Kevin Garnett vs Walt Frazier? Which player would take?

[ThaRegul8r]

I also remember you saying that you would pick Frazier to start a franchise, behind Wilt. That mean you would pass up MJ, Kareem, Magic, and Bird for Frazier.

You do realize that in the "who would you pick to start a franchise" question, that the answer depends on the vision each individual has for his franchise? Two people aren't going to build their franchises the same way or have the same philosophy, so their answers are going to be different.

so you're basically saying that you would choose an inferior player over a better player if you liked him.

Tell me where anywhere I said anything about "liking a player" better. I said that what player you select depends on the team you're trying to build. One player might be a better fit than another based on the team you're trying to build. It's not that difficult to understand. Sheesh. I hate when people don't read what you say and set up straw men.

[kooldude]

Tell me where anywhere I said anything about "liking a player" better. I said that what player you select depends on the team you're trying to build. One player might be a better fit than another based on the team you're trying to build. It's not that difficult to understand. Sheesh. I hate when people don't read what you say and set up straw men.

that what I meant: liking a player based on the team you're building, even though that player may be inferior to another. I hate when people get defensive and make something out of nothing.

[ronnymac2]

Wow, jordansbulls has been making tough comparisons lately. lol This, and now the hondo vs. payton on d one.

Who would I take between Frazier and KG? Where they are in relation to other players at their position means nothing to me. Mainly because in this case, they are both top 3 at their positions all time for me.

Frazier. Dominant defender. He could guard 1's, 2's, and probaly some 3's effectively. His height, length, savvy, and quick hands enabled him to guard the post. His defensive strength of course was on the perimeter, though. Again, using possibly the quickest hands ever, was able to disrupt a player's dribble, play passing lanes, tip passes, and get steals. He was extremely intelligent in that he'd set you up to think you could do something, like say dribble left, and then bam, he'd steal it. He was a very good rebounder for the position. I don't trust his years of averaging 5 and 6 rebounds per game to justify me saying he was a very good rebounding pg because of pace and all (if you want to use that, ok lol). It's just every time I watch him, he seems to have a nose for the ball, kind of like chris paul or jason kidd or GP. He was like GP in that he always knew where his man was in relation to the ball and the basket. Frazier would rarely get outsmarted or beaten by a backcut.

On offense, he could direct a break very well. Always hit the open man. He also orchestrated an offense very well. And he knew who to get the ball to. If Earl Monroe was hot, he'd continue letting Monroe make plays and facilitate. The comparisons I liken it to are isiah thomas knowing when joe dumars was hot and vice versa, or, to use a modern example, chauncey billups and rip hamilton. He could finish very well, could shoot jumpers, create his own shot, or make plays for other guys. Good post-entry passer. Played off others well. And allowed other guys on those great passing knick teams to facilitate, thus his lower than expected assist averages. And of course, coool and clutch as hell.

Now Kg. A truly dominant defensive player. One of the best defensive rebounders ever. Kg is one of only a few 7 footers to ever be able to guard in the full court. Great fast break defender, always gets back to block shots or contest. In his prime, he was a 2 blks and 1 stl. guy, as a power foward who had to play great team and man d and lead the league in rebounds. So he was obviously very versatile. In the half court is where his true value comes in though. He is a very good post defender. He battles for position very well, contests jumpers, defends mid post drives, and gets blocks and steals. He plays great position team defense, especially with his team in boston. They were competent enough to funnel guys his way (a la the spurs with duncan), and he could use length to stop drives and bother shots and passes. He really restricts passing in the paint all the way to the foul line extended area because he can cover so much ground and air very quickly. And he can guard the perimeter. He's the best since Dream at chasing guards on the perimeter or trapping them on the pick and roll, then defending them. He's great at recovering back to defend the paint. He leads defenses and his focal with his teammates, too. He was the anchor of one of the best defenses ever.

On offense, Kg runs the floor very well for a big. He is a very good outlet passer, too, and sometimes even leads the fast break because of his handles and passing ability. He's a dominant finisher. He's an aggressive offensive rebounder anduses his length and athleticability to get tip-ins. He's one of the best passing big men ever, as well as one of the best jump-shooting big men ever. he's great on the pick-and-roll because of his ability to hit the 20 footer and the ability to finish. He can drive on bigger players. He's a good post-up scorer, with good post moves. He draws doubles and opens things up for perimeter players. He can facilitate an offense from anywhere in the halfcourt.

I'm taking KG. I never believed all the bull **** about KG not being a winner. I was really happy for KG when he won that title. He shut all those dumbasses up. The 2 times he's had a team, he's taken them very, very far. He plays hard every game. He's always there for his team. He's a true, true leader. I read recently that after a practice earlier this season, he did his usual after-practice shooting drills. You know, extra work. But then after that, he rebounded for Rajon Rondo while rondo shot extra jumpers. What established veteran superstar would do that? After having to average 20-10-5 for years, he finally was able to play the way he wanted to. This was the real KG. He was finally put into an ideal situation, and what happens? He leads a team to 66 wins, wins a title, wins dpoy. It's not very hard to construct a team around KG (so imo, kevin Mchale sucks as a gm, and badly lol).

I love Walt Frazier. This isn't an easy decision by any means. 36 and 19 in a game 7 is very hard to ignore just by itself. But I'll take KG for my team.

[JordansBulls]

Wow, jordansbulls has been making tough comparisons lately. lol This, and now the hondo vs. payton on d one.

Who would I take between Frazier and KG? Where they are in relation to other players at their position means nothing to me. Mainly because in this case, they are both top 3 at their positions all time for me.

Frazier. Dominant defender. He could guard 1's, 2's, and probaly some 3's effectively. His height, length, savvy, and quick hands enabled him to guard the post. His defensive strength of course was on the perimeter, though. Again, using possibly the quickest hands ever, was able to disrupt a player's dribble, play passing lanes, tip passes, and get steals. He was extremely intelligent in that he'd set you up to think you could do something, like say dribble left, and then bam, he'd steal it. He was a very good rebounder for the position. I don't trust his years of averaging 5 and 6 rebounds per game to justify me saying he was a very good rebounding pg because of pace and all (if you want to use that, ok lol). It's just every time I watch him, he seems to have a nose for the ball, kind of like chris paul or jason kidd or GP. He was like GP in that he always knew where his man was in relation to the ball and the basket. Frazier would rarely get outsmarted or beaten by a backcut.

On offense, he could direct a break very well. Always hit the open man. He also orchestrated an offense very well. And he knew who to get the ball to. If Earl Monroe was hot, he'd continue letting Monroe make plays and facilitate. The comparisons I liken it to are isiah thomas knowing when joe dumars was hot and vice versa, or, to use a modern example, chauncey billups and rip hamilton. He could finish very well, could shoot jumpers, create his own shot, or make plays for other guys. Good post-entry passer. Played off others well. And allowed other guys on those great passing knick teams to facilitate, thus his lower than expected assist averages. And of course, coool and clutch as hell.

Now Kg. A truly dominant defensive player. One of the best defensive rebounders ever. Kg is one of only a few 7 footers to ever be able to guard in the full court. Great fast break defender, always gets back to block shots or contest. In his prime, he was a 2 blks and 1 stl. guy, as a power foward who had to play great team and man d and lead the league in rebounds. So he was obviously very versatile. In the half court is where his true value comes in though. He is a very good post defender. He battles for position very well, contests jumpers, defends mid post drives, and gets blocks and steals. He plays great position team defense, especially with his team in boston. They were competent enough to funnel guys his way (a la the spurs with duncan), and he could use length to stop drives and bother shots and passes. He really restricts passing in the paint all the way to the foul line extended area because he can cover so much ground and air very quickly. And he can guard the perimeter. He's the best since Dream at chasing guards on the perimeter or trapping them on the pick and roll, then defending them. He's great at recovering back to defend the paint. He leads defenses and his focal with his teammates, too. He was the anchor of one of the best defenses ever.

On offense, Kg runs the floor very well for a big. He is a very good outlet passer, too, and sometimes even leads the fast break because of his handles and passing ability. He's a dominant finisher. He's an aggressive offensive rebounder anduses his length and athleticability to get tip-ins. He's one of the best passing big men ever, as well as one of the best jump-shooting big men ever. he's great on the pick-and-roll because of his ability to hit the 20 footer and the ability to finish. He can drive on bigger players. He's a good post-up scorer, with good post moves. He draws doubles and opens things up for perimeter players. He can facilitate an offense from anywhere in the halfcourt.

I'm taking KG. I never believed all the bull **** about KG not being a winner. I was really happy for KG when he won that title. He shut all those dumbasses up. The 2 times he's had a team, he's taken them very, very far. He plays hard every game. He's always there for his team. He's a true, true leader. I read recently that after a practice earlier this season, he did his usual after-practice shooting drills. You know, extra work. But then after that, he rebounded for Rajon Rondo while rondo shot extra jumpers. What established veteran superstar would do that? After having to average 20-10-5 for years, he finally was able to play the way he wanted to. This was the real KG. He was finally put into an ideal situation, and what happens? He leads a team to 66 wins, wins a title, wins dpoy. It's not very hard to construct a team around KG (so imo, kevin Mchale sucks as a gm, and badly lol).

I love Walt Frazier. This isn't an easy decision by any means. 36 and 19 in a game 7 is very hard to ignore just by itself. But I'll take KG for my team.

Nice post. Frazier was a stud in his own right, but KG showed he can win as well now.

[BigHands]

I am a Celtic fan and it was KG that changed the culture in Boston.

But I voted for Clyde. The man had a Bird-Magic Johnson like quality of channeling his greatness into the team.

IMO he is the best defensive PG ever and is the PG on my all time starting 5.