Lakers weakest link is SF

[MikeyMike]

The old proverb goes, "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link". This Laker team's weakest link is SF.

Why?

The Lakers' guard stable is extremely strong with Kobe, Fish, Vujacic, and Farmar.
Bigman department also looks pretty decent with Bynum, Gasol, Odom (He is a PF, not SF), and Turiaf.
Swingman position has got Space Cadet, Walton, and Ariza.


Now, if you don't include Kobe as a SF, Ariza is the best 3 on the team. Surely you would all agree he is better than Luke or Space Cadet, right? He is the most athletic; fastest, strongest, best hops. Defense is pretty solid. He can dunk and finish extremely well. Problem is his jumpshot is rather suspect.

Despite all of this, Ariza simply cannot be counted on because of his injury prone nature. I am a UCLA and Knicks fan and have followed him throughout his career. I've always loved him as a player but I just feel that he can't be counted on as a starter because of his bad feet.

As other posters on this board have pointed out (Erik, Miles, etc..), Lakers were manhandled by Pierce and the outcome of those Finals might have been a bit different if Pierce didn't go off the way he did. I made a post on the Celtics board prior to the series calling Pierce out a the X-factor of the series, sure enough he was. Ended becoming the MVP.

In short, Lakers look good at all positions except SF, it really needs to be addressed desperately if a ring is the end game here...good luck Mitch, you're going to have to put in a lot of OT to fix this mess.

[tkb]

Lamar Odom is the best small forward on this team, and point guard is our weakest position IMO.

[MikeyMike]

Interesting, I don't see Lamar as a SF...he's too big and not fast enough, nor is he a good enough outside shooter. But sure, he's got good ball handling skills so I see how some one might mistake him for a SF...but truth is he is a PF.

PG the weakest? I think D-Fish and Farmar are pretty decent. Definitely not the best in the league by any means, but definitely decent. I think way better equipped than SF.

[tkb]

Lamar does refer to SF as his "natural position", and with Gasol and Bynum in the lineup he has to play there a lot. Personally I think Odom/Ariza at 3 > Fisher/Farmar at 1.

[jorge]

One needs to be traded. Luke or Vlad. It's just hard to find a team that would take one of them. I think next season the SF Position will be occupied by Ariza, Walton or Radman, Lamar and Kobe

1. Option: Trade for a C. We don't know if DJ will be in LA next season and who knows how long Mhim will be healthy.

2. Option: Take Kwame back and trade for a PG.

[Luxury]

Final minutes of the 4th Quarter, Kobe is our SF. I didn't know SF was our weakest link.

[milesfides]

It's always been point guard, ever since Nick Van Exel left.

Kobe's just been playing point guard instead of small forward out of team necessity.

Get a good point guard, and Boston can't defend the Lakers the same way they did in the Finals.

Why do you guys think Cleveland keeps looking for a point guard despite Lebron's talent as a passer and playmaker?

[YiYaoYue]

odom with posey and ariza off the bench... ship out vlad and walton for expiring contract.

[Danny Darko]

sign posey move lamar for billups maybe with a third team we could help the Pistons move Prince and also ditch Vlad or Luke

[Erik Eleven]

odom with posey and ariza off the bench... ship out vlad and walton for expiring contract.

I like the sound of that.

Whether we think Odom is a three or not, he will see a lot of time at the three next season. I guess that makes him a SF.

Defensively, Odom is a very good three. If we would have started Fish, Kobe, Odom, Gasol and Bynum against the Celtics, Pierce wouldn't have had the same impact in that series. Clearly, Pierce was indeed going to be the X factor of that series because we simply didn't have anyone to stop him. But that was largely so because we had to put Odom/Gasol on KG/Perkins, defensively. If Odom had free reign to go after Pierce, leaving Bynum and Gasol to handle the paint, KG would have been the MVP instead.

If we can sign Posey for the MLE, we must immediately see what our chances to land Billups are. I'd trade Odom and Farmar for Billups in a heartbeat (assuming we had Posey).

All of a sudden, this team would be extremely tough to beat:

Billups/Fisher/Crawford
Bryant/Vujacic/Karl
Posey/Ariza/Luke
Gasol/Turiaf/Radman
Bynum/Mihm/Mbenga

With Billups and Posey roaming the three point line, a lot of room opens up for Kobe to drive. If they collapse, they'll have to pay the price from the outside. If they recover to the outside, hand the ball to Bynum or Pau in the middle. That's a complete roster, right there. Probably pipe, though.

[supaflash]

I really like the Billups deal, just like I would have like Baron IF we signed a good SF first. Granted, even without a SF signing, its still a good trade and a formidable team, but while I love Ariza I'm not convinced either that he's starter material yet. He's definitely capable and it is a contract year though so we shall see. His shot looked good there at the end, but he needs some work. He'd probably be enough because in the closing minutes it would likely be Billups, Fish, Kobe, Pau and Bynum. Now suddenly Kobe doesn't have to create the shot necessarily and you can't key just on him, plus when he does have the ball that is two deadly clutch shooters and two easy lobs for a dunk that you cannot leave. Mmmm Mmmm....

That's one of the problems with the triangle, not having any real set plays can get hairy against good defenses, especially when you only have one guy that can penetrate and create his own shot. That's why I think it also works if we get a good scoring SF like Maggs or RJ. Both guys are good enough defenders to get the job done, especially with two 7 footers behind them. I think RJ is still in play as well if they can't sign a guy.

I'm also not completely sure why everyone is so high on Posey. Yes he's good and probably worth it, but if you really look at what he did in Boston's run I'm not so sure he'd be my top target. He's a little old, I'd rather get the next Posey. He's a good defender, but he was also getting abused by Kobe and Bron, he just had great help all around him. Definitely a clutch guy and does all the dirty work, but I'm still not sure its worth a long deal over some of the other guys available. I'd rather get Maggette, Pietrus, or Childress probably over Posey to be honest. I wouldn't mind having him, and hell if we did we probably would have won, but I'd be a little dissapointed if the team didn't make a great effort at these other guys first. I still think that Pietrus is just playing time away from being a really nice player.

[Luxury]

It's always been point guard, ever since Nick Van Exel left.

Kobe's just been playing point guard instead of small forward out of team necessity.

Get a good point guard, and Boston can't defend the Lakers the same way they did in the Finals.

Why do you guys think Cleveland keeps looking for a point guard despite Lebron's talent as a passer and playmaker?

That's actually something I've thought about. Celtics had great defenders (individually and collectively) on almost all positions except for the 1, but credit Rondo for some great defense in certain moments. I think players like Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Monta Ellis and etc could do some major damage against the Celtics causing the defense to completely collapse. Farmar did a good job exploiting some of those weaknesses as he was able to get some free lay ups. Imagine CP3 and the other top PG's in the league.

Farmar and Bynum are really our best bet to beat the Celtics. If the Celtics gives them a little respect, that might be the key to opening up Kobe's game.

[supaflash]

Oh and I guess the point I was trying to make is that its neither PG or SF, its not having another perimeter player that can create a shot for himself or other players. Another perimeter defender would definitely help, but I firmly believe that yes even Vlad and Luke, more so to Ariza and LO though are capable of playing, not great defense, but enough D to get the job done. . But I don't believe any of them can run the offense and get a shot themselves or a wide open one for a teammate. Farmar and LO are ok in transition, but not in a half court set against a solid D. When the Bulls were great, they got by with average defenders at some positions at times when they were all solid as a team, but it was Pippen's ability to bring the ball up, run the O and either get the ball to MJ in a better scoring position or when needed get his own shot or create one. Lamar just doesn't quite have that ability right now. I think he's got the skills to do so and I'd love to see Phil try him at the Point-Forward type spot but its just not quite happening yet.

When Boston locked in on Kobe and basically did box and 1 to shut him down, they were good enough defensively to still stay true on the other guys as well. Even as bad PP was killing us, do you think that if we had 1 other guy that scored a few buckets and got a few assists at those times when Kobe was locked up and cold that we wouldn't have won? Hell game 4 with a 20 pt lead in the 3rd, if one guy steps up and makes ONE play to stop that momentum LA probably wins that game pretty easy. Kind of like how 1 play from Pierce getting to the line at the end of game 2 ended our run. Now imagine a guy that can consistently get shots off and get to the line.

The only time I've ever seen teams win titles with really only 1 guy that can create a shot is when they had a big man that was just so dominant that he had to be doubled nearly every touch. (Teams with Shaq and Hakeem are the only ones that come to mind) As good as Pau can be this is simply not the case with him.

[MikeyMike]

^Good post.

[milesfides]

Odom did try the guard role in the first year under Phil Jackson. That was the season that Kobe scored 35 a game, 81 against Toronto, 62 against the Mavs, etc. But Odom has always been an inconsistent halfcourt playmaker. He's an open court playmaker, streetball style. Execution, reaction, cutting, moving without the ball, post entry, no. Those are just not part of his playmaking skill set.

On broken plays, Odom can be brilliant. In the triangle offense, he's been a failure. Ultimately, under pressure, such as in the playoffs, Odom has shown that he's unable to assume the role of a primary facilitator, which is why when push comes to shove, Odom will dribble, dribble, dribble at the top of the key until Kobe comes out and gets it.

I like Farmar but his role has been reduced to that of a sixth man scorer, like Pargo, Lue, Eddie House. He has no major playmaking duties whatsoever. Fisher never had it, not in his first stint with the Lakers, not with Golden State, not with Utah, not with the current Lakers. He's always been an undersized shooting guard.

Kobe has never had the luxury of playing next to a real ballhandler, playmaker. Shaw and Harper were the closest, but they were aging and had reduced roles. A lot of people don't know how much Kobe had to sacrifice to play this role - it was one of the main problems between him and Phil Jackson, as well as one of the reasons why he wanted to test free agency back in the 2003 season.

People have become accustomed to Kobe's role as a playmaker/scorer whenever the situation arises, and certainly he's had some success in that, but ultimately, it's a limitation of his individual abilities and more importantly, our team.

We got a taste of how devastating Kobe was at the wing in the 2005-2006 season. We're wasting that. All we need to do is get a CAPABLE ballhandling and passing guard. Chucky Atkins, Smush Parker, Fish, and Farmar - that's a crime. Odom was failed experiment. It's a real disgrace.

It's like using a ferrari to haul a trailer.

[Slava]

Borat, that reminds me of a deal that I've been pushing for since all star break last season.

How about Odom and Farmar for Hinrich and Nocioni? Gives us the starting PG for our system and probably the perfect 3 outside may be Shane Battier or Tay Prince.

Bynum/Mihm/Mbenga
Gasol/Turiaf/Rad
Nocioni/Ariza/Luke
Bryant/Sasha/Coby
Hinrich/Fisher/Yue

Now thats a stacked roster by just re-signing our FAs after that.

[LAkersWorld1]

Second post...

How about proposing a deal with Indiana. I've already mentioned it on the trade thread, but here is the ID and trade: 4702084 (LAL: L.O. & L. Walton for M. Dunleavy, M. Daniels, Ike Diogu)

Wanted to see what you guys thought...
Thanks.

[hermes]

welcome aboard

and are you going to announce what number post your on every time?

[LAkersWorld1]

Much appreciated... I Thought it could be my delivery pitch to every post.