American Nationalistic Basketball Pride Makes me sick!

[Cochulito]

Seriously. Players dont want to represent countries. Then there are other countries that will allow players to play on their teams because they have "roots" to their countries. It is a fricken shame.

[studcrackers]

who gives a ****, patriotism's overrated and slightly annoying

[Serpo]

Country doesn't want player --> Player looking for alternatives --> Player found alternative country --->
Player and new Country happy about that ---> Country that didn't want player in the first place now ends up beeing a sore loser .

What exactly do you expect ? It's not like this is war or something . It's a frickin game . You look for your opportunity and then take it when it comes around. Do you expect these players to just sit on their couch waive the Amercan Flag and wait for their a call that most likely will never come ? Yeah right.
It's not like they're trying to sabotage America of something. The time of cold war is long gone . It's a time of globalism even if you may not like it. People will just turn their back to your country if they get ignored. And rightly so.

[studcrackers]

here's to hoping dirk and kaman can qualify for the olympics

[El Turco]

you would be suicidal if you lived in balkans

[Kyrama]

Seriously. Players dont want to represent countries. Then there are other countries that will allow players to play on their teams because they have "roots" to their countries. It is a fricken shame.

They only lived there for 20 years and have relatives there. How outrageous!

[Speedlot]

Easy for you to say when you're not an Athlete

[Joseph17]

Who cares? It's not like Chris Kaman decided to play for the German National Team instead of the USA National Team. The USA didn't want him.

[RockTHECasbah]

Patriotism also leads to war and veiled racism

[candy for lunch]

THIS IS ARE COUNTRY

[writerman]

Any American who would take an active part in wanting to see another nation's flag flown above our own to satisfy a personal ambition may have the right to do so--but they certainly don't deserve that right. It's sad that lots of good people fought and died from Valley Forge to Gettysburg to Guadalcanal to Basra so that these shirkers who selfishly take from America but give nothing back but the minimum mandatory taxes could make this nauseating choice.

If the average level of patriotism demonstrated by American posters in this thread is representative of the country as a whole, we are in serious trouble. When the people consistently care more about their personal agendas than the welfare of the society and nation as a whole, when they forget the greater good, history shows that that nation is inexorably headed for the graveyard of nations.

[Phobo_Phile]

^I would argue the reason people may feel as such is that they feel the government has now forced a false "greater good" that completly abandons the individual.

[Basti]

Any American who would take an active part in wanting to see another nation's flag flown above our own to satisfy a personal ambition may have the right to do so--but they certainly don't deserve that right. It's sad that lots of good people fought and died from Valley Forge to Gettysburg to Guadalcanal to Basra so that these shirkers who selfishly take from America but give nothing back but the minimum mandatory taxes could make this nauseating choice.

If the average level of patriotism demonstrated by American posters in this thread is representative of the country as a whole, we are in serious trouble. When the people consistently care more about their personal agendas than the welfare of the society and nation as a whole, when they forget the greater good, history shows that that nation is inexorably headed for the graveyard of nations.

do you really want to say that paying millions for taxes is worse than playing for another country because the original team didn't want him? seriously, this must be a joke. sorry but what does the american society gain if Kaman or any other player that would do the same is sitting on his couch watching the national team playing? they pay millions of dollars in taxes so they technically contribute more to the society than a nurse from baltimore and patriotism doesn't make up for that gap IMO.

then again, as a german I have an akward sense for patriotism for historic reasons but this shouldn't take anything away from my point. I seriously think that your reference to the civil war etc. when we're talking about a game is way off. and who says that Kaman or any other player doing the same is not contributing to the society in other ways? and no I don't have to be a patriot to contribute to society. I don't care where the persons I might help are coming from, I only care about the fact that they are humans.

btw: I don't want to make it look like it were an insult. I just think your image of patriotism and the consequences of it are a little bit off.

[Shaazzam]

I thought freedom of choice, a desire to excel, a willingness to compete and allowing a free market were basic tenets of your country?

You could take pride in the fact that your athletes are being asked and even paid to play for other countries, or you could rail against their willingness to exercise their freedoms.

By exposing other countries to your talent, isn't that the greatest compliment possible and a worthy monument to your people who fell for their ideals? By having a hand in their possible success, does that not further the glory of the good ol' U.S of A?

[Rocky5000]

THIS IS ARE COUNTRY

I hope that was on purpose...

[writerman]

Any American who would take an active part in wanting to see another nation's flag flown above our own to satisfy a personal ambition may have the right to do so--but they certainly don't deserve that right. It's sad that lots of good people fought and died from Valley Forge to Gettysburg to Guadalcanal to Basra so that these shirkers who selfishly take from America but give nothing back but the minimum mandatory taxes could make this nauseating choice.

If the average level of patriotism demonstrated by American posters in this thread is representative of the country as a whole, we are in serious trouble. When the people consistently care more about their personal agendas than the welfare of the society and nation as a whole, when they forget the greater good, history shows that that nation is inexorably headed for the graveyard of nations.

do you really want to say that paying millions for taxes is worse than playing for another country because the original team didn't want him? seriously, this must be a joke. sorry but what does the american society gain if Kaman or any other player that would do the same is sitting on his couch watching the national team playing? they pay millions of dollars in taxes so they technically contribute more to the society than a nurse from baltimore and patriotism doesn't make up for that gap IMO.

then again, as a german I have an akward sense for patriotism for historic reasons but this shouldn't take anything away from my point. I seriously think that your reference to the civil war etc. when we're talking about a game is way off. and who says that Kaman or any other player doing the same is not contributing to the society in other ways? and no I don't have to be a patriot to contribute to society. I don't care where the persons I might help are coming from, I only care about the fact that they are humans.

btw: I don't want to make it look like it were an insult. I just think your image of patriotism and the consequences of it are a little bit off.

When have Germans ever been positive about the U.S.? Never in my memory.

I have a friend who has worked in Germany for a decade commuting on business between Hamburg, Madrid, and Dublin. In the years he has lived there he rarely hears anything good about America. To the contrary, in his experience, being rude and insulting to Americans about America and anything American may be a sport more popular in Germany and on the continent (not Ireland) than the World Cup.

A devout Roman Catholic, he is especially sickened by seeing great cathedrals in Germany and other European countries empty on Sundays and Holidays. and predicts that in a few decades Europe will be a predominantly Moslem region and the cradle of Western Civilization will be lost. He also cites a scary resurgence of antisemitism in general (BTW, I'm not jewish)--apparently WW II didn't put that matter to rest.

And it's not just Germany--when he was with his American girlfriend in Madrid, he was physically attacked by some scumbags precisely and solely because he was an American. They picked the wrong guy to pick on--he broke the nose of one, gave another a concussion while defending himself and his lady. And they police weren't innocent of bias either--they were going to arrest him even though he was the one attacked and outnumbered four to one.

So as an American do I have a high opinion of Germans and Europeans in general? I'm afraid not.

If Kaman wants to play for Germany, then he should renounce his American citizenship and either live there or register here as a resident alien. Same with Becky Hammons. In my book they may be fine athletes and even, generally speaking, good people, but IMO they no longer should claim and enjoy the benefits of American citizenship. They have morally forfeited that right by representing a foreign power in international competition.

Just wondering--would you feel the same if Dirk decided to play on the U.S. team? I doubt it.

[Serpo]

Any American who would take an active part in wanting to see another nation's flag flown above our own to satisfy a personal ambition may have the right to do so--but they certainly don't deserve that right. It's sad that lots of good people fought and died from Valley Forge to Gettysburg to Guadalcanal to Basra so that these shirkers who selfishly take from America but give nothing back but the minimum mandatory taxes could make this nauseating choice.

If the average level of patriotism demonstrated by American posters in this thread is representative of the country as a whole, we are in serious trouble. When the people consistently care more about their personal agendas than the welfare of the society and nation as a whole, when they forget the greater good, history shows that that nation is inexorably headed for the graveyard of nations.

It's not like these guys play for some Nations your in War or something ......

Well i guess growing up and living in Germany really makes me feel akward about all that patroitism crap.

[Anticon]

American nationalism can make me upset when it involves cheering at the assault on Baghdad, but with sports it seems pretty harmless to me. Frankly, if people have to be nationalistic, sports are a pretty nice way of dealing with the competition.

[Serpo]

Just wondering--would you feel the same if Dirk decided to play on the U.S. team? I doubt it.

Well if Germany for some akward reason didn't want him hell yeah , but since we're not stupid ....

[Basti]

Any American who would take an active part in wanting to see another nation's flag flown above our own to satisfy a personal ambition may have the right to do so--but they certainly don't deserve that right. It's sad that lots of good people fought and died from Valley Forge to Gettysburg to Guadalcanal to Basra so that these shirkers who selfishly take from America but give nothing back but the minimum mandatory taxes could make this nauseating choice.

If the average level of patriotism demonstrated by American posters in this thread is representative of the country as a whole, we are in serious trouble. When the people consistently care more about their personal agendas than the welfare of the society and nation as a whole, when they forget the greater good, history shows that that nation is inexorably headed for the graveyard of nations.

do you really want to say that paying millions for taxes is worse than playing for another country because the original team didn't want him? seriously, this must be a joke. sorry but what does the american society gain if Kaman or any other player that would do the same is sitting on his couch watching the national team playing? they pay millions of dollars in taxes so they technically contribute more to the society than a nurse from baltimore and patriotism doesn't make up for that gap IMO.

then again, as a german I have an akward sense for patriotism for historic reasons but this shouldn't take anything away from my point. I seriously think that your reference to the civil war etc. when we're talking about a game is way off. and who says that Kaman or any other player doing the same is not contributing to the society in other ways? and no I don't have to be a patriot to contribute to society. I don't care where the persons I might help are coming from, I only care about the fact that they are humans.

btw: I don't want to make it look like it were an insult. I just think your image of patriotism and the consequences of it are a little bit off.

When have Germans ever been positive about the U.S.? Never in my memory.

I have a friend who has worked in Germany for a decade commuting on business between Hamburg, Madrid, and Dublin. In the years he has lived there he rarely hears anything good about America. A devout Roman Catholic, he is especially sickened by seeing great cathedrals in Germany and other European countries empty on Sundays and Holidays. and predicts that in a few decades Europe will be a predominantly Moslem region and the cradle of Western Civilization will be lost. He also cites a scary resurgence of antisemitism in generl (BTW, I'm not jewish)--apparently WW II didn't put that matter to rest.

And it's not just Germany--when he was with his American girlfriend in Madrid, he was physically attacked by some scumbags precisely and solely because he was an American. They picked the wrong guy to pick on--he broke the nose of one, gave another a concussion while defending himself and his lady. And they police weren't innocent of bias either--they were going to arrest him even though he was the one attacked and outnumbered four to one.

So as an American do I have a high opinion of Germans and Europeans in general? I'm afraid not.

If Kaman wants to play for Germany, then he should renounce his American citizenship and either live there or register here as a resident alien. Same with Becky Hammons. In my book they may be fine athletes and even, generally speaking, good people, but IMO they no longer should claim and enjoy the benefits of American citizenship. They have morally forfeited that right by representing a foreign power in international competition.

Just wondering--would you feel the same if Dirk decided to play on the U.S. team? I doubt it.

as if I had mentioned in any way how I consider America... I just said that I think some people overrate patriotism. I didn't say I dislike America. if I'd did it I wouldn't have the guts to post here and watch an american national sport. I'm realistic enough to admit that here in europe there is indeed a rising disdain against America but it is rather a disdain against the America of George W. Bush. plus the majority of those people are flat out uninformed. they read what those tabloid papers write and adapt it. I can assure you that there are way too many people out there that actually like America and those who are informed and still dislike it have a certain and possibly a legit reason to do so.

well I'm not sure how I'd react if Dirk decided to play for the U.S. team because our national team is a whole nother story than your NT. you have tons of talent while our NT basically consists of Dirk plus one or two players that you might consider as roleplayers on a higher european level. that's it. I'm quite sure Kaman would have wanted to play for the USA but as he didn't receive any calls to join I can also see why he chosed to play for the German NT. the main reason why he came here is probably because he wanted to experience international basketball, olympics and/or just a new experience. you gotta remember Kaman is very very intelligent (not sure if the term genius is appropriate) and until a few months ago he was said to be mentally sick (sorry I can't descrive it any better). this also affects him. I don't think it is far off to say that he actually got bored by being at home in summer seeing the other play while he is among them talentwise.

oh and I forgot to say that I actually see your point though I don't agree with it because IMO you're exaggerating it but that's just me I guess. and again, I never said anything about my views towards America. dunno how you came up with that.