JR Smith...again

eyejayem · Post #1 » by **eyejayem** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:32 am

Are we waiting to see if Denver extends a qualifying offer of to see what thay offer him as a deal? Does Ferry wait until August or Sept to offer him a large multi-year contract starting at the MLE with max or near max raises so they would really have to consider matching it? Or does he try to contruct a S&T so Denver does not get burdened?

If Denver matches a large deal then AI and Camby are gone and they start trying to clear cap in a free for all fire sale in my eyes. They have to see if they can keep that 8th seed now that Portland is on the rise . Plus they may have the edge on GS but they have to worry about the Clippers. So thats three teams they have to worry about. Does Melo go on the block again? Thats a whole 'nother case but I really want to know our chances with JR Smith.

rjgraca · Post #2 » by **rjgraca** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:46 am

I have not read anything about the CAVs pursuing JR Smith via free agency (MLE) or by a sign and trade.

Given the CAVs luxury tax cap situation -- I don't think the CAVs will offer JR Smith the Full MLE.

I don't see the Nuggets just trading JR Smith for expiring or letting him go for just the MLE.

Dumping AI or Camby for cap clearing probably won't happen until closer to the trading deadline -- if Denver isn't doing that well in the standings. Making those moves right now wouldn't set well with their fans.

You make a good point about Denver's moves being dependent upon their rivals in Portland and Golden State and the moves they make this off season -- I don't expect Denver to panic and do much salary dumping or letting JR Smith go in the short-term.

Post #3 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:58 am

I think that the Cavs would make one move using the full MLE if they believe that it'd make a significant difference. I'm not positive, but I think this move might fit.

eyejayem · Post #4 » by **eyejayem** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:39 am

Totally agree Outlaw. I think JR Smith fits the Coach Brown's thought of "teaching a shooter to defend before he can teach a defender to shoot." Smith is in that age range that would give him significent time to enter his prime with Lebron instead of ahead. I am not amazed with just JR Smith's skill, I was really amazed by his ability to score and find his shot after AI and Melo. I wouldnt think that there was enough shots on a team after those guys. He automatically competes with Z for secondary scorer and Z will likely concede as usual and do whats best for the team. Gotta love Z.

And RJ I didnt mean that they would go for a salary dump now but if they matched a large offer given to Smith then they would be in worse shape every year due to the escalation in the contract. Regardless of what the standings were they would have to sell. Their contracts are all large: AI, Kenyon, Melo, Nene, Camby, and now JR Smith. Their contract situation would go from Worse to I dont even know. They could lead the division and still have to break it up in the offseason.

Hydroponic3385 · Post #5 » by **Hydroponic3385** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:59 am

I think the Cavs would definitely love to sign Smith for the full MLE, but there's no question that the Nuggets would match. And if we were to extend an offer, we wouldn't be able to trade for him for a long time if things did fall apart for Denver.

Although I can definitely see the Nuggets missing out on the playoffs, that's far from a lock. I'd say the Clippers are not much of a concern considering all they did so far was add Davis and lose Brand. The Kings are destined to be a 9-12 seed team. Memphis, Seattle, and Minnesota are obviously going to not be in the playoffs. And I have a hard time picturing Golden State improving since they lost Davis, and they weren't even in the playoffs last year anyway. I'm almost certain Portland will make the playoffs as long as they're healthy enough, but that doesn't mean Denver is the team that'll get the boot. They could very well finish ahead of some or all of Portland, Dallas, Phoenix, and perhaps even Houston if they falter due to injuries yet again. If Utah has injury problems, Denver could possibly even win their division.

Da_James_Gang · Post #6 » by **Da_James_Gang** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:55 am

Best case is to talk to smiths people about what kind of money he is looking for and then if we feel like its reasonable and he would be interested in coming here. We then talk to the nuggets about a possible sign and trade.......

heathmalc · Post #7 » by **heathmalc** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:35 am

Da_James_Gang wrote:Best case is to talk to smiths people about what kind of money he is looking for and then if we feel like its reasonable and he would be interested in coming here. We then talk to the nuggets about a possible sign and trade.......

gotta agree

Bamboozled · Post #8 » by **Bamboozled** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:55 pm

I don't think it's a guarantee that the Nuggets match an offer to JR Smith. Given the Nuggets inconsistencies, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go after a more defensive minded outside shooter to complement AI and Melo. And while he might learn a thing or two about defense, if coached by Mike Brown, George Karl doesn't seem to be able to emphasize D as much with the current Nuggets

Smooth32 · Post #9 » by **Smooth32** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:35 pm

I'd offer him the full MLE. The kid had a real bright season last year and it looks like good things ahead.

I'm not so sure the Nuggets would match a full MLE offer with them already over the luxury tax by 5-6 million and them being so cautious about it.

I also think it helps that Smith is one of LeBron's best buds.

bcortell · Post #10 » by **bcortell** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:31 pm

I also don't know if they would match the full MLE.. this team did trade their first this year to save some money. Think they want to pay JR Smith close to 12 mill w/ lux tax..

gflem · Post #11 » by **gflem** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:02 am

Do you think if Posey signs elswhere the team will then offer JR the MLE? It seems like Posey is the next domino, then maybe JR if we cant get that done.

eyejayem · Post #12 » by **eyejayem** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:16 am

Its really risky I gues because if they match we cant make a trade for him after that. So I guess seeing if Smith has interest and then working a S+T would work but obviously they would want us to take back a big contract and that would be the tough thing.

aniloman · Post #13 » by **aniloman** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:20 am

I think JR would be a great addition to the CAVS. Imagine Gibson and JR catching passes from Lebron for wide open 3 pointers. Just what the doctor ordered for your team. How you get him now is going to be hard but I think Ferry should do what he can to get him.

LiquidFire · Post #14 » by **LiquidFire** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:26 am

doesnt trading AV for him make sense? (s&t)

aniloman · Post #15 » by **aniloman** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:08 am

Yes S&T makes perfect sense. I think your 1st rd pick may be in line for some pt with his low post offensive game he is showing. Getting rid of AV, which would be a crowd with Ben/Smith/Z at the 4/5 spot would give a some minutes to the rook. JR would round out your squad without spending loads of money on the 2 spot. You could use future cap space on a replacement for Z.

Post #16 » by **corona** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:06 pm

denver will match the MLE, guaranteed. it'd put them in luxury tax for one more season...but jr's worth it, and the owner made that commitment when he signed kmart & nene to huge contracts, and then approved trading for iverson.

doing a sign and trade for denver doesn't make sense. if they refuse to sign jr at the MLE (like i said, won't happen) because of money, then why would they want to take back a different 5.5 million dollar contract? if you value smith more than av, enough to do a s&t....why doesn't denver value smith?

and to make my point further, if they let jr walk for the mle...they're left with 8 players (ai, melo, kmart, nene, atkins, hunter, kleiza, carter)...one of which is considered an above-average shooter. the phones will be off the hook with people calling in to cancel their season tickets and 10 game packages because the team let 2 rotation players walk, and traded a starter for a 2nd round pick. a good portion of this season is riding on jr improving and being on the team. not to mention the next 5+ years.

Post #17 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:28 pm

No right minded person should value Smith more than Varejao. However, people are under the assumption that he's going to opt out of his contract at the end of the season and that he no longer wants to play for the Cavs.

L&H_05 · Post #18 » by **L&H_05** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:36 pm

Didn't the Nuggets just trade away their center and best rebounder for virtually nothing ???

Clearly they could care less about the fans at this point... There seems to be some financial issues there.. In fact, they should just break it up... AI/Melo will never work.. The franchise is simply not going to get anywhere with that team and style of play...

Melo is not really a player you build your franchise around... I understand you have to keep him because of his talent, and he's the draw there, but he's simply not a guy that is going to lead a team to a championship...

Post #19 » by **corona** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:01 pm

TheOUTLAW wrote:No right minded person should value Smith more than Varejao. However, people are under the assumption that he's going to opt out of his contract at the end of the season and that he no longer wants to play for the Cavs.

and he's dying to play his career for the nuggets? last summer it became pretty clear he was in it for the money...denver won't pay him what he wants. so why would he stay here either?

Didn't the Nuggets just trade away their center and best rebounder for virtually nothing ???

is that a rhetorical question? :rolleyes:

Clearly they could care less about the fans at this point... There seems to be some financial issues there..

yea. 80 million dollar payroll and a first round exit. dropping an aging center who's overrated defensively and a slouch offensively was the first move to make. albeit the right to swap future 2nd's isn't great value....but they just saved 20 million next season and still have a 10 million TE to use if the right move presents itself.

In fact, they should just break it up

well...this is a thread about jr smith, so i won't get into a debate about melo/iverson working together.
but wouldn't you agree that if you were to break up a group of players that couldn't get it done and try to assemble something different/younger/more effective....one of the most important things would be to re-sign a 22 year old shooting guard that can get to the rim at will, is dead-eye from 3 and has made tremendous improvements in his all-around game while in denver?

L&H_05 · Post #20 » by **L&H_05** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:18 pm

Sure, but it seems as if the Nuggets have a long way to go to do anything in the league... This core group doesn't mesh..They have plenty of talent, but they don't play a successful form of winning basketball...

If they're going to go younger, and in a roundabout way look to rebuild, than yes, maybe they should hold onto him... However, they're going to have to restructure that entire team/payroll/philosophy, and now start building through trade and the draft...

Essentially what it comes down to in this case is Melo and JR are the core building blocks.. Which I guess is fine.. Then again, I don't believe for one second JR is anything more than a complimentary piece to a team, so I don't know if I would suggest investing a lot into his services..

I do believe he would fit into the framework of our team a bit better due to the fact that his defensive game would improve, and he would have the ability to fire away with wide open attempts... Whereas in Denver (if they do indeed go younger) would be asked to do more... Neither which matters in terms of Denver's feelings on keeping him...

I dunno man, that team is on a slow boat to nowhere, and seems to have a long way to go to get to where they want.. If they feel JR is cornerstone, they should keep him..