Blow this team up!

[whiterasta80]

MB I think you are either overvaluing Bay or undervaluing our prospects. If we wanted him, we definately have the prospects to get him. A trade revolving around Campbell and Accardo would almost certainly fetch him.

[Duffman100]

Can we all admit, please, that Adam Lind is, at best, a 3 star prospect. The guy is an average hitter and an average fielder.

[whiterasta80]

Duffman you don't have to convince me. I'd be more than happy using him as filler in a trade. We need Ryan Howard ver 2.0, not Gabe gross ver 1.1

[Holmes]

MB I think you are either overvaluing Bay or undervaluing our prospects. If we wanted him, we definately have the prospects to get him. A trade revolving around Campbell and Accardo would almost certainly fetch him.

Now I think you are undervaluing Bay and overvaluing our prospects. Right now Jason Bay is raking. He has recaptured his 2005 and 2006 form. Campbell is nothing more than a middling prospect with strong on base skills. Campbell is putting up a gaudy average but he was barely on anybody's radar before this season and he defintely has not boosted his prospect stock to upper tier status that the Pirates will probably be looking for in exchange for Bay. Also I hardly believe that the Pirates will be first in line for a guy like Campbell, especially with 2 time all star Freddy Sanchez manning his position.

The Pirates will most likely be looking for pitching and starting pitching to be specific. They have no problems driving in runs but their rotation is an absolute disaster. They have built their rotation entirely on finesse pitchers with utterly ridiculous WHIP numbers. Their only power pitcher (Snell) has a silly career WHIP as well. Imagine having an entire rotation with Ricky Romero type pitchers. That's the Pirates.

So what could we possibly deal to the Pirates if they were looking for pitching? Our pitching prospect depth is weak and during the past drafts the focus on our lack of good positional player prospects overshadowed the dire need for an infusion of blue chip arms. The pitching prospect corps looks like this, Cecil, a drop, Purcey, then a big drop. Are we willing to part with McGowan or Marcum in a trade for Bay? There's not a whole lot there in respect to satisfying the Pirates's needs.

I can't see how Campbell and Accardo would be remotely enough for Jason Bay. Unless we are playing MLB2K8.

[Duffman100]

Unless we are playing MLB2K8.

Even then, they made trading a lot harder from 2K7.

Those games are sick by the way, love the control over the minor league teams.

[Michael Bradley]

MB I think you are either overvaluing Bay or undervaluing our prospects. If we wanted him, we definately have the prospects to get him. A trade revolving around Campbell and Accardo would almost certainly fetch him.

Bay has a .924 OPS (140 OPS+) right now and is back to the player he was pre-2007 (30 HR, 100 RBI, 100 walks, 900+ OPS). Outside of trading Snider, which would be foolish at this point, who can the Jays deal for a player of that calibre? The Pirates aren't going to take an overachieving 2B and an injured reliever for him. If they want cost effective pitching, they'll likely look at one of Marcum, McGowan, and Litsch, with guys like Cecil and Purcey as throw-ins. The Jays MAY have been able to buy low on Bay in the off-season, but definitely not now. He has a reasonable contract and he's way under the radar as a player. He's an all-star trapped in a bad situation (though the Pirates are getting better).

If the Pirates take Campbell and Accardo for him, it would be purely on massive incompetence. Bay is worth 10 times more than that.

[whiterasta80]

First off I said a trade revolving around those guys, obviously I wasn't suggesting those two alone.

Of course Bay is worth 10 times more than that in a perfect world, but in the MLB world Bay walks in the offseason, plus the Pirates already have serviceable cover for him.

If we offer Accardo, Cecil, Carlson and Campbell for example- they get a legit closer who they control for years, a high potential pitcher, a lefthanded bat and yes, an overachieving second baseman. They won't be able to add that through the comp picks and given what the deadline has been in recent years they won't get a substantially better package than that either.

Edit: sorry I didn't see that Bay was under contract beyond this year

[LLJ]

I have to laugh when I hear Wilner say we don't want to make any knee jerk moves. What? There is no such thing as a knee jerk move when you haven't sniffed the playoffs for 15 years.

I think what astounds me is that there is still fan support for a team that has been on an agonizing treadmill for the past decade and a half. At least in the NHL and NBA, you can undo a moron's mistakes rather quickly, plus it's easier to make the playoffs. In baseball, it takes several years.

[evilRyu]

I think what astounds me is that there is still fan support for a team that has been on an agonizing treadmill for the past decade and a half. At least in the NHL and NBA, you can undo a moron's mistakes rather quickly, plus it's easier to make the playoffs. In baseball, it takes several years.

Well you can't compare MLB with the NBA and NHL. There are the obvious reasons, such as only 4 teams in each league making it to the playoffs, and no salary cap in baseball.

And yeah, we've had it bad, REALLY bad.. but look at teams like the Royals, Rays, Reds, Expos/Nats who has had it worse..

[whiterasta80]

In my opinion there is no difference between your season ending in May (Nats, Royals, Pirates) and your season ending in June (us).

Plus, the past few years it hasn't been the salary cap that has kept us from making the playoffs. The Yankees in particular, but also the Red Sox at times, have been beatable and we have just failed to field a team that could do it.

This team was put together with obvious flaws: too many right handed bats, no true speed, 3 shortstops (none of whom can hit), no true power, far too many reclamation projects, and not enough players in a contract year (the easiest way to ensure a guy stays on the field and tries his hardest is to put him in a contract year).

Just because our pitching staff is pretty good (and don't kid yourself it could improve) doesn't mean that a couple of minor changes are going to fix this. It could happen quickly, but it will take more than one or two trades to fix this.

[RockTHECasbah]

Did we really have a chance to get Lincecum?

[evilRyu]

that was the rumor apparently

[whiterasta80]

I'm a believer that where's there's smoke, there's fire. Maybe we didn't have a shot at Lincecum straight up for Rios, but throwing in a Cecil, or a Janssen (pre-injury) would probably have done the deal.

Same goes for the Lilly for Howard deal etc...

We were just too busy figuring out how to help Oakland out of their latest arbitration issue.

[sule]

JP needs to go, ASAP.

He's unwilling to pull the trigger on any deal that doesn't involve Oakland, and he seems to be incapable of pulling this team out of .500 status, while somehow simultaneously speaking with the ego of a Steinbrenner or Marge Schott.

[whiterasta80]

Ironically, the one time it would have paid to be in the loop for an Oakland trade (Chicago's exchange of nothing for 2 years of controlling Rich Harden), JP was nowhere to be found.

I'm not saying we should be buyers or anything, but that's a deal we should have been considering, even if it was just to flip him in the offseason (he's worth entirely more than they got for him regardless of injury history). Also, that trade probably ensured that AJ is a Blue Jay for the rest of the year (1 less buyer and the value is too low).

[Duffman100]

With Harden and Sabathia on the move...why are we not moving Burnett? Get some valuable minor leaguers.....

This is why JP shouldn't be the GM right now...he's not going to make moves that help this team for the future.

[whiterasta80]

To be honest, with the package of prospects the A's got back for Harden I'm perfectly fine with keeping AJ. I'm not impressed by any of those guys and I'd rather have the picks.