I'll say it again....

Jjforprez · Post #1 » by **Jjforprez** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 4:10 am

Jarvis Hayes. We need to go after this guy. Both the Suns and Spurs have interest in him. These are good teams that know how to find good players. They know what Jarvis Hayes can do.

The Hawks never seem to be in the mix for good players. I can't figure out if they just don't have the personnell to recognize good talent, or they would rather just wait around to pick up the leftover garbage. No wonder we can't build a good bench.

killbuckner · Post #2 » by **killbuckner** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 4:25 am

uhhh... shouldn't you let the new guy try and build a bench before you say he can't do it? BK couldn't build a bench.

smabie · Post #3 » by **smabie** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 11:01 am

BK might have built a bench, we don't know one way or the other since someone else barely plays them...

killbuckner · Post #4 » by **killbuckner** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 11:18 am

If I had such a crappy bench I wouldn't have played them either.

FCNATL85 · Post #5 » by **FCNATL85** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 2:27 pm

pb is that ATL need to sign JS and JC fairly quickly and then spend what is left...if any on maybe one FA; Jarvis or rush + abig man...1

High 5 · Post #6 » by **High 5** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 2:39 pm

killbuckner wrote:If I had such a crappy bench I wouldn't have played them either.

Yeah, it's much better to keep your starters out there when they're getting clobbered. Woodson is a joke, why do you continue to make excuses for him?

killbuckner · Post #7 » by **killbuckner** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 2:42 pm

what excuse am I making for him? Woodson had a bench with only 1 useful player on it- I don't see why its making excuses for Woodson to say that.

smabie · Post #8 » by **smabie** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 3:34 pm

We don't know that it had only one useful player on it, he never used them enough to know ANYTHING about the bloody bench. You can't expect anyone to play well consistently when they aren't played consistently, and once a fortnight isn't consistent. When they came in and played well, they'd sit two weeks. When they came in and played poorly, they'd sit two weeks. Not much incentive or motivation there, hmm?

The Hawks 12-man bench is better than half the teams in the league who used a regular 10-man rotation; I'd consider even going 13, but since the only time we got to see JRich was when he was playing D-League, it's hard to say....

Rip2137 · Post #9 » by **Rip2137** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 4:32 pm

Still the wierdest argument ever. Woody never uses his bench...He doesn't because they suck!....how do you know that they suck when he doesn't play them....well, he can't play them because they suck therefore they must suck and that is the reason they aren't playing.

No matter what you think, I think everyone can agree that a better coach would have gotten more use out of the guys we have on our bench.

reazun · Post #10 » by **reazun** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 7:06 pm

Rip2137 wrote:Still the wierdest argument ever. Woody never uses his bench...He doesn't because they suck!....how do you know that they suck when he doesn't play them....well, he can't play them because they suck therefore they must suck and that is the reason they aren't playing.

No matter what you think, I think everyone can agree that a better coach would have gotten more use out of the guys we have on our bench.

I agree, they suck partly because Woodson sucks and doesnt know how to develop his young guys to NBA calibur level. Booooo Woodson

killbuckner · Post #11 » by **killbuckner** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 7:15 pm

the debate will be settled once these guys go to other teams. So far we have seen Shelden move on to no improvement. Time will tell.

Rip2137 · Post #12 » by **Rip2137** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 7:29 pm

That horrible draft bust Boris Diaw certainaly got better. And Sheldon was traded to a team that apparently thinks they can build a championship team with only centers and power forwards.

Spencer Hawes, Miki Moore, Brad Miller, Sheldon Williams, Shareef Abdur Rahiem, Kenny Thomas....wow. That should work guys...

But seriously, he averaged 8-6 in 23 minutes a game to close out the season. Say what you want, 8-6 from a back up big would have been welcome on this team.

JoshB914 · Post #13 » by **JoshB914** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 9:38 pm

Woodson doesn't play his bench because there is no one good on the bench. It's that simple. No one wants to answer this question, but would you play a bunch of unproven young players when you are fighting for your job?

td00 · Post #14 » by **td00** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 9:56 pm

I am clear about 2 things:

1) BK struggled in the draft and in bringing in players that could still play.....Do we need to list the names?
2) Woody struggles with coaching and his player rotations.

Both are to blame for us being at 37-45. It took them 4 years to get to where we are today when it should only take 1-2 to get to 37 wins.
We'll see how Woody does this year. Both he and Sund are telling us players 1-8 are solid. They want to improve 9-12. I think that is part of the problem here. No one understands how to build a 'championship' team. Gearon himself states he wants to build a 'competitive' team.
Everyone here sees the problems except ASG.

Rip2137 · Post #15 » by **Rip2137** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 9:59 pm

Josh, how can you have a proven guy without letting him prove himself? Most of our bench has been there for years. He doesn't play them. thats why they are unproven.

JoshB914 · Post #16 » by **JoshB914** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 10:07 pm

What? I'm going to go through on the bench and then we can discuss just how much "experience" there was.

Players on the bench: Chill (3-years who played), Zaza (3 years who played), Law (unproven rookie who struggled), Solomon (2nd year player who is still unbelievably raw and should have been in the d-league), Salim (3rd year player who never proved to be consistent enough to warrant a lot of minutes), Rio (undrafted rookie who was only on the team for his hard work and tenacious D), J-Rich (a career d-league player who had never been in the league on more than a 10-day contract before).

So there were three guys on the bench who have been here for three years. And two of them played. Now out of the rest of those guys, which ones would you play with your job on the line? I know that Woody was conservative by simply going with the guys he had, but that was the choice he made because if those guys fail then he's looking for a job right now.

MikeRice · Post #17 » by **MikeRice** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 11:44 pm

I still think Salim will catch on somewhere and have some success in the league, much like Boris Diaw did, and make us look like idiots for never playing him

although I still don't blame us for Diaw, we gave him as many minutes as you could for a guy who simply refused to shoot and was borderline uncoachable... hands down my least favorite player in the NBA

killbuckner · Post #18 » by **killbuckner** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 3:39 am

Salim didn't even get a qualifying offer because the Hawks were afraid he would take it.

raleigh · Post #19 » by **raleigh** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 5:59 am

killbuckner wrote:Salim didn't even get a qualifying offer because the Hawks were afraid he would take it.

killbuckner · Post #20 » by **killbuckner** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 11:33 am

But yeah- this is yet another datapoint for whether Salim sucks or whether Woodson sucks for not playing him. He is an unrestricted free agent and can go to whatever team in the league (or whichever league) fits him the best. I wish him the best of luck finding a better fit.