This Organization always comes off looking like a joke.

[Magoose]

Basically all you're missing (assuming that Love pans out to at least an adequate player) is a defensive minded center who can bring energy, along with another year or two of experience/improvement from Jefferson, Brewer and Foye. I'm not sure there's another team in a pure rebuilding mode right now that can say they are in as good a spot.

Disagree...

I think (and I think most of us do) that this franchise does need more than a defensive minded center. This franchise needs a superstar type of player. Mayo could emerge as this desperately needed superstar. That's why most of us were (still are) upset.

And there's another team in rebuilding mode that excels at nearly every position: Just take a look at the Trailblazers. That's what I call a smart front office (with a bit of luck, though).

To put in a nutshell: Yes, I think the wolves are still right on track but the gap to portland obviously grew since draft day with portland drafting two very good prospects for positions they were weak at.

[Kurosawa]

"That's why most of us were (still are) upset."

Wrong, Magoose...most of us are NOT upset. If you'd been paying attention, you'd have noticed how many posters have come around and recognized how good this trade really was.

The naysayers and the hard-core critics can't seem to disabuse themselves of the perception that somehow O.J. Mayo is destined for stardom. Despite all the evidence to the contrary--his lack of explosiveness; his inability to beat guys off the dribble consistently; his inefficient scoring (44% shooting percentage from inside the COLLEGE three-point line)--they cling to the belief that he's the next coming of Kobe and LeBron.

The head of this thread alludes to this organization being a joke. Actually, it's the critics who are increasingly coming off as the joke.

[captain_cheapseats]

Disagree...

I think (and I think most of us do) that this franchise does need more than a defensive minded center. This franchise needs a superstar type of player. Mayo could emerge as this desperately needed superstar. That's why most of us were (still are) upset.

Fair enough.....you of course know more about the T-Wolves and relative qualities of the players thereon than I would, so I'll take your word for it. But I will point out a couple of things, just to make sure we're on the same page:

#1: when I said "all you need" I meant in terms of becoming a competitive, playoff bound team, not NBA champs.

#2: the Portland comparison isn't fair....you've been rebuilding for less than a year now, while they've been at for quite some time. In fact I'm not sure you can even call them a rebuilding team anymore.

[Dewey]

Grinding on the old same stuff:

Mayo and Jefferson = Instant star power ... If Mayo was a "PG" that was keen on the assist category. he's very good at creating offense for himself - not his teammates.

Looking like a joke? ... I just don't see it. Hoiberg stated the current fact: "Mayo is the guy" (Memphis had turned down any deals earlier in the evening). I'm not sure what else he should've said, knowing that all previous trade discussions were off.

This trade is great if our youngs guys (Foye, McCants, and Brewer) develop. I don't think Hoiberg will argue.

[Magoose]

"That's why most of us were (still are) upset."

Wrong, Magoose...most of us are NOT upset. If you'd been paying attention, you'd have noticed how many posters have come around and recognized how good this trade really was.

The naysayers and the hard-core critics can't seem to disabuse themselves of the perception that somehow O.J. Mayo is destined for stardom. Despite all the evidence to the contrary--his lack of explosiveness; his inability to beat guys off the dribble consistently; his inefficient scoring (44% shooting percentage from inside the COLLEGE three-point line)--they cling to the belief that he's the next coming of Kobe and LeBron.

The head of this thread alludes to this organization being a joke. Actually, it's the critics who are increasingly coming off as the joke.

Don't get me wrong. Of course I noticed winds of change around here after all's been said and done and the first upset vanished. And I'm not convinced that it would have been wise to keep Mayo around. But I'm quite sure, that there's higher percentage Mayo could emerge as the superstar this franchise (every franchise, that wants to be a title contender) needs.

I see Love more than a precious player coming off the bench in the long run if both Al and Love stay with the wolves.

I'm just not sure, that the wolves get another opportunity to get their hands on a superstar type of player (if you think of the lack of attractivity to free agents) and that's what worries me most. If you want to contend we all know you need at least two all-star caliber players in your team and one alpha leader. And I think that neither Miller nor Love could fill out on of these roles.

If McHale told me today that he will lure some superstar type of player with free agency to the TwinCities and draft some defensive-minded center to start with the team in the next two years, I would be happy with this trade. But as it's now, I'm not convinced yet.

[Magoose]

Disagree...

I think (and I think most of us do) that this franchise does need more than a defensive minded center. This franchise needs a superstar type of player. Mayo could emerge as this desperately needed superstar. That's why most of us were (still are) upset.

Fair enough.....you of course know more about the T-Wolves and relative qualities of the players thereon than I would, so I'll take your word for it. But I will point out a couple of things, just to make sure we're on the same page:

#1: when I said "all you need" I meant in terms of becoming a competitive, playoff bound team, not NBA champs.

#2: the Portland comparison isn't fair....you've been rebuilding for less than a year now, while they've been at for quite some time. In fact I'm not sure you can even call them a rebuilding team anymore.

#1: ok: Well I'm about winning and I think that's what the FO is aiming for in the long run. Personally I don't want to be a playoff bound team that usually gets its butt kicked at the latest in the 1st PO round (Remember the KG years?) .

#2: Yeah the Portland comparison might be not too fair. And yes Portland is rebuilding for, well maybe 4 or 5 seasons. But I think Portland's the franchise to beat after maybe another three years for years to come. So the comparison isn't fair maybe, but If you lose nobody's asking if it was fair or not. Sad but true. That's why I'm looking if the wolves can close this existing talent gap. The premise was great, but If you ask me, I think Portland got the better draft overall with worse picks. That's what's keeping me wondering if it has been the right to choice to trade mayo. But like always only time will tell.

[SSUBluesman]

LOL at Foye's defensive impact. Are you ****ing serious? When he first came back he was HORRIBLE and leveled off to okay when his knee wasn't bothering him as much. The only player that came close to having a "crazy defensive impact" was McCants, that being him driving fans crazy watching him stand around and let his man go by him (when he wasn't picking up lazy fouls).

Miller's mpg and role>Jaric's mpg and role. Jaric is a useful roleplayer (when not sucking) who would be in a support role. Miller will get more minutes, more shots, and take a larger role that should go to players like Foye, McCants, etc. to see if they can handle it or not. Do you people really think it's a good idea to rebuild by acquiring players like Miller who (at their best) add a few wins while falling short of the playoffs and hurting draft position (and possibly player development)? Do people not see the difference between drafting Brewer, Wright, Gordon, vs. Oden, Durant, Rose?

Right, except that "they didn't know what they were doing" is based on them not knowing what they wanted to do, hence the continual off/on again trade discussions and them telling Mayo he was staying, Hoiberg telling the fans he was staying, etc. This is completely obvious, which is why it's ignored, or in your case, an unrelated counterargument is used.

Jefferson doesn't need an undersized stiff sitting on the perimeter in order to get 20 and establish himself as a force in the post. He needs someone who can protect the rim and/or lock down the paint as a post defender. Anyone who thinks Love will do that is absolutely delusional on a level that's beyond the whole Foye=Roy crap you guys trotted out for the past few years. I guess maybe that's everyone's plan, if Mayo turns out to be better than Love everyone will just make excuses and pretend it isn't true.

For those going on with this bandwagon bull****: STFU. This is one of the most painful franchises to support in the past 15+ years. If we weren't sucking we were getting bounced in the first round year after year and having the heart and soul of the franchise getting repeatedly called out. The idea that somehow there are ANY bandwagon fans for this team that stuck around AFTER KG, AFTER the horrible season, AFTER McFail stays is so mind-numbingly stupid and insulting it defies words.

[Carpe Diem]

It is very easy to argue for the superiority of the abstract, then it is to defend the empirics of the real because there is no way to verify the abstract notion while we will very easily see the reality, in this case, our current version of the TWolves. In other words, the grass is always greener, until it is our yard and start to see that it isn't greener, shinier, or wart free. Even if Mayo becomes a star, there is no way to verify that he would have become a star in Minnesota (because X becomes good in situation Y, it does not necessarily follows that X would have been good in Z situation), would have stayed in Minnesota beyond his rookie deal, and many wonder whether he would have pulled a "Marbury." Of course those who favor the Mayo trade will blast if Love becomes a star and vice versa, but they are only committing hindsight bias. The only way to evaluate a move is to determine its legitimacy at the time. Those who are convinced that Mayo is a superstar hate it, those who see Mayo as just another highly rated prospect see the trade as a clear win for Minnesota.

For others, being a TWolf fan is like this F. Scott Fitzgerald line: So we beat on, boats against a current, borne ceaselessly into the past.

[Worm Guts]

Those who are convinced that Mayo is a superstar hate it, those who see Mayo as just another highly rated prospect see the trade as a clear win for Minnesota.

I don't think Mayo is a superstar and I still don't like the deal.

[shrink]

For others, being a TWolf fan is like this F. Scott Fitzgerald line: So we beat on, boats against a current, borne ceaselessly into the past.

For a blatant display of education and culture on this board, I sentence you to one week in RubeChat, to commence immediately.

[deeney0]

We had a Vonnegut quote this week too. What is this board coming too? We might as well give in to rev and discuss everything in Latin.

[captain_cheapseats]

#1: ok: Well I'm about winning and I think that's what the FO is aiming for in the long run. Personally I don't want to be a playoff bound team that usually gets its butt kicked at the latest in the 1st PO round (Remember the KG years?)

Nor should you! But unfortunately a couple years of getting your butt kicked early in the playoffs seems to be a neccessary step in the process of building towards a title (with a couple exceptions like the Celtics this year, or Lakers after they landed Shaq). The key is just not to get stuck there long term.

#2: Yeah the Portland comparison might be not too fair. And yes Portland is rebuilding for, well maybe 4 or 5 seasons. But I think Portland's the franchise to beat after maybe another three years for years to come. So the comparison isn't fair maybe, but If you lose nobody's asking if it was fair or not. Sad but true. That's why I'm looking if the wolves can close this existing talent gap. The premise was great, but If you ask me, I think Portland got the better draft overall with worse picks. That's what's keeping me wondering if it has been the right to choice to trade mayo. But like always only time will tell.

I agree, but you can't worry too much about specific teams long term. You never know what'll happen with Portland; injuries and free agency could decimate that team by the time your young guys are developed/ready to make a run. Or perhaps they could be even better, who knows? At the end of the day, you just can't stress over it.