Elton is 1000 x's Worse Than Boozer

[cinnamon]

I'm not going to compare Elton Brand to Carlos Boozer.
I'm going to compare him to the Elton Brand who played here for years and whose word was good, absolutely, and who was known by all, and by his own actions, to be an honorable and admirable person, a man of great good character. We really did admire the guy, and said so often on this board.
Whoever this new guy is, going by the same name, he is obviously not the same person.
Or at least, the old Elton Brand has turned a highly unfortunate corner and has become someone whose word means nothing, whose actions cannot be trusted or admired, whose character is not what we thought it was. He is someone who is blithely able to betray the men he played with, the star player who left his own team to come to LA and play with Elton, the masses of fans who had believed in him, and the organization willing to restructure the team the way he wanted it in order to keep him playing here.
No one could do this without being changed by it. You don't hurt, deceive and double-cross so many people without being affected by it yourself. For the rest of his life, Elton Brand will carry this around as a part of his being and as an important point in his life story.
I apologize to all the other people on this board for spending the last week posting messages believing so thoroughly in the loyalty and trustworthiness of Elton Brand, his character and his word.
I was completely wrong. I was wrong about Elton Brand, and I was wrong about what was happening.
You just keep learning, and Elton Brand has just taught me a lesson.

[rjgraca]

yeah, boozer didn't have an option, the team did. they could have kept him for other yr at his low salary if they wanted to.

Boozer asked them to not exercise the option, saying that he would be grateful & return the favor by signing a contract with the team. When the Cavs did him the favor, Boozer immediately signed with the Jazz. Cleve were unable to match due to lack of cap room. (That has been changed with new CBA. It's called the Gilbert Arenas Rule , but it could have just as easily been named after Boozer.)

What he said.

Trying to make Boozer seem like a victim is really far fetched. Like Boozer, Brand said all the right things -- but had his own agenda. I feel for you guys being a CAVs fan, because you just got Boozered too. Boozer's next victim will be Utah since his home is in Miami.

[madmaxmedia]

The situations are completely different.

The Cavs came to an agreement with Boozer that if they Cavs didn't tender him an offer, they would work out a later deal. Whether they would try to land Boozer 'on the cheap' or not is not really part of the equation, I don't believe an actual dollar value was discussed for the subsequent extension.

As far as Brand goes, there was no reneging of any agreement, verbal or wink-wink or otherwise. None of us know what went on in the negotiations right after Brand opted out. It was reported that the Clippers tried to initially lowball Brand, but maybe that's not what happened.

At the end of the day, he was a UFA. There's nothing wrong legally or morally IMO with him leaving. He said he opted out with the intention of staying, but that's not the same as agreeing to some sort of deal (like the verbal agreement Baron made with the Clippers.)

[dc]

Jazz fan here.

So the Clips did by releasing Maggette and signing BD and offered a large but not biggest possible contract to him.

It was Maggette who exercised his own player option to opt out.

[Profound23]

Brand opted out and was free to sign where he wanted to go. If he chose to go to Boston for the minimum he could do it. I don't get all the hate for him.

The only reason you have to hate him is if you believe he made a deal with the Clippers and Baron under the table then went back on the deal. If that is what you believe then you can not hate Brand for your organization is just as dirty as he is. It is like going into business with a conman in order to con people, and in the end you are the one who gets conned. How can you be mad at a Lion for biting you after putting your hand in his mouth?

Now if there was no deal under the table, then what is the problem he opted out and went elsewhere. He took more money to go to a weaker conference with a team that was in the post season last year. Who would not do that?

[TheBluest]

Brand opted out and was free to sign where he wanted to go. If he chose to go to Boston for the minimum he could do it. I don't get all the hate for him.

The only reason you have to hate him is if you believe he made a deal with the Clippers and Baron under the table then went back on the deal. If that is what you believe then you can not hate Brand for your organization is just as dirty as he is. It is like going into business with a conman in order to con people, and in the end you are the one who gets conned. How can you be mad at a Lion for biting you after putting your hand in his mouth?

Now if there was no deal under the table, then what is the problem he opted out and went elsewhere. He took more money to go to a weaker conference with a team that was in the post season last year. Who would not do that?

First of all no one knows the exact details but it's very ironic Baron came to the Clippers without even hitting the market and testing his value. The Clips and EB didn't have do anything illegal under the table. EB could have went to the Clips and said hey can you guys improve the team and they fire back and say yeah if you opt out we can target FA's with more flexibility. Nothing illegal so far at all going with this premise. What if EB calls up his homeboy supposedly Baron and tells him he's opting out did you ever think of this scenario? Once again nothing illegal done going with this premise. Why would Baron publicly state he's confident EB would re-sign with Clips if everyone is in the dark and acting independent of each other? Why did EB publicly state he'd like to see the team make some improvements? Why did he say he wanted to re-sign and remain a Clip?

Look I don't have a problem with him wanting to leave, just be up front about the situation and give possible consideration to the Clippers to get some compensation for doing so. But don't lead them on which I'm sure he did otherwise they wouldn't be so stunned.

[Profound23]

Wow that is a lot of speculation and rationalization there theBluest.

Either way he was a FREE agent, key word FREE. He did not lead anyone on. Since we are speculating here maybe he opted out and planned on staying in LA then Philly came calling and it sounded better and better and they made him an offer he couldn't refuse. Comparing him to Boozer who tricked the team into letting him out of his contract is different.

What has hurt the Clippers chances of retaining Brand has been the organization’s refusal to offer anything but a “take-it-or-leave-it” deal since Golden State made its offer. People close to Brand say that stance “pissed him off,” and made him question his original desire to stay a Clipper.

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports


If that is true, then you have to put the blame on the organization and not a player who had an OPT out and turned FA. I understand Clippers fans won't see it that way. It is easier to blame a player who left than the organization who has let player after player leave for decades now.

[TheBluest]

Wow that is a lot of speculation and rationalization there theBluest.

Either way he was a FREE agent, key word FREE. He did not lead anyone on. Since we are speculating here maybe he opted out and planned on staying in LA then Philly came calling and it sounded better and better and they made him an offer he couldn't refuse. Comparing him to Boozer who tricked the team into letting him out of his contract is different.

What has hurt the Clippers chances of retaining Brand has been the organization’s refusal to offer anything but a “take-it-or-leave-it” deal since Golden State made its offer. People close to Brand say that stance “pissed him off,” and made him question his original desire to stay a Clipper.

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports


If that is true, then you have to put the blame on the organization and not a player who had an OPT out and turned FA. I understand Clippers fans won't see it that way. It is easier to blame a player who left than the organization who has let player after player leave for decades now.

Read my original post Philly was always in play from the start as long as they showed they were interested. He did an interview with New York Radio guys 1 week or 2 before the draft and said they would be a team he'd be interested in joining if it got to that point but said right now I'm a Clipper. This sound bite was played for Ed Stefanski to listen to by Mike Missanelli (I believe) and Ed Stefanski said Brand was of serious interest but wouldn't go into detail due to tampering.


http://www.950espn.com/Audio/tabid/183/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1248/Phildelphia-Sixers-GM-Ed-Stefanski.aspx


Look the Clips attempted extension talks during the season but Brand thought it was best if he waits. He backed out of those talks moreso than the Clips. They wanted to retain him from day one it was never a doubt.

Plus your dumb report was refuted by another report that stated the Clips had a counter offer that was $1mil less in total contract value than Philly. Go ahead and believe what you want to believe but Brand's camp is quiet so is Baron's, and word is he's upset and he Clips are shocked.

Like I said leave, but give the Clips some consideration for compensation. Good grief they didn't even hear from the guy the past few days. In order to get a big time player to pair with him, Brand was going to lose a little but of coin but not a lot. The guy left for money plain and simple letting his agent steer him away from the Clips.

[Profound23]

If you say so...LOL.

Make Brand and his agent the villain. It is easier to do that, I understand.

[pistons]

You can get mad at Brand all you want but this is not exactly the same as Boozer .

Boozer left an up and coming Cavs team to join a down and out Jazz team . He left the chance to play with the best player in the NBA for a higher financial windfall . But he was fully in his rights to do so . He took advantage of a team that was trying to take advantage of him , and more power to him . He was more interested in securing his financial future than he was at winning and nobody can blame him for that . And it actually was a prudent move because him joining the Jazz along with Okur and Williams made them better than the Cavs anyway . . . ( although one could argue that had he been on the Cavs roster for that Finals matchup against the Spurs things may have played out differently and he would ahve a ring by now )

Brand on the other hand I beleive is more interested in winning. That's why he never considered the Warriors who offered by far the best financial package. But he rationalized : Even if you add B Diddy to the Clippers roster , they still are not a top 4 team in the West . . . so u still have to face 3 outta 4 of the Lakers , Spurs , Jazz , and Hornets to make it to the NBA Finals . A tough road for sure . However , Brand joining Philly instantly makes them a candidate for a top 4 team . They are still below Boston and Detroit , but they are right there with Cleveland , Washington , and Orlando. So you basically have a decent but beatable team in the first round , a an underachieving Pistons team and a less hungry Celtics team to get to the Finals . If you are interested in winning , thats a much easier path to travel.

[Profound23]

Exactly Pistons.

I said at the time the Clippers were going to be hurting.

I would take Nash/Amare over Baron/Brand
Or Kidd/Dirk
Or Kobe/Gasol
Or Parker/Duncan
Or Paul/Chandler
Or Deron/Boozer
Or TMAC/YAO


Then you look at Portland with Roy/Oden/Aldridge


And even with Brand/Baron the Clippers are fighting with GS, Denver....for who can take the 8th spot. Clippers should actually be happy. Instead of having a team that is over the cap and possibly in the lotto picking 10th, now they can just tank and go for a #1 or #2 pick and be able to pursue other players.

Brand and Baron are older and injury prone. In the end, the Clippers will see they dodged a bullet.

And Brand should do well in Philly, only because they are in the East.

[TheBluest]

Brand's quest will be equally difficult if not moreso in the East.

You have

Boston
Det
Orlando
Cleveland

then

Washington
Toronto(much improved)
Miami(much Improved)
Sixers(much Improved)
Bucks(much improved)

Not to mention these teams stand a chance to cause trouble

Nets(improved)
Knicks(possible improvement)
Bobcats(possible improvement)
Hawks(unknown)

Then
Pacers(Suck)
Bulls(Suck)

He didn't go to a team who has a better path. I mean the Clips won 30gms last yr without Brand, Livingston, or with the addition Baron.

[barkley34]

I know you guys are probably upset at Brand but for those interested you can listen to his press conference at 5 pm eastern time(about 20 minutes from now) tonight. I think he is going to be there, maybe he will give some insight for his reason for leaving the Clips. You can listen live at http://www.610wip.com

[pistons]

Brand's quest will be equally difficult if not moreso in the East.

You have

Boston
Det
Orlando
Cleveland

then

Washington
Toronto(much improved)
Miami(much Improved)
Sixers(much Improved)
Bucks(much improved)

Not to mention these teams stand a chance to cause trouble

Nets(improved)
Knicks(possible improvement)
Bobcats(possible improvement)
Hawks(unknown)

Then
Pacers(Suck)
Bulls(Suck)

He didn't go to a team who has a better path. I mean the Clips won 30gms last yr without Brand, Livingston, or with the addition Baron.

In the East IMO there is the teams that are just great :

1. BOS
2. DET


then theres a drop - off to the solid teams that would fight for the 8 seed in the West :

3. WASH
4. PHI
5. ORL
6. CLE
7. MIA

then another drop off to ok teams that would be definite lotto teams in the West but could make it in the East . .


8.ATL
9. TOR
10. MIL
11. CHI

then another drop - off to the just plain bad teams . . . .

12. CHA
13. IND
14 .NY
15. NJ

[CzBoobie]

Boozer left an up and coming Cavs team to join a down and out Jazz team . He left the chance to play with the best player in the NBA for a higher financial windfall . But he was fully in his rights to do so. He took advantage of a team that was trying to take advantage of him , and more power to him .

How exactly did the Cavs try to take advantage of him, can you explain it to me? If the Cavs FO at that time weren't idiots they would have never let him get of his cheap rookie contract and Boozer would have never had a chance to sign with the Jazz. They were doing him FAVOUR to make more money with them and he exploited it to his advantage and took even more money elsewhere, that simple. Yeah, that was insanely bad move from Casv FO but they definitely weren't taking advantage of him by any means...

[pistons]

Boozer left an up and coming Cavs team to join a down and out Jazz team . He left the chance to play with the best player in the NBA for a higher financial windfall . But he was fully in his rights to do so. He took advantage of a team that was trying to take advantage of him , and more power to him .

How exactly did the Cavs try to take advantage of him, can you explain it to me? If the Cavs FO at that time weren't idiots they would have never let him get of his cheap rookie contract and Boozer would have never had a chance to sign with the Jazz. They were doing him FAVOUR to make more money with them and he exploited it to his advantage and took even more money elsewhere, that simple. Yeah, that was insanely bad move from Casv FO but they definitely weren't taking advantage of him by any means...

Yeah they were . . . . See they knew that if Boozer hit the free agent market the following year , they would have to pony up a deal averaging around 10 or 11 mil per season. So they let him out of the deal so they could sign him to a 3 year 24 million dollar deal using the cap room they still had . They figured this was a way of locking him up short term for a cheaper price . The Jazz were the only team left with significant cap room at the time and they figured that the Jaz would be signing Okur and Maggette since they already had Kirilenko at the four . But when the Clips matched the offer for Maggette , Utah spun around and dropped the money on Boozer .

[rjgraca]

^ It's a business and in business you don't let somebody of their contract unless it is to your advantage and Boozer was just playing them with his own agenda saying the right things. Don't be naive that Detroit wouldn't have done the same or any other team for that matter for a supposively trusted employee who was the owner's favorite player. It's business and in business you have the obligation to do what's best for the organization and the CAVs former owner wasn't thinking logically about his favorite employee. Notice that the Boozer loop hole was closed in the last CBA to help prevent newer players with their own agenda from giving their teams a fair shot at their services.

[killbuckner]

The Cavs got screwed- they would hvae been better off just holding Boozer to the bargain deal and then letting him become a RFA. He BEGGED the Cavs to let him sign the 3 year small deal because he didn't want to play one more year for peanuts. Brand didn't screw the Clippers over- they couldn't have stopped him from opting out. He is just an unrestricted free agent who got a better offer and left.

[mmh119]

He's an ultimate Mfer seriously. Let me explain...

It was widely known well before now Elton would give the Sixers a legit shot to obtain his services. He did a radio interview on a New York station a week or two before the draft took place about his possible pending Free Agency. If he seriously thought Philly was going to a be a legit option why not tell the Clips what his intentions were when he opts out to at least give the Clippers a chance to plan for all options? Why tell them you plan on opting out so they can improve the team by going after another possible big time FA in order to retain you? At least show some gratitude and tell the Clips S&T option would be welcomed if it came to it, where it helps both parties. So the Clips don't walk away without any compensation? If he would have informed them and been a true pro about the situation he could have allowed the Clips to swing a S&T deal with Philly. The Clips could have been the team to receive Carney and pick and that's all that would be necessary because both team are under the cap and salaries wouldn't have to match. But instead he opts out, let's the Clips pursue Baron immediately, then let's the Warriors set his market value, then B-lines to Philly allowing them to come very close to the market value, while giving time to Philly, letting them get far enough under by working a S&T with Minny instead of going back to the Clips or even allowing them to work this angle from the very beginning. The Clippers could have given Elton a 6yr deal in a S&T to Philly. Make no mistake about it, Elton for Carney and a 2009 first round conditional draft pick is not an equal trade on paper but compensation nonetheless.

Come on EB if you seriously were considering walking away why not be up front and let the Clips prepare and try and get some reasonable compensation when you do so?

I'm sure this could have been done.

EB=Dickery/Fukkery!

Uhhh think about it... if it was widely known that Elton Brand was going to give the Sixers a legit shot then shoudn't the Cippers have known that? I think any team would be prepared that an unrestricted player might take an offer and sign somewhere else.

Your other big complaint is that the Clippers were not offered Rodney Carney who is pure garbage. If the Clippers wanted him they could of had him it was known throughout the league for 2 days that the Sixers were dumping him. Did it ever occur to you that maybe they did not want Carney? Sorry pal but it is not the Sixers job to help the Clippers get compensation for Brand. Explain why they would give Brand a 6th year when they don't have to? How does that make sense for the Sixers? Thats the point of signing someone who is unrestricted you don't have to give anything up.

Last time i checked it was Donald Sterlings job to try and get compensation for losing Brand I dont see how it is the job of an unrestricted free agent. If Sterling wanted to keep the best player in his franchise history then maybe he should learn how to negotiate and not try and play hard ball when you are the 23 win Los Angeles freaking Clippers.

How many posts are there going to be when the Clippers sign Josh Smith that says MY TEAM SCREWED THE HAWKS SMITH IS A TRAITOR !!!! ?

[killbuckner]

If the Clippers took Carney then they wouldn't have max caproom available to offer to Smith.