What will it take to get a big man on this roster?

td00 · Post #1 » by **td00** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:33 pm

Aside from locking in the Joshes, we desperately need help on the inside.

If we aren't going to try and get into the draft and take a chance on a 7 footer, we have to work out a deal to get us a vet and quick. Horford needs help now and we have some depth in the backcourt.
Now, where do are true options lie? No matter where we go, we are going to be asked to pony up some $$ to sign someone to an offer sheet. We have a chance to muddy the roster of a couple of teams and make them decide on their big men or lose them.

I see the same names available: Morris, Kwame, Diop, Mutombo, Ratliff, but I would like to add Brian Skinner to the list of those available. From the little I have seen, I think he fills a need here and he could get some minutes here instead of being behind Shaq and Amare.

One more name and for defensive purposes only: Michael Ruffin from the Bucks. Limited on offense and FT shooting, but could be a Reggie Evans type player here as we have enough players that are willing to shoot.

My first choice would be Morris, as he fits the half court game and can be a defensive presence. One other choice: Jamaal Magloire to see if he has anything left, but I would guess he would want a starting slot to motivate him.

One of those guys has to be in the guys has to be considered as highly needed come July 1, as well as perhaps a Chris Wilcox. But we need to be able to have a backup plan should we not get Smoove to come back here. A limited risk, but still a risk.

I sure would like to hear that we are outworking everyone for depth, but I don't expect to hear that. This management team just seems to be more reactive than proactive and that is what makes it tough to be patient when trying to improve this roster.

mattlanta · Post #2 » by **mattlanta** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:47 pm

It will require the ASG to spend some cash...

...well there goes that idea.

SendEm · Post #3 » by **SendEm** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:32 pm

This is a great thread. If Atlanta gets a guy like Francisco Elson and starts him at center or PF I believe they would be much better off. Marvin Williams needs to be coming off of the bench. Al Horford would look much better alongside ANYONE who has some true height and and the fundamental frontcourt big man defensive techniques.

td00 · Post #4 » by **td00** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:44 pm

As I said before, you will have to be able to tell a big man that he has an excellent chance to come here and crack the starting lineup. No more Willis, Wright, and Doleac talents can come in here and sit the bench.
We all know Woody and his proficiency for not being able to handle a bench. I don't think he changes the way he operates now that he has outlasted the 'BE' (basketball expert).

killbuckner · Post #5 » by **killbuckner** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:46 pm

We don't know how he will deal with having actual useful bench players. He currently only has one and he handed Childress just fine.

Post #6 » by **Jamaaliver** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:37 am

It will cost the Atlanta Hawks one of the Joshes.

Childress will get us a srviceable big.

Smoove will garner a talented young big with AllStar potential.

Im in favor of keeping Chills and trading Josh Smith. For Dalembert, maybe. Or LaMarcus Aldridge. Okafor? Nenad Krstic and Marcus Williams? Andrew Bogut!!!!!! Chris Kaman.

Smith is our most valuable bargaining chip. And with Horford here, we can afford to trade him for a traditional, shot blocking big man.

KJizzle · Post #7 » by **KJizzle** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:32 am

No true hawks fan would trade J Smooth. After all he has done for this team/city
then you wanna trade him (ala Dominique)

also we need to keep Zaza he showed toughness in the playoffs, what do you think would have happened if KG got in the face of one of those centers you named. they would have folded like a sheet of toilet paper

we need to trade marvin williams we can't count on him ever night with smooth if hes not scoring he's blocking shots.

if we get rid of smooth for a traditional shot blocker who is goin to be our second scorer ?

conleyorbust · Post #8 » by **conleyorbust** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:56 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:It will cost the Atlanta Hawks one of the Joshes.

Childress will get us a srviceable big.

Smoove will garner a talented young big with AllStar potential.

Im in favor of keeping Chills and trading Josh Smith. For Dalembert, maybe. Or LaMarcus Aldridge. Okafor? Nenad Krstic and Marcus Williams? Andrew Bogut!!!!!! Chris Kaman.

Smith is our most valuable bargaining chip. And with Horford here, we can afford to trade him for a traditional, shot blocking big man.

That HAS to be a joke, right?

evildallas · Post #9 » by **evildallas** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:17 pm

It doesn't require trading one of the Joshes because good bigs aren't being traded and there isn't one that we could get that would be an adequate substitute for Josh Smith.

Option 1) Sending expirings to Denver for Nene. Nene's health questions and contract make him likely to be dealt. Not sure we can come up with the right contracts though.

Option 2) Overpay a young big free agent and hope they develop into more. This has Patrick O'Bryant written all over it. His per minute numbers are impressive. There just aren't many minutes to base that on. Since he's an unrestricted free agent we have to overpay to win the right to take the risk.

Option 3) Trade Zaza's expiring contract for a big that fits better. The problem here is finding one on the trade market that isn't insanely overpaid (Gadzuric) and only moderately overpaid (Pryzbilla), but is actually on the market (Etan Thomas?). I still cling to the idea that Petro fits us better than Zaza, but we would also need to sign a beefy free agent PF to have on the bench as well.

Option 4) Throw the full MLE at Diop or Kwame Brown. Again this is overpaying, but probably what will be necessary to land one (I'd start with a lower offer though just in case). The bad thing with this is it a 3 year minimum risk of dead weight on the roster. Sadly I think Brown might be the better option just realize that he is a zero on offense except for putbacks.

We need rebounding and D in the middle of the bench. If we focus on someone providing that without requiring a well-rounded C we'll have more options.

deviljets7 · Post #10 » by **deviljets7** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:09 pm

conleyorbust wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:It will cost the Atlanta Hawks one of the Joshes.

Childress will get us a srviceable big.

Smoove will garner a talented young big with AllStar potential.

Im in favor of keeping Chills and trading Josh Smith. For Dalembert, maybe. Or LaMarcus Aldridge. Okafor? Nenad Krstic and Marcus Williams? Andrew Bogut!!!!!! Chris Kaman.

Smith is our most valuable bargaining chip. And with Horford here, we can afford to trade him for a traditional, shot blocking big man.

That HAS to be a joke, right?

Nets fan here. I have to agree with you on this one. As much as I like Krstic/Marcus, the idea of him for Smith is insanity.

I do like Childress and I think he would be a great fit in NJ. I wonder how viable a deal centered around Krstic for Childress would be.

evildallas · Post #11 » by **evildallas** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:36 pm

deviljets7 wrote:Nets fan here. I have to agree with you on this one. As much as I like Krstic/Marcus, the idea of him for Smith is insanity.

I do like Childress and I think he would be a great fit in NJ. I wonder how viable a deal centered around Krstic for Childress would be.

Interesting thought. I have to admit that the Nets are one team that I didn't see a lot of. How would you describe Krstic game and how well has he recovered from the injuries that sidelined him for that long period? I know his stats were way down, but that doesn't always tell the who story.

I like the idea of the S&T swap, but Childress is like our whole bench because of his flexibility to play the 1-4. Because of that I think the Hawks management would probably pass on the deal. He would probably excel as a starting SF on a team with good talent due to his unselfishness and willingness to do the dirty work if given a chance. Like I said I like the idea because you've got to take some risks to land a skilled big.

Netaman · Post #12 » by **Netaman** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:01 pm

evildallas wrote:
Interesting thought. I have to admit that the Nets are one team that I didn't see a lot of. How would you describe Krstic game and how well has he recovered from the injuries that sidelined him for that long period? I know his stats were way down, but that doesn't always tell the who story.

I like the idea of the S&T swap, but Childress is like our whole bench because of his flexibility to play the 1-4. Because of that I think the Hawks management would probably pass on the deal. He would probably excel as a starting SF on a team with good talent due to his unselfishness and willingness to do the dirty work if given a chance. Like I said I like the idea because you've got to take some risks to land a skilled big.

I think this is a trade that makes a lot of sense for both parties. Kristic probably came back from the injury a little too early at the beginning of the season. He then took some time off, got back into shape and came back later in the year. When he came back later in the year the team itself was just not a good situation for a player returning from injury. The Kidd trade shook up the whole roster which in itself make it difficult for players to rediscover their new roles. Also we had a good amount of depth with our bigs (Boone, Swift, Sean Williams, and Diop) so that made it hard for Kristic to really get a fair shot considering the rust that built up over 13 months of no basketball. Also we were competing for the 8 seed so it was just a tough situation all around.

That said we did start Kristic and slowly but surely his offensive game returned. He is a really hardworking player in general so I can't say it would surprise me at all to see him completely rediscover his previous form, afterall he never relied on athleticism that much anyways. His jump shot is really good, he has developed a really nice hookshot, and it is my opinion that by the end of this next season he will be back around the 15 ppg mark. Now the problem - it most likely won't be with the Nets. As of now we have under contract for next year - Josh Boone who earned a starting spot, Sean Williams, Yi, Brooke Lopez, Stromile Swift (will hopefully get traded), and Ryan Anderson. IMO a trade with you guys makes the most sense for both parties because you are really just looking for role playing reserves (which Kristic, Boone, and Swift could all be) and financial flexibility to resign Josh Smith. Plus aren't you guys looking to get Marvin Williams into the starting roster? In all honesty I think some deal built around NJ's bigs and Josh Childress makes a ton of sense for both teams.

raleigh · Post #13 » by **raleigh** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:53 pm

There's no question that Kristic is an upgrade over Zaza, but he's not what the Hawks need at center - a defensive big man.

Plus, with David Andersen still an option to come over in 2009, I don't see the point.

evildallas · Post #14 » by **evildallas** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:48 pm

mrhonline wrote:There's no question that Kristic is an upgrade over Zaza, but he's not what the Hawks need at center - a defensive big man.

Plus, with David Andersen still an option to come over in 2009, I don't see the point.

Give up on Andersen, he isn't coming. All the Hawks are to him is bargaining leverage to get the best deal he can in Europe.

raleigh · Post #15 » by **raleigh** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:48 am

evildallas wrote:Give up on Andersen, he isn't coming. All the Hawks are to him is bargaining leverage to get the best deal he can in Europe.

Why should I? Given Andersen's public interest and the Hawks' eternal need for skilled bigs, I see no reason to give up on him.

Not all of us sway in the wind with the gentlest breeze.

evildallas · Post #16 » by **evildallas** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:29 am

Gentle breeze? Try a 3 year contract with a buyout clause. We (ASG? Sund?) couldn't get behind offering him enough to come over when he didn't have a buyout clause and we had gaping holes on our bench. This isn't the first flirtation with Andersen that I've watched come and go.

Click Here

You say yourself the Hawks have an eternal need for skilled bigs, but you casually dismiss a potentially available free agent like Krstic this year on the slimmest hope that Andersen might come over in future. I would gladly have accepted the opinion that he's not recovered from injury or perhaps that he'll never be the same again, but saying he's too much like a guy that I thought would really help our team depth and second unit offense doesn't cut it with me.

Krstic isn't my first choice of free agent bigs, but I'm at least considering and evaluating him on the grounds that plans 1 (Diop), 2 (Kwame Brown), and 3 (Patrick O'Bryant) have a good likelihood of signing elsewhere. All these are secondary to my main plan (which probably won't happen) of a little trade with Seattle to get Petro at the cost of Zaza, but that wouldn't help depth as big or bulk, just fit with the team needs. The one thing I'm sure of is that David Andersen isn't going to be helping us this year unless it involves someone giving us something for this rights, which is highly unlikely.

Post #17 » by **Maritimer** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:01 pm

What do you folks think of a Bargnani-Williams swap? Horford-Bargs-Smoove is a frontcourt that complement one another nicely.

Post #18 » by **HMFFL** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:07 pm

Maritimer wrote:What do you folks think of a Bargnani-Williams swap? Horford-Bargs-Smoove is a frontcourt that complement one another nicely.

It's an interesting trade and it can go either way. Both players need to improve on many different aspects of the game but both are still very young. Andrea Bargnani could possibly provide Atlanta with more on offense, but all Marvin needs to do is get a 3 ball, and I give Marvin the edge on defense (err).

If Andrea Bargnani can gain some strength and improve his defense he could be very helpful when trying to cause match-up problems for our opponents. However, Marvin's game just seems to be more stable right now and should continue to be throughout the future. I'd stick with Marvin Williams but he needs to add the 3.