Latest draft tidbits

[Icness]

I had breakfast this morning with regional scouts of two teams, one in the NFC North and one in the AFC South, along with a writer/insider for a national publication. Some of the things I picked up:

--Denver is actively trying to trade up to ensure they get either Carriker or Anderson. They are dangling the 21st pick, either a 3rd this year or a 2nd next year, and Al Wilson, who is not going to be cleared by team doctors to play until August at the earliest but some other team might want to take a chance.

--Pittsburgh and Miami have all but agreed to a deal sending the #9 pick and the 2nd rounder that MIA got from NE (#60) to PIT for the #15 pick and #46 pick. Pittsburgh would take Levi Brown, MIA wants Dwayne Bowe or Ted Ginn. That deal is contingent upon MIA being assured they have no shot at Brady Quinn, the #1 player on their board. Interesting that a team with an awful OL would trade down to not take an OL.

--Ginn ran 4.38 and 4.45 40s in spite of limping noticeably after running. That's freaking amazing. He has lost 6 pounds though and was unable to cut sharply or jump hardly at all. Can you say "slow healer"? That's not quite a red flag, call it an orange one, but these guys all agreed he's not in the top 10 anymore.

--Minnesota and Cleveland have talked about swapping 1st rounder (#3 and #7), with the Vikings throwing in Darrion Scott. Sounds like a good deal on both sides to me; we'll see if it goes down.

--the Culpepper to OAK for Porter rumors are legit. They do not involve the #1 pick. OAK has also talked "exhaustively" with DET about Josh McCown. Latest scuttlebut has McCown and one of the Lions 5 (5!) 5th rounders for OAK's 3rd rounder. Just my pure speculation, but that would give DET consecutive picks at the top of the 3rd round, ideal for packaging to move up.

--Reinforcing what I already kinda knew: DET is now very bullish on Gaines Adams and that's who Marinelli wants. Of course he does, he's a DL guy. The Calvin Johnson visit went very well, but the writer sees it as trying to scare TB that Johnson might be gone.

--related story: TB has no real backup plan for the #4 pick if Johnson is gone, because they don't want Peterson, Quinn, or Thomas. They'd probably (not my speculation, I think they'd take Thomas) spring for Amobi Okoye if they couldn't trade down.

--the Patriots are working out several 2nd tier RBs (Jackson, Pittman, Hunt, Booker, Henry) very intently. Apparently Maroney's shoulder injury is significantly worse than expected and he might not be back before October, if at all, in 2007. They have allegedly already tried to talk Corey Dillon into coming back.

Rising stock:
Stewart Bradley, LB, Nebraska: had very strong workouts with BAL and PIT and consistently runs better than expected. His Wonderlic is reportedly the highest of all LBs as well.

Tanard Jackson, CB, Syracuse: very effectively marketing himself as a guy who can play any DB position, the way Jimmy Williams and Jason Allen did last year. Probably a surefire 1st rounder now.

Aaron Rouse, S, VA Tech: one of the scouts is convinced he's going to be an NFL OLB, and a good one a la Thomas Davis. Rouse is open to the move and he does already weigh more (234 in his workout Mon.) than Lawrence Timmons (229 at his pro day) or Jon Beason (233).

Kevin Boss, TE, Western Oregon: ran a 4.62 40 last week in a workout and caught everything thrown near him with his hands. Has moved from 6th-7th round up to 4th-5th round

Falling stock:
Marshawn Lynch, RB, Cal: his off-field issues are resolved but people don't like the way he handled questions about it. He's not getting lots of support or praise from his coaches or teammates, who consider him a "dumb flake". Reportedly scored just a 15 on the Wonderlic (I haven't seen the scores this year yet). He's not the lock at #16 that Packers fans like to think, though he won't fall out of the top 30.

Tank Tyler, DT, NC St.: not a good time to be on probation for assaulting a cop. His conditioning and weight are issues; he recorded just one 2nd half sack his entire college career. Another guy not helped by the Wonderlic (he got a 13) or the interviewing process. Almost certainly not a 1st rounder anymore. The one scout has him as only the 5th best DT on the board, the other had him 3rd but with red flag for character. He could fall as far as the 50s.

Jon Beason, LB, Miami: he changed his workouts twice, missing Miami's pro day with a bum hammy, then refused to work out with a DI-AA LB for fear of being upstaged. Ran better (in the 4.6s), but weighed 5 pounds less than in Indy and cut the workout short because he didn't want to make cuts in the rain. Also of note was that just 4 teams sent scouts to see him. The team I work with has him as a 3rd round talent; one of the other teams has him red flagged for size and injury concerns. I know Mike Mayock gets a boner just thinking about Beason, but almost every scout and writers I've talked to sees very little chance of NFL success.

[Next Coming]

Sticky worthy. Icness drop some info any time you get a chance.

[Manhattan Project]

If the Packers actually passed on Lynch where would he fall to?

[Icness]

Al Wilson got released, so rule him out of that trade scenario with Denver. Don't expect him to sign quickly, but I do believe he's going to be fine and be close to his old self.

The Giants absolutely loved Lynch, but that was before they picked up Droughns and I have not had any contact with Giants insiders or scouts since then. I have to think they'd have a real hard time passing on him though--they have both Plaxico and Shockey and neither of those guys is particularly beloved by their teammates or real intelligent.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

This is some hardcore stuff. Thanks Icness.

[OAKTREE NYK1]

Ice that is some awsome stuff. Love it. What's the trash I am hearing on internet sites that Ginn Jr. is being looked at heavily by the Rams. Do they plan on releasing Issac Bruce or something? I know they just signed Bennett and have taken some losses to the wideout core but drafting Ginn Jr. at 13.... well doesnt that seem like a stretch especially with needs on the defensive side of the ball.

[straightguji]

Is there any chance the Dolphins try to trade up for Brady Quinn?

[OAKTREE NYK1]

If he slides to 6 then the answer would be yes.

[Icness]

Ice that is some awsome stuff. Love it. What's the trash I am hearing on internet sites that Ginn Jr. is being looked at heavily by the Rams. Do they plan on releasing Issac Bruce or something? I know they just signed Bennett and have taken some losses to the wideout core but drafting Ginn Jr. at 13.... well doesnt that seem like a stretch especially with needs on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm getting that vibe too, about Ginn to the Rams. Bruce is at the end of his Rams career, Holt is no spring chicken, so it does make sense on some level. I know the Rams had their director of college scouting, their Dir. of Player Personnel, and both their OC and WR coach at Ginn's workout last week. That certainly indicates a major interest to me. Of course the Texans had basically their entire staff there...

I can't argue with them taking Ginn; I believe he's going to be a difference maker in the NFL, sort of an Ashley Leile without the aloofness but with elite level PR and KR ability. It's certainly not their biggest need now but if they don't take a WR 1st day this year, next draft you can bet WR will be their #1 need.

On a related level, the Rams do like Troy Smith more than most teams, and don't be surprised if Jay Patterson winds up as a Ram in the middle rounds.

[OAKTREE NYK1]

And now to my next question Ice. Do the Raiders really deal the number 1 pick to the Bucs and why do the Bucs fleece there entire draft for one player? I know Calvin Johnson is the real deal but who are the Bucs to be dealing away an entire draft. I think it's a great move for the Raiders who are in dire need of pics. If they do slide to 4 though who will they pic is now the question. Most certainly they could have there choice of Brady Quinn or Jemarcus Russell pending on who the Browns pic. Do they get the Bucs to try to throw in a Bruce Gradkowski just in case the Lions select a QB. Hell there are even in a position where they can trade up with the Lions now to select Russell at number 2. With this being in mind I dont see how the Raiders dont do this deal.

[Icness]

And now to my next question Ice. Do the Raiders really deal the number 1 pick to the Bucs and why do the Bucs fleece there entire draft for one player? I know Calvin Johnson is the real deal but who are the Bucs to be dealing away an entire draft. I think it's a great move for the Raiders who are in dire need of pics. If they do slide to 4 though who will they pic is now the question. Most certainly they could have there choice of Brady Quinn or Jemarcus Russell pending on who the Browns pic. Do they get the Bucs to try to throw in a Bruce Gradkowski just in case the Lions select a QB. Hell there are even in a position where they can trade up with the Lions now to select Russell at number 2. With this being in mind I dont see how the Raiders dont do this deal.

I just don't see the Raiders giving up Jamarcus Russell at #1. They can't move below Cleveland because the Browns would take Russell without question, and Detroit is not interested in moving up, or taking Russell for that matter. He's not even in their top 2 QBs on their draft board (they have Stanton higher). Both teams get who they really want without making any moves, so what's the motivation for either team making a deal?

[OAKTREE NYK1]

At this point It seems the Bucs might be desperate for him fearing any scenario will not have him there at #4. The only way to secure him is to have the #1 pick. If there is no deal in place with the Raiders then they will have to meet the demands of the Lions.

[OAKTREE NYK1]

Lets say the Raiders and Bucs do make this deal then the top 5 looks like this

1. Tampa Bay Bucs(trade with Raiders)- WR Calvin Johnson Georgia Tech

2. Detroit Lions- DE Gaines Adams Clemson

3. Cleveland Browns- QB Jemarcus Russell LSU

4. Raiders- OT Joe Thomas Wisconsin or QB Brady Quinn.


In the secound round the Raiders would select

#33 QB Trent Edwards Stanford
#35 WR Dwayne Jarrett USC
#64 BPA

If this deal does indeed go through the Raiders get the Offensive line boost they need with Joe Thomas. Then in the second They grab the QB they want in Edwards and Kiffin will have his choice of USC wideouts in either Steve Smith or Dwayne Jarrett. I actually think it's a pretty good deal for the talent starved Oakland Raiders. There line was abysmal last year so Thomas would automatically upgrade it.

[WashWiz54]

Any Trent Green news?

[Icness]

Any Trent Green news?

Only that Cleveland is no longer an option, which pretty much leaves it as Miami or bust. And if he does indeed wind up starting in Miami, behind that brutal OL, he's not going to see October, not with the brain scrambling he took.

That's probably a bit on the harsh side but the Dolphins seem to be falling into the proverbial trap the Lions and Texans have been in for years: it doesn't matter who you line up at QB when your OL cannot block. And Miami's cannot block, period (in my best Stephen A$$mith)

[OAKTREE NYK1]

Hey Ice I just want to ask the question in regards to Russell going to the Raiders. With the addition of Knapp and Kiffin they are bringing the West Coast offense with them. Doesnt that mean short precise routes by the wideouts who have the burst to take it to the house? Now Russell just seems to me as the protypical pocket passer that throws deep(Duante Culpepper). All this talk about Al Davis and the long ball gets me to thinking why are they bringing back the dink and dunk West Coast offense. Russell to me doesnt seem to be that type of QB. Now Trent Edwards on the other hand would seem to be the perfect QB for the West Coast offense. Wasnt it just a couple a years ago that the Raiders where toting out Richard "Gere" Gannon who took them to the Super Bowl and just came up short. They also had success with Callahan running the West Coast and then all of a sudden lets go back to throwing it long with Randy Moss and boom goes the dynamite and the start of a pathetic run. Joe Montana,Jeff Garcia,Rich Gannon,Donavan McNabb,Steve Young etc etc all run the West Coast to perfection because they know what to do with the ball not just heave it a million miles up in the air and hope your wideout makes a play. Now that formula does work for some teams like the Cincy Bengals but they dont run that system. Russell would be great throwing deep to Chad Johnson all day but once again Kiffin and Knapp dont preach that type of offense. Bill Walsh the technician of the West Coast has also raved of Trent Edwards potential in the system. My gut tells me that Al Davis will make the stop gap trade for Josh McCown and then draft Edwards in the 2nd. This leads me now to CALVIN JOHNSON who should without a doubt be the number one pick for the Oakland Raiders. At his size and speed he is perfectly built for the West Coast System as a wideout.

[Next Coming]

Are you hearing Posluszny to the Bills as much as I am?

[OAKTREE NYK1]

Seems like a real strecth. But if Willis is off the board then I guess anything can happen.

[Next Coming]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NF ... 041807.htm

Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams and Amobi Okoye admit to smoking Mary Jane at the Combine.

Luis Castillo admitted to steroid use(I believe) before Draft Weekend a couple years ago and he was still selected in the 1st round.

But interesting news nonetheless.

[sportscrazy]

Basically, where do you think Brady Quinn will be drafted next week?

The three most likely candidates are the Browns, Vikings, and Dolphins it seems.

Are the Browns still leaning towards Adrian Peterson or is it a legit 50-50 between him and Quinn? Which way do you think the Browns will go when all is said and done?

Do the Vikings want Quinn at seven or do they want to at least try Tarvaris Jackson for one year before investing first round draft pick money into a new guy? What do you see the Vikings doing with their pick?

The Dolphins are interested in Trent Green, does adding Green affect their interest in Quinn?

And let's say the Browns do draft Peterson, the Vikings do want to stick with Jackson, and the Dolphins do add Green and decide to fill another need with their pick... how far would Quinn drop? An Aaron Rodgers type of drop or would the Bills or Jaguars (maybe even Packers who could trade Rodgers and add a pick in this year's draft to fill other needs) have to take him if he is still there?