Time to trade Bass for a SG

[mrmreg]

thabo clearly isnt the answer at the 2.

Based on what? Because Italy 23 said so?

[mrmreg]

So exactly where was I when the Mavs board went from overrating Bass to underrating him?

From many of the responses in this thread, I'd say he's still pretty squarely overrated.

I like Bass, as I stated from the outset, but clearly this team has decided to build around Dirk, who plays the same postion. Last year they were thin a C (especially after the trade) and they'd move Dirk over there and play Bass at the 4. With Diop being back, and I assume out of the doghouse, I doubt Dirk moves to C much if ever. That gives Bass maybe 10 minutes a game. I know some have suggested he gets minutes at the 3, but perimeter defense is already awful on this team without moving a PF to SF. Also, I think once Bass sees his minutes get cut this year, it'll be that much tougher to retain him as FA next year. They can't pay him more than the MLE, so any other team with minutes available at the 4 will be more attractive.

So I see him a real nice back-up PF who there's a decent chance is here one year and then walks. He's a nice luxury this year, but the gang of SGs on this team is probably the worst in the league. If Bass can be traded for a SG, even if the SG is a bit of step down in talent, he'd have an opportunity to play much bigger minutes based on the bucket of jack squat he'd be competing with, and they'd probably have a better chance at keeping the guy beyond one year.

Is Thabo Sefalosha the best return for Bass? I really don't have a clue. I didn't watch 10 collective minutes of the Chicago Bulls last year. I would guess many of those on this thread who are somehow certain he isn't the answer, also haven't watched him play much if at all. He's a young guy I seem to recall hearing the Mavs thought highly of when he was drafted. Looking at the box scores, he started to get minutes around mid season last year, and he put together quite a few nice games. When I look over at the Bulls board, it seems they have a fairly high opinion of him. I would guess many of them have never seen Bass play and would say no way to this deal for the same reason Mavs fans say no from their side.

One thing I feel fairly sure of, if this team heads into the season with the gaggle of SGs they have now, they are going to continue to struggle. They have a backcourt that doesn't score well, and doesn't defend well. Bass is about their only trading chip that both offers value in terms of young talent, and isn't an absolute must in terms of the Mavs rotation. He isn't the next Charles Barkley though, and his contract will be a concern for any team, so the type of SG he brings back just might not thrill Mavs fans.

Hopefully though, Donnie actually watches other teams play.

[italy_23]

thabo clearly isnt the answer at the 2.

Based on what? Because Italy 23 said so?

no, because his play says it.
the guy averaged 6.7 points, 3.7rebs, 1.9 assists in 21 minutes of actions. he does this by shooting 42& from the field and 33% from 3 point land, 72% from the charity stripe.
he is 24 years old, has potential, I'll give you that. but what we need is a nice SG NOW, not 4 years down the road. we simply have no time to develop a player, our window is too short to wait on him.
we have enough players of our own who play on the same level as sefolosha, therefore I think he is not the answer at the 2. simple as that.
to give you examples: old stack averages 10.7 points, 2.3 rebs, 2.5 assists in 24 mins, shooting it at 40%, 32% and 89%.
lets not compare thabo to jason terry, cause we know thats no competition at all (maybe in 3 years).
even lowly antoine wright has similar numbers as thabo.
so that tells me, THABO SEFOLOSHA CLEARLY ISN'T THE ANSWER AT THE 2!

[lupa]

Chi fan here. Why trade Bass for Sefolosha? I say you get Ben Gordon and go for championship, he can give you 20 PPG.

Let's say Gordon S&T for 5/55, for Jerry Stackhouse, Brandon Bass, rights to Shan Foster and 2012 1st

[your_dallas_mavericks]

Chi fan here. Why trade Bass for Sefolosha? I say you get Ben Gordon and go for championship, he can give you 20 PPG.

Let's say Gordon S&T for 5/55, for Jerry Stackhouse, Brandon Bass, rights to Shan Foster and 2012 1st

Make it rights to Reshawn Terry and 2011 2nd round pick (along with Stack and Bass) for Gordon and you've got a deal...

[italy_23]

I am a bit reluctant regarding gordon. he is an undersized 2, known ballhog and doesnt play defense very good. still, with this package of stack, bass, 2011 2nd and r.terry I guess you would have to take him. not for the proposed 2012 1st though. (we are running out of 1sts by the way )

[mrmreg]

Chi fan here. Why trade Bass for Sefolosha? I say you get Ben Gordon and go for championship, he can give you 20 PPG.

Let's say Gordon S&T for 5/55, for Jerry Stackhouse, Brandon Bass, rights to Shan Foster and 2012 1st

Gordon does strike me as a bit of a Jason Terry clone, but I'd do that deal. The 2012 pick would be the part I'd be a little weary of, since the Mavs could very well be dreadful by then. At the least it would have to be lottery protected.

Can you even trade 1sts that far out? There has to be a limit somewhere.

I assume the Bulls would want more than Bass and filler for Gordon.

[mrmreg]

thabo clearly isnt the answer at the 2.

Based on what? Because Italy 23 said so?

no, because his play says it.
the guy averaged 6.7 points, 3.7rebs, 1.9 assists in 21 minutes of actions. he does this by shooting 42& from the field and 33% from 3 point land, 72% from the charity stripe.
he is 24 years old, has potential, I'll give you that. but what we need is a nice SG NOW, not 4 years down the road. we simply have no time to develop a player, our window is too short to wait on him.
we have enough players of our own who play on the same level as sefolosha, therefore I think he is not the answer at the 2. simple as that.
to give you examples: old stack averages 10.7 points, 2.3 rebs, 2.5 assists in 24 mins, shooting it at 40%, 32% and 89%.
lets not compare thabo to jason terry, cause we know thats no competition at all (maybe in 3 years).
even lowly antoine wright has similar numbers as thabo.
so that tells me, THABO SEFOLOSHA CLEARLY ISN'T THE ANSWER AT THE 2!

Have you formed your opinion by watching him play, or just by the stats? Just asking, 'cause I admit I've seen very little of him.

But let's look a little further at his stats. His first start of the year was January 15th. Prior to that he was getting a few minutes here and there. From January 15th on he appeared in 41 games. He averaged (by my math) 27 minutes a game, shot 47% from the field, 35% from three, 73% from the line, averaged 9.5 pts, 4.8 rebs, 2.5 assists. Not NBA all-star caliber of anything, but the point is he's a young improving SG.

Also recall, Brandon Bass averaged 8.5 pts and 4.4 rebs, so this is not exactly Elton Brand we're talking about dealing.

Who on the current roster is a young improving SG? I don't see one.

Terry? Not that young, not improving, and most importantly he isn't a SG
Stack? Way not young, decling
Green? Cut by Rockets and not even picked up last year, so certainly can't say he's improving
Foster? 2nd round pick who's never played inthe league, historical odds would say he can't play
Wright? Didn't show any improvement here

I'm not saying Sefolosha clearly IS the answer at SG, just that he COULD BE, and I see no evidence that he CLEARLY ISN'T.

The other thing is, any guy who clearly is a solid starting SG, the Mavs don't have anything to trade for him, so taking a shot at an up a coming youngster who's blocked on a roster (sort of like Bass here) may the the only avenue.

The only other way I can see is for Cuban to take on another big contract on a SG who's team just wants to dump his salary because his play no longer warrants his pay. Doesn't this roster have about enough of that though?

[Realmavsman]

[quote="mrmreg]
I'm not saying Sefolosha clearly IS the answer at SG, just that he COULD BE, and I see no evidence that he CLEARLY ISN'T. [/quote]

I agree with you that there is no evidence that he ISN'T. However I could say the same about Antione Wright, Gerald Green, Shan Foster, James Singleton...

I admit that I like Sefolosha and I think he may turn out to be better than any of those other guys.

My problem is trading a valuable piece like Bass for an unknown like Sefolosha. I think that there is a very good chance that Gerald Green is better than Sefolosha is now in 2 years. Green is 2 years younger. I think if we are going to take a shot on a guy that Green is as good of a shot as Thabo would be.

I would be willing to trade Stack, Bass, Jones...other pieces for a SG who I know will be good from day one. Someone like Jason Richardson (though I don't think we have the goods to get him). But I at least want someone I am sure about. If I am going to go with an unknown I may as well give Green or Wright or Foster or R. Terry a chance and keep Bass.

[mrmreg]

[

Well I guess there's just about no way to be positively certain that any of these guys aren't the answer. I think the evidence against these guys is much stronger though.

Wright- I had some hopes when he was dealt here last year based on what was said about his defense, but if he was really such a great defender, would Avery not have taken more of a liking to him? As bad as the SG position was here, he couldn't get on the floor.

Green- He was cut by the Rockets and no one even claimied him. He's obviously got big talent, but he's on about his last NBA chance. Sometimes a guy like that can hit, but usually they are what they are.

Foster- Rookie 2nd rounder. Extreme long-shot.

Singleton- Seriously? Now there's a guy we can be almost certain isn't the answer. 3 point scorer in Europe and he's going to come be a starter in the NBA? No.

Thabo was a high draft pick (#13) who has been progressing. Agreed he's not a sure thing, but again, if he was, the Mavs couldn't get him. I do think his odds of becoming a solid starrting NBA 2 guard are greater than all of the above guys combined.

No idea what Donnie thinks of him, but I would guess if they want to trade Bass for a SG, this is the type of player they're looking at.

[myconsumerclub]

I'd rather develop our guys throughout the first part of the year and work towards building Bass's trade value by playing him at the 3 some and I sure as heck would rather do that than trade for some Selfloser dude.

[italy_23]

^me too.

I dont know if you understood me: we have only a 1 year window, max 2 years with kidd here. I can tell you that safolosha will not be the answer if you plan to win a championship. you dont need to be a rocket scientist to see that.
safo may have a nice career in the nba or he may not, who cares. there are several players like him in this league, but he still has the chance to live up to his potential one day. he is still young and improves. problem here is that he will not live up to his full potential in the next 1-2 years and therefore he is not the answer

[DDansby123]

^ The Mavs' one- or two-year championship window has as much to do with Dirk and Josh as it does Kidd. At 30, Dirk won't be getting any better as a #1 option, and I don't see Howard (at 28) getting any better either. IMO, Kidd at 36 can still fulfill his role on this team...just as he does now. But I don't see Dirk being able to compete with other #1s at 32-years-old. Dirk can play good ball well into his 30s, but not as a #1 guy. And I can't fathom Howard improving enough by age 30 to compete with other #2s.

Again, I say this team's championship window is limited by its #1 and #2 guys more than anyone.

[bullzman23]

First, I simply cannot see the Bulls having any interest in a Gordon for Bass deal.

Second, in terms of straight up value, the Bass for Sefolosha idea is pretty solid. I like Bass a lot, and Sefolosha would really help you on the defensive end. Although his numbers don't show it, his length is really disruptive for other teams (kinda in a Prince type of way). That being said, the Bulls already have three rotation bigs in Thomas, Gooden, and Noah. They also have two young bigs who have enough potential to warrant a spot on the team in Gray and Simmons.

Paxson has made it clear that Thomas' development is a major priority this season. Thomas has also impressed the team with his work-ethic over the summer. He's not going anywhere, and they're not going to endanger his development by adding another young PF.

Bass would only make sense from the Bulls perspective if Noah or Gooden were going in a separate or larger deal.