We Need to get....

[KJizzle]

Tony Allen
Kwame Brown
Mickael Pietrus
and give livingston a shot

[ATLfan]

We need to sign the Joshes before we worry about signing other free agents.

[tbhawksfan]

If we're serious about winning, we need to sign a couple legit FA contributors and the Josh's.

[HoopsGuru25]

The Hawks basically got their legit free agent in Bibby. Signing the Joshes will put us close to the luxury tax and I can't blame the ASG for nothing wanting to pay the tax considering more high profile teams like Detroit and Chicago also avoid paying it.

The smartest thing to do(imo) if we are going to go to the FA route and sign minimum contracts is to go after players like Green,Telfair,Livingston,O'Bryant,etc who are still young enough that they may develop into quality rotation players for cheap next year.

[NWO4Life]

I like Pietrus as much as I do Chill... might be more athletic and a better defender than Chill too.

2 names not mentioned here that I like are Louis Williams and Telfair. Not sure if they are restricted or not. (too lazy to look) But young guards that can play...

You could have Josh, Louis, and Kwame for a true Georgia flavor and It wouldn't be just a gimmick for marketing. Louis and Special K would be significant assets to this team.

Biedriens is a another guy to throw in... my edit after thought

[saloonyk8]

I think we'd be looking at "mid-level" or less guys. I think that takes out Louis Williams and Biedrins for sure.

I'd like the guys in this order Pietrus/Kwame/O'Bryant. All could be good role players. Green might not be bad as well. I think Pietrus and Kwame would want the full MLE and we need more than one player though.

I'm also assuming we lose Childress. I'd love to replace him with Pietrus.

[Rip2137]

Telfair isn't going to be a minimum contract guy anymore. I know he played in Minnesota last year but his 9 points and 6 assist aren't the type of numbers that will earn you only the league minimum.

[evildallas]

First post considers Childress:

We need to split the Joshes apart and start talking about them individually. I am fully committed to resigning Josh Smith, but we need to fully consider the Childress situation.

1) We need to define the role we plan for Josh Childress filling for the length of his contract.
2) We need to determine how much money should be committed for filling that role.
3) We need to determine if he is the best fit for that role from the available players (both in talent and price)

If we plan to continue using Josh Childress as the 2-4 substitute, then he is worth that MLE-level contract he'll surely be offered. If we think he'll move to the starting lineup, then he is worth that MLE-level contract. If we think we need a court stretching 3 pt shooter at the 2 or 3 spot or a beefy 4 or a better perimeter defender at the backup 2, then we need consider S&T options for him. Most players people mention in free agency will cost more than the minimum, whether it be a big like Diop or Kwame Brown, a wing man like Pietrus or James Jones, or a PG like Telfair or Udrih. Most of them will require a full MLE to separate us from other bidders. Adding a piece like that might not be possible with signing Childress.

[td00]

Josh Childress will probably get an average of $7M contract, whether it is loaded after Year 1. We are at the cap and ASG will do what they can to stay under that cap even though I think they can exceed it with their own FAs. Chills will be asked to take the ASG discount.
Now, for me to give Chills a long-term would tell Atlanta fans that we aren't using Chills for his shooting abilities, even though he ranked 6th in FG% for bench players last year. But if we lose him, we better have 2 guys that can come in and complement what Chills does on the floor.
My only gripe with Chills is strictly his outside shooting; he looks hesitant to shoot it and the top 5 bench players of last year are mainly shooters that give their team an offensive lift. Either Woody is disgruntled with his shot selection (perhaps it isn't Woody), but Chills would not pull the trigger in last year's playoffs even though he was wide open several times. As far as we got down to Boston, we truly needed a bomber to come in and motivate us. We don't have that and Chills isn't going to become that because he signs a new multiyear contract.
Chills is a good bench player for us, and since we are keeping Marvin, there really is no slot for Chills to start.

As for Smoove, is anyone prepared to lose him? If he doesn't hear the numbers he is expecting, we just might lose him. Now if we do lose him, here is what you have:
Horford/Marvin/Chills/JJ/Bibby - that folks is not a good frontline, making the Josh Smith sweeps so critical to avoid.
We must offer him numbers that he doesn't even take the trip to Philly. If I was Philly or Memphis, I would jump all over Josh and make the ASG up the ante higher than what they wanted to originally. Does Philly have enough resources to scare the ASG? Are they committed to staying under the cap as well? With Smith, they open up questions to what they have with roster salaries as well. Philly and/or Memphis both have a chance to wreck the ASG budget with a big 5 year contract, like Orlando did with Rashard Lewis. Whether Smith is worth or not is irrelevant now; the ASG has put themselves in a difficult spot to succeed.

[evildallas]

Second post concerns the luxury tax.

We will need to be ready exceed the luxury tax threshold for 1 season, but not by signing a big free agent. Really, we need Speedy to retire for medical reasons to get a little relieve against the luxury tax, but until that happens here is my luxury tax theory.

2008-2009 contracts
Bibby 15M
JJ 14.2M
Speedy 5.8M
Marvin 5.6M
Zaza 4M
Al 4M
Acie 2M
Solomon 0.8M
Josh Smith est 11M
Josh Childress est 6M

Total 68.4 M

2009-2010 contracts
JJ 15M
Speedy 5.2M
Marvin 7.4M (qualifying offer)
Al 4.3M
Acie 2.2M
Josh Smith est 12M
Josh Childress est 6.6M

Total 51.7 M (Bibby, Solomon, Zaza expire)

The luxury tax threshold is approx. 69M (might change), we'll likely have to exceed it just to sign the Joshes (or do a S&T) and minimum salary players to finish out the lineup. If Speedy retires we can afford to add one nice piece to the roster. If not it is very tight this year, but if we don't add a piece we are realistically risking the waste of Bibby's contract drive year. The thing is that if we exceed the luxury tax he'll cost twice as much. The positive thing is that with so much coming off the cap any tax would likely be for this year only. The ASG need to weight that as a possible strategy. I would never ask a team to enter long term overspending like the Knicks, Mavericks, and Suns did. However, it might be worth exceeding the tax for one year to help the team on the right path and in the playoffs because only success is going to keep the fan base growing.

In 2009-2010, it seems logical that Solomon would be gone unless he finally proved himself able to stay on the court and contribute even then he is a likely 2-3M player. Bibby is due a salary reduction if he stays at all. I fully expect him to be gone because I don't think we'll be able to agree to a contract fair to both sides. At his age/health the later part of any contract is likely going to be him being overpaid. He is likely to sign an MLE deal with someone, but pride often prevents athletes from signing the discount with the team that just finished paying them a big salary. Zaza is less expensive than some other backup bigs (Pryzbilla, Gadzuric to name 2), but much like them he isn't exactly earning his salary right now. I wouldn't expect a discount on him since International ball could conceivably bid for his services. If we decide to resign Marvin we have room to match over the qualifying offer. It's up in the air what the price would be and whether he'd be worth it.

[NWO4Life]

God...it's never been so glaring how Speedy just wrecked our ability to improve. He is the BK ghost that we can't shake free of. Not CP or DW.

[Harry10]

i would love to get Kwame, i just hope that somebody doesn't offer him something more than the MLE

if the Hawks can't get Kwame for cheap, then maybe the Hawks can get Swift cheap

i see Livingston getting paid slightly more than what is value is because of his age, but i would also love to give this guy a shot

[conleyorbust]

First post considers Childress:

We need to split the Joshes apart and start talking about them individually. I am fully committed to resigning Josh Smith, but we need to fully consider the Childress situation.

1) We need to define the role we plan for Josh Childress filling for the length of his contract.
2) We need to determine how much money should be committed for filling that role.
3) We need to determine if he is the best fit for that role from the available players (both in talent and price)

If we plan to continue using Josh Childress as the 2-4 substitute, then he is worth that MLE-level contract he'll surely be offered. If we think he'll move to the starting lineup, then he is worth that MLE-level contract. If we think we need a court stretching 3 pt shooter at the 2 or 3 spot or a beefy 4 or a better perimeter defender at the backup 2, then we need consider S&T options for him. Most players people mention in free agency will cost more than the minimum, whether it be a big like Diop or Kwame Brown, a wing man like Pietrus or James Jones, or a PG like Telfair or Udrih. Most of them will require a full MLE to separate us from other bidders. Adding a piece like that might not be possible with signing Childress.

The way I think of it is: what are our needs with or without Childress? The answer is basically the same, we need shooters, defensive rebounders, and perimeter defenders. Chil doesn't really answer any of those. The next question is: what do we lose when we lose Childress? We lose a wing player who gets most of his points inside, doesn't waste possessions but doesn't create his own shot, a GREAT offensive rebounder for his position. Is it possible to fill those holes? Not to the extent that Childress does but I'm of the opinion that Al and Josh can cover some of the garbage bucket slack that we'd miss if Chil weren't there. Smith wouldn't take as many jumpers if we stationed him where Chil sets up which would reduce the amount of offensive rebounds to be collected anyway.

I do think Chil does a lot for the team but if he is going to command a +$6m dollar a year contract, we might be better off splitting that money into multiple bench players that can fill a few of our holes.

Of course, I'm assuming ASG doesn't want to exceed the lux tax by any significant amount. If they don't care than I'd have to rethink all that.

[Skyhawk1]

I really don't like the idea of adding guys like K. Brown. He's done nothing throughtout his carreer. Just because you're 7ft/260lbs, it doesn't mean you're you can play in the NBA. The guy has serious issues on his game and his mind. I'm more concerned in keeping both Joshes at a very reasonable price. I think anything over 11 M for J. Smith is enough reason to consider a S&T. The same thing goes for J. Childress if he gets more than 7M a season. The thing here becomes which teams would be willing to give them that much money and what players could be available. I still think we got to work hard to find JJ a reliable back up. We're wearing this guy down every night and he's our best player, after that, try to add another big man if possible. I mean, you got a 14 M expiring contract in Bibby, Zaza on the last year of his deal, and a youngster in Marvin. These pieces together plus fillers should be enough to get you something valuable in return.

[td00]

Well, Portland has Outlaw and Webster and James Jones is a FA. I would like to see any of these guys in a Hawks uniform next year. I don't think any of them would cost what Marvin or Chills will.

We need to supplant ourselves with trying to get 2 quality players for one; is there an opportunity to replace Chills with 2 guys that can complement the big 3 of Al, JJ and Smoove?

Same goes for Marvin before his qualifying offer is due. 2 players getting $3M would be more beneficial than have 1 $6M player, dependant of course on who it ends up being.
But the bench needs a lot of improvement, and it might take one starter and/or one 6th or 7th man to do just that.

[niffoc4]

I think Chill may have to go... I doubt the Hawks will do the lux-tax to keep him, so we'll see. Maybe a
S&T for a cheaper wing and a player with a non-guaranteed contract?

[evildallas]

We need to supplant ourselves with trying to get 2 quality players for one; is there an opportunity to replace Chills with 2 guys that can complement the big 3 of Al, JJ and Smoove?

This has been what I've been preaching. Maybe I've been too greedy (I was asking for a 3 for 1), but I still see Portland as having the pieces to do it.

Childress S&T
to Portland for
Martell Webster or S&T of James Jones
and
Ike Diogu or Channing Frye

Any combination of those guys means about $7M in salary next year. You get a wing that shoots 3s (Jones 44%, Webster 39%) and a back up PF to get some rebounds.

If we could do something similar with Zaza and a pick going to Seattle for Petro and Wilkins then we actually populate an entire bench with NBA players and have some shooters (Webster and Wilkins), some beef (Diogu), and some height/shot blocking (Petro). Then when we bring in a sub maybe Smith can stay at PF and not get stationed at the 3 pt line.

We get the year to see if Marvin develops into a stud and if not we will have less expensive options at our disposal.

[killbuckner]

Portland is set to significantly under teh cap next offseason- I think they very well may prefer Webster to Childress