of the weakest conferences in NBA history. (i do know the conference as a whole is on its way back).

I dont make the trade even though Im a proponent of the best talent and team chemistry wins normally..

[evildallas]

The Atlanta are Hawks players are one of two things = Either extremely overrated for trade value due to their stand against the Celtics. Or they will come back next year and be a top 5 seed.

I think Amare would make this place go crazy he is so electric, but if Amare isnt happy then no one is, theres a tight rope excitement and potential crash with Amare.

You would think if Josh Smith, Al Horford, and JJ are so good why did this team struggle so much in one of the weakest conferences in NBA history. (i do know the conference as a whole is on its way back).

I dont make the trade even though Im a proponent of the best talent and team chemistry wins normally..

Just because some of us wouldn't make the original trade doesn't mean overrating our players for trade value. Amare is an excellent and very exciting player, but the original trade requires us to give up too much to make a legitimate run in my opinion. It's like when Boston acquired KG, if they had given up both Jefferson and Perkins then they would only have KG on the front line with Brian Scalabrine. Big 3 or not I don't think they have the best regular season record with that as the projected front line. If Perkins wasn't around their C is realistically Powe or Davis. And does PJ Brown even come out of retirement if they don't look like such a good bet for a title?

Smith and Horford might be fair trade value wise, but with Zaza and Solomon as the alternative we just don't have enough in the cupboard to make such a deal. Actually, we would probably mostly have Amare play C and Marvin move to the 4 and Childress actually start? Then we have a lineup with Zaza as the top sub and no backup PG, no backup SG, no backup SF, and only Solomon to step in at PF. We just aren't a deep enough team to make a trade of 3 rotation players for 1 star. It's true that Boston send a lot of people out for stars last year, but they started with a deeper roster when they did it. Maybe we draw some of those veteran minimum joiners to the squad (we'll need them).

[MikeRice]

personally I wouldnt trade Horford for Amare straight up... Amare still isnt a great defender, they are about the same size and Amare has a history of injury problems... Horford just had a fantastic rookie year and should only get better.

[HoopsGuru25]

A history of injury problems? He's had the 1 knee injury and he's missed 3 games in the last 2 years. Amare is the best offensive big man in the game right now and he's still 25. I would have no hesitation to swap Josh or Al for Amare...however giving up both in the same deal would be a mistake.

[evildallas]

personally I wouldnt trade Horford for Amare straight up... Amare still isnt a great defender, they are about the same size and Amare has a history of injury problems... Horford just had a fantastic rookie year and should only get better.

Bold statement. I like Al, he's a man. Amare is a beast. You lose 1 rebound per game, but you gain 15 points. The difference in defensive prowess or more a motivation and effort issue in my opinion. And it's not like Amare is an aging vet, he's 25 right now. We'd have to include another 11M in salary, but yes I'd do that as long as it didn't include Josh Smith. Amare is better than either Al or Josh, it's just that we can't afford to give up both. I'd rather include Smith than Horford because of sheer financials. Amare would give us the best low post scoring threat in the East (just ahead of Dwight Howard), which would make Joe way more effective on the perimeter.

I guess my final argument would be if Al became all we realistically hope for, how would he compare to Amare right now?

[parson]

A lot of the guys who went straight from HS to the pros seem to burn out in their early 30's. I think the mileage, not the age, is the real issue. And Amare's odometer has been turning for a while.

Secondly, 15 extra points when Steve Nash is your PG is not so impressive. Ask yourself, what would Horford score if he were receiving Nash's passes?

And that one knee problem is a very troubling one; not a simple concern.

[td00]

Al Horford is not part of the problem here. He is the best asset we currently have. He will be on his rookie contract for what, 3 more years? Marvin is considered a good contract for us right now and probably next year, as if he plans on making more money, he is going to have to step up his game.
I could see a draft pick, Smoove, and Acie or Chills, but not Al and Smoove. You would have just traded anyone remotely able to help Amare. And please don't suggest to put Zaza back in the starting lineup. His defense to me is comparable to the fast lane of the 400 toll booth.
We are looking to build with more interior bodies. I don't think you need to trade 2 solids for 1. We are already thin in depth as it is.
I don't have a lot of faith in Sund, ASG or Woody right now. We have just gone through 1/3 of the 3 steps to improve a team (the draft), and not a word was mentioned that the Hawks might want to get involved with any other team. Now you're down to 2 more ways to improve your team.
We need more players for less at this point whether we get a 2-for-1 deal with Marvin or Smoove if necessary.
Don't be surprised to hear Memphis' having interest in not only Monta Ellis, but Smoove for their interior. Can you imagine having Mayo and Conley feeding you the ball on the break?