Trading Rafer/Head (I know-old issue...)

[mxdude34]

Let's start with Rafer. Don't forget that this guy is a bad basketball player and let's face it, the 07-08 Rafer is as good as it gets. He is a decent asset now because his stock is high and I think the Rockets should capitalize on it as well as they can. Some team will be lured into thinking his trade value is higher than it is because of his good past season.

Head on the other hand is a decent regular season player who chokes in the playoffs. Shooters like Head are always in demand and quite frankly I'm sick of seeing him underperform and go ice cold when it counts.

Trading these two can also help the Rockets address the problem of an undersized backcourt. Rafer and Head cannot defend the bigger point guards of the West that it will take to advance deep like D. Williams, B. Davis, and soon enough B. Roy.

The only thing is, I can't think of many PGs available that have that kind of size! It would take much more to get Billups. Any suggestions?

[2fast4u]

none.

[jove9]

We don't need an A list PG to advance in the playoffs, or even to win a title. Sounds preposterous, doesn't it?

Consider the following:

The last three championship teams were run by Rajon Rondo, Tony Parker, and Jason Williams.

The Spurs won their first title in 1999 starting Avery Johnson.

The Lakers won three titles starting Derek Fisher.

The Bulls won six championships in the 90s starting Ron Harper.

The Rockets won two championships in the 90s starting Kenny Smith.

Tony Parker may be the only player I just mentioned that teams pay attention to defensively. The other players got their points by feeding off of their team's stars.

We haven't been able to get out of the first round because of injuries to our stars and key players, and because our role players have disappeared in stretches. That is fixed by upgrading the bench, not by trading away the only decent PG you have.

Finally, Rafer didn't lose the Utah series for us, but his absence contributed to the loss. He's a solid playmaker and the only PG on our team who is able to initiate the offense quickly enough to get a play run. At one point last year Adelman called him a "perfect fit." He plays solid defense, and hits enough threes to keep the opposing teams honest.

We're not going to get anyone better by trading Rafer. Deal with it.

[YaoZai]

wow jove9... totally agree with u.

As for Head, i'm fine trading him.

[moofs]

We don't need an A list PG to advance in the playoffs, or even to win a title. Sounds preposterous, doesn't it?

Consider the following:

The last three championship teams were run by Rajon Rondo, Tony Parker, and Jason Williams.

The Spurs won their first title in 1999 starting Avery Johnson.

The Lakers won three titles starting Derek Fisher.

The Bulls won six championships in the 90s starting Ron Harper.

The Rockets won two championships in the 90s starting Kenny Smith.

Tony Parker may be the only player I just mentioned that teams pay attention to defensively. The other players got their points by feeding off of their team's stars.

We haven't been able to get out of the first round because of injuries to our stars and key players, and because our role players have disappeared in stretches. That is fixed by upgrading the bench, not by trading away the only decent PG you have.

Finally, Rafer didn't lose the Utah series for us, but his absence contributed to the loss. He's a solid playmaker and the only PG on our team who is able to initiate the offense quickly enough to get a play run. At one point last year Adelman called him a "perfect fit." He plays solid defense, and hits enough threes to keep the opposing teams honest.

We're not going to get anyone better by trading Rafer. Deal with it.

How have neither of us thought to mention that before now?

[King Roosk]

Jove pretty much nailed it. Theonly seemingly available PG would be Kirk Hinrich, but even now rumors are surfacing that Chicago wants to keep him. Even if we did go after Hinrich, unless Brooks really is ready to contribute, I'd wish there was a way to keep Alston as our back up.

I'm beginning to believe that Maggette for the MLE should be our target right now.

To add on to what you're stats Jove, both finals teams this year boasted weak-link PGs in Rondo and Fisher.

[RaoulDuke79]

Also, tits.

[Guy986]

What happened to the rabbit?

[RaoulDuke79]

What happened to the rabbit?

He let me down too many times so I had him executed. Bashed over the head with a massive Twinkie to be precise. You can't trust a rabbit, just look at Bugs. He was a deceitful, lying bastard(and a crossdresser at that!).

[Amel]

I gave up trading Alston last year

but Head, he will be worthless for the rest of his life

[ShaY]

Jove pretty much nailed it. Theonly seemingly available PG would be Kirk Hinrich, but even now rumors are surfacing that Chicago wants to keep him. Even if we did go after Hinrich, unless Brooks really is ready to contribute, I'd wish there was a way to keep Alston as our back up.

I'm beginning to believe that Maggette for the MLE should be our target right now.

To add on to what you're stats Jove, both finals teams this year boasted weak-link PGs in Rondo and Fisher.

You know what Roosk , I will be happy if we are able to sign Barry and re-sign Landry and go into the season with that roster.
I believe that if healthy we can be on pace for a top 3 seed until we make a move.

Morey said we need a 3rd signficant player to compete , and he knows Barry is not that player.

IMO if we can't find a steal through a trade then Morey will settle for a troubled guy like a Stephen Jackson for example and take that risk , and guys like Jackson I truly believe we can surely get with assets we got now.

Morey always said don't judge the roster you see on opening day , judge the roster after the deadline.

EDIT: and Jove you are 100% correct.
People say we need an upgrade but the fact is that there is no upgrade available.
The only 2 I can think of are Mo Williams and Hinrich , Hinrich can be good but it will take too much to get him , we will plug a hole at pg just to create another hole somwhere else.
Mo Williams is an upgrade but no way he is worth that contract.

[Dinky Bits]

To win a championship, we're going to need an upgrade at our starting PG or SF spot. You're allowed to have some holes in your starting lineup, but if these guys are going to be playing the minutes that they play, and take the amount of shots that they (Alston actually) take, then you need more production. Scola starting did wonders for us, so if we can get one more guy in there, then that will make Rafer/Shane's shortcomings less glaring.

[HTown_TMac]

The thing is Alston actually does play defense.. Head on the other hand...

[King Roosk]

Jove pretty much nailed it. Theonly seemingly available PG would be Kirk Hinrich, but even now rumors are surfacing that Chicago wants to keep him. Even if we did go after Hinrich, unless Brooks really is ready to contribute, I'd wish there was a way to keep Alston as our back up.

I'm beginning to believe that Maggette for the MLE should be our target right now.

To add on to what you're stats Jove, both finals teams this year boasted weak-link PGs in Rondo and Fisher.

You know what Roosk , I will be happy if we are able to sign Barry and re-sign Landry and go into the season with that roster.
I believe that if healthy we can be on pace for a top 3 seed until we make a move.

Morey said we need a 3rd signficant player to compete , and he knows Barry is not that player.

IMO if we can't find a steal through a trade then Morey will settle for a troubled guy like a Stephen Jackson for example and take that risk , and guys like Jackson I truly believe we can surely get with assets we got now.

Morey always said don't judge the roster you see on opening day , judge the roster after the deadline.

EDIT: and Jove you are 100% correct.
People say we need an upgrade but the fact is that there is no upgrade available.
The only 2 I can think of are Mo Williams and Hinrich , Hinrich can be good but it will take too much to get him , we will plug a hole at pg just to create another hole somwhere else.
Mo Williams is an upgrade but no way he is worth that contract.

You know, if we can re-sign Landry for relatively cheap, and bring (a healthy) Brent Barry to this team, then I agree with you Shabi (you're still Shabi to me, none of that shaY nonsense). If our team stays healthy, which is always a big if, then I think we'll have enough to get us through the all-star break.

Yao/Dorsey/Deke
Scola/Landry/Hayes
Battier/Greene/Novak
Mcgrady/Barry/Head
Alston/BJax/Brooks

Morey is a very patient man. My guess is that we'll see how ready the rookies are to contribute, evaluate the team, and make trades when the deadline approaches. Everyone on this board, including myself, has been barking for a 3rd scoring option, but imagine if we had the roster I posted above. I'm expecting Scola to emerge as a legitimate go-to guy, and I see Donte Green being Josh Howard-esque for us. We may be a lot more talented on the offensive end then we all think, and I think Morey knows this. We'll see how things play out though.

[moofs]

Yes. I'm pretty sure we're ok-or-better as is, and really good if the right deal rears its head.

Then again, I don't buy into the modern national fetishes for winning immediately at all costs and/or living forever. Improvement is winning as far as I'm concerned, and we should already have improved.

Whatever happened to Americans loving the losers? We still root for the underdogs, but curse the guys that don't win.

[ShaY]

Jove pretty much nailed it. Theonly seemingly available PG would be Kirk Hinrich, but even now rumors are surfacing that Chicago wants to keep him. Even if we did go after Hinrich, unless Brooks really is ready to contribute, I'd wish there was a way to keep Alston as our back up.

I'm beginning to believe that Maggette for the MLE should be our target right now.

To add on to what you're stats Jove, both finals teams this year boasted weak-link PGs in Rondo and Fisher.

You know what Roosk , I will be happy if we are able to sign Barry and re-sign Landry and go into the season with that roster.
I believe that if healthy we can be on pace for a top 3 seed until we make a move.

Morey said we need a 3rd signficant player to compete , and he knows Barry is not that player.

IMO if we can't find a steal through a trade then Morey will settle for a troubled guy like a Stephen Jackson for example and take that risk , and guys like Jackson I truly believe we can surely get with assets we got now.

Morey always said don't judge the roster you see on opening day , judge the roster after the deadline.

EDIT: and Jove you are 100% correct.
People say we need an upgrade but the fact is that there is no upgrade available.
The only 2 I can think of are Mo Williams and Hinrich , Hinrich can be good but it will take too much to get him , we will plug a hole at pg just to create another hole somwhere else.
Mo Williams is an upgrade but no way he is worth that contract.

You know, if we can re-sign Landry for relatively cheap, and bring (a healthy) Brent Barry to this team, then I agree with you Shabi (you're still Shabi to me, none of that shaY nonsense). If our team stays healthy, which is always a big if, then I think we'll have enough to get us through the all-star break.

Yao/Dorsey/Deke
Scola/Landry/Hayes
Battier/Greene/Novak
Mcgrady/Barry/Head
Alston/BJax/Brooks

Morey is a very patient man. My guess is that we'll see how ready the rookies are to contribute, evaluate the team, and make trades when the deadline approaches. Everyone on this board, including myself, has been barking for a 3rd scoring option, but imagine if we had the roster I posted above. I'm expecting Scola to emerge as a legitimate go-to guy, and I see Donte Green being Josh Howard-esque for us. We may be a lot more talented on the offensive end then we all think, and I think Morey knows this. We'll see how things play out though.

I agree , even without Barry we can compete for a top 3 seed at the all start break with the same roster as last season if healthy.
In the regular season we are very good , if healthy I believe we can even be top 2 in the West , but we still gonna need to add a 3rd significant player before the deadline.
Morey knows that and when the season begins we will have a lot more options.

I know a off season of just adding Barry is boring but it might be the best thing for us and it will pay off hopefully near the deadline.

[MaxRider]

What happened to the rabbit?

He let me down too many times so I had him executed. Bashed over the head with a massive Twinkie to be precise. You can't trust a rabbit, just look at Bugs. He was a deceitful, lying bastard(and a crossdresser at that!).

look at my avatar
panda is the killer

[RaoulDuke79]

You're my new best friend and hero sir. I'm not sure who the previous owner of such titles was but nevertheless you are now in the privileged position of being both. Congratulations!

[tha_rock220]

I don't know how any team would take a package of Head and Alston. We need to upgrade our our shooting though. That being said, I'm opposed to any trading of Alston for another pg that doesn't bring us Kirk Hinrich. Simply put there is nobody on the team who is better than him at moving the ball. TMac might be better at setting up his teammates, but that's largely because of his offensive ability.

After the draft I figured BJax and Hayes were going to be traded, and that would work salary wise with Chicago. I don't know what their contracts are like(except Bobby's is expiring), but I do know Chicago is looking at a bucketload of cap room after this season if they pulled the trigger on that trade and pulled off a sign and trade for Gordon that brought them another expiring.

[tisbee]

This should prob go in build a team but wtf.
Morey is on record as saying he wants to make a trade for a third scorer later in yr. The question is who does he have in mind that makes @8-10mil and would accept coming off the bench. I think he has his sights set on Mike Miller and in Feb Minn will be ready to trade him. If the Rockets want to get Miller-or any other "third scorer" they can't trade away beforehand Jackson. So...
Assuming Hinrich would be an improvement over Alston-of which I'm not convinced,there still is a decent deal to be made.

Alston,Francis,Hayes,cash to pay Francis' salary and a second rd pick or two. Then in Feb Rockets trade Jackson,Head(maybe Novak)and the 09 First to Minn for Miller(maybe Booth).
Chicago clears salary down the road. Gets a vet PG to run show while Rose learns. Yr after Rafer is Playoff PG w/a reasonable expiring contract for trade bait-or even at end of this yr. Hayes adds some toughness to their soft front line and makes it easier to move Gooden. Alston and Hinrich had remarkably similar numbers last yr,so it's not that hard a sell to fans-get same production at 1/2 the price.
Rockets end up going into Playoffs:
Yao,(Booth),Motumbo...Dorsey
Scola,Dorsey,Landry/FA,(Novak)...Battier
Battier,Miller,Greene...Barry
McGrady,Barry...Miller
Hinrich,Brooks,rookie/cheap FA...Barry