Danny Ainge's & Wyc Grousbeck's Biggest 2007 Blunder

[Kefa461]

I'll put my trust in Danny for a season after the moves he's made he's got NBA capital to spend.....

[theman]

If not signing Posey to a longer deal (and we are not sure Posey would have wanted to) was Danny's biggest mistake, I'd say he had a pretty good season.

[Athanacropolis]

If not signing Posey to a longer deal (and we are not sure Posey would have wanted to) was Danny's biggest mistake, I'd say he had a pretty good season.

I generally don't get that into the business side of basketball, so I usually just skim threads like this, but this thread has been really interesting, and I have to agree with theman (being the man, and all) who puts it into layman's terms that even a dope like me can understand.

I'm pretty sure that, with or without Posey (hopefully with), the Celtics will be a contender next year.

[tombattor]

Maggette may be a more skilled player than Posey, but Posey with the big 3 is a proven winning combination. Individual skills matter, but so does chemistry and ability to mesh as a team. People are way too easily impressed by great one-on-one players with good individual offensive skills. There is no doubt, as a main option, Maggette is a much better player than Posey, with his quickness, athleticism, etc., he can get to the rim at will and is even a good shooter. However, Maggette was never a good defender and even with his athleticism, he fails to play tough D on players with inferior athleticism. Posey on the other hand, may not be the greatest offensive one-on-one player, but he plays tough D and basically does everything you ask of your 6th man.

You have to realize how a player fits into the team. You don't just go out and sign the best one-on-one players with the prettiest offensive skills because we won this year's title with team defense, not one-on-one offense.

Besides, why **** with something that works? It's not like Posey is on his last leg. If he prices us out, then that's one thing, but Posey has to be our priority this offseason.

[MyInsatiableOne]

^^tombattor, I agree with you. Posey fits and is perfect for the system.

[celticfan42487]

Signing Posey for a longer deal would of been a mistake. Posey was slightly underpaid, but imagine if the team didn't win it, or if we lost in the first round. Then he would be underpaid and pissed off.

a 1 year deal is the right move financially and was the right move for Posey as a person.

[theman]

I think a bigger mistake was not signing Thibodeau to a longer deal.

[celticfan42487]

Yeah that's true. I don't think Thibs would accept more then one year though. Like Posey the field had dried up at that point so he was just looking for the best situation for a year then try his hand again.

[GuyClinch]

You have to realize how a player fits into the team. You don't just go out and sign the best one-on-one players with the prettiest offensive skills because we won this year's title with team defense, not one-on-one offense.

This is kind of what people said about pairing KG/RA/PP - you know too many basketball - too many stars - not enough roleplayers. Truth is you don't know how Corey would mesh on this team. It's not even a given that he and not RA would come off the bench.

It's pretty inside the box thinking to think all we have to do to win next year is bring the same guys back. They might not have that intensity they had the first year. Teams might scout them better and so on. I will take my chances with Corey instead of Posey.

he is coming off a long stint of losing with the Clippers and would be revitalized by playing on a relevant winning team again..

Pete

[sully00]

I love how a guy who avg 7/4 is like having 3 guys on the bench but a guy who averages 20/5 isn't.

I love James Posey, but his game is so overrated right now. He is a great team defender and he plays the game with great effort and he takes charges and commmits hard fouls. But he is not that good a one on one defender. To be honest he is a lot like Walter McCarty in a lot of ways a lot more physical but very simliar guy.

Posey is a great role player and for that he should be paid accoridingly. Think about all the guys who got silly contracts after winning a title, Damon Jones for instance, and about 5 games into the next season their new team is saying "what the hell is this." Guess what Jones got about 3.5 mil a year.

[Fitness Guy]

The faulty original premise of this thread is that the Celtics were being stingy by offering 1 year to Posey and House last year. Please refresh memory if wrong, but I don't remember reading anything about the specifics of the negotiations. My point is: how do you know what THE PLAYERS wanted? Remember, we were coming off a 24 win season, with a recent history of failure. With Allen and KG on board, it was a given that the Celtics would be better, but how much better (weren't some non Celtics predicting 45 wins)? It might have been a good deal from the player's point of view to take 1 year, and see how things went. So, maybe the Celtics did offer more, and were turned down. Either way, they just won the damn championship, the top of the mountain, and, with or without Posey and House, will be competitive in the upcoming years, so you can't complain. This is not the Florida Marlins 1998 (won championship, then sold off the team) we're talking about.................

[3pt %]

Winning cures all ills.

We losr in the 7th to Atlanta and everyone wants to completely rejigg the team.

Massive role of the dice by the owners and if we lsot in the 1st round, you think they wouldn't want substantial changes? And those changes would come from dealing the big 3? Only if someone else wanted them.

Flexibilty, see the spurs.

Boo yah.

[Jammer]

The faulty original premise of this thread is that the Celtics were being stingy by offering 1 year to Posey and House last year. Please refresh memory if wrong, but I don't remember reading anything about the specifics of the negotiations. My point is: how do you know what THE PLAYERS wanted ... So, maybe the Celtics did offer more, and were turned down.

Pay attention.

When the KG trade went down, Doc and Danny called Eddie House to offer him a rotation position (backup PG). A one year deal for $1.5 million was agreed upon. The contract was signed in a matter of days, USING THE MLE (not the LLE, as the original post explained, and was obvious last August).

Now, Posey was asking the Miami Heat for $6 Million, which was comparable to his 2007 salary of $6 Million.

When the Celtics only had $3.2 Million to offer (since they were using a portion of the remaining MLE money to give Gabe Pruitt a 3 year contract instead of a 2 year contract), the Heat only offered Posey his "market value", which the Heat defined as the Celtics offer.

For some reason, Cleveleand, who Posey expressed interest in, did not make an offer last summer (probably complicated by Varajao and Pavlovic's contract situation's.

Also, the Nets were talking to Posey, but for unexplained reasons (at least to me), those talks broke down.

Posey was extremely upset that the Heat were trying to cut his salary from $6 Million to the Celtic offer of $3.2 Million, since he argued that he was the same player.

Posey decided to sign with the Celtics. The second year player option was added as insurance for Posey in case of an injury. Posey and his agent made it clear that in their view, the Celtics were getting a value signing (Posey believed his value was close to his 2007 salary of $6 Million, which the full MLE would have been close to, especially once you add 8% raises to future years.

Again, by using part of the MLE to sign Eddie House, and not the LLE, Posey would not commit to a longer term deal with the Celtics since he felt he was worth more than $3.2 million.

Had the full MLE been available (or closer to it), Posey would have been willing to commit long term.

Apparently the Celtics, who were targeting Posey, knew they could limit him to one year by offering only part of the MLE. Had they wanted to make a long term deal, they would have had to use the LLE on House.

They eliminated the option 3 weeks before the Posey signing when they signed House, but they were aware of it when they did. My position at the time was that it was a blunder, and I still feel that way.

I also felt signing House for one year and not two was a mistake, since as a shooter superb, if he had a good year, despite his limitations, I knew he'd probably command close to $3 million to re-sign him. That's exactly what happened. That's why I still say House should have been locked up for two years last year. It was the biggest paycheck of his career by a lot. House would have signed for two years.

[MyInsatiableOne]

Danny and Wyc's biggest blunder of the 2007-08 season can be summed up in two words:

Sam

Cassell

End of story.

[GuyClinch]

Pay attention.

Blah. Blah Blah. Garbage thread dude. You don't know Posey and House would have played the same way if they weren't in contract years. We sign them up for longer deals - we don't win a championship and you would bitch that we could have had Corey Maggette with the MLE this year.

Posey's play this year was a big FU to all the teams that didn't sign him last year. He came to us out of spite for Miami and others trying to short change him. I am sure it worked for him - and for us. I would hardly call that a "blunder."

The only blunder here is this thread.

Pete

[MyInsatiableOne]

Pay attention.

Blah. Blah Blah. Garbage thread
dude. You don't know Posey and House would have played the same way if
they weren't in contract years. We sign them up for longer deals - we
don't win a championship and you would bitch that we could have had
Corey Maggette with the MLE this year.

Posey's play this year
was a big FU to all the teams that didn't sign him last year. He came
to us out of spite for Miami and others trying to short change him. I
am sure it worked for him - and for us. I would hardly call that a
"blunder."

The only blunder here is this thread.

Pete

And true.

As I said, Danny's biggest blunder was Sam Cassell. End of story.

[3pt %]

Danny and Wyc's biggest blunder of the 2007-08 season can be summed up in two words:

Sam

Cassell

End of story.

QFT

[tlee324]

I think Maggette would obviously be a fine addition from an offensive point of view, but it's clear that we're losing big on the defensive end with the loss of Posey. Posey's versatility defensively was greatly helpful to this team, and he hit timely 3 pointers. This team won games primarily on defense and efficient shooting/scoring, which is exactly what Posey brought to the table. Maggette will give us new dimensions primarily from the offensive end, but we're still going to need him or someone else to replace what Posey brought defensively if we're to be as strong on that end as we were this year.