Suns/Pacers - Please don't throw things

[count55]

(Note: Apologies to the mods...I couldn't see if there was a trade policy on this board, so if this needs to be moved or locked, I understand.)

I'm trying to find out if the following deal is something both teams might be interested in, hate, or simply hold their noses and do it anyway:

Successful Trade Scenario
Congratulations on a successful trade.
Due to Phoenix and Indiana being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Phoenix and Indiana had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Phoenix Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg.
Incoming Players
Shawne Williams
6-9 PF from Memphis
No games yet played in 2007/08
Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
No games yet played in 2007/08
Outgoing Players
Boris Diaw
6-8 SF / PF from France (Foreign)
No games yet played in 2007/08

Reasoning:

Indiana - We clearly want to move Tinsley out of town. We also could use some help up front and Diaw could do well in the big man rotation. I'm not a huge fan of him or his contract, but the situation in Indy could be similar to his first year in Phoenix. (I could be completely wrong on this, but my impression has been that he and Stoudemire get in each other's way to some degree...more to the point, with the (clearly superior) Stoudemire back in the lineup, Diaw isn't needed to fill the role he did that first year and becomes somewhat redundant.) The risk for the Pacers is that (as I fear) Diaw never approaches his early Phoenix days performance, and we've just added a worse contract than Jamaal's.

Phoenix - The primary reason is financial. In terms of guaranteed money, this only saves about $833k for Phoenix this year, but the total contract commitments would drop by $12.8mm in the deal. Even if you elected to pick up the option on Shawne next year, it would be $10.4mm less. On the court, you get a young, 6'9" shooter in Shawne whose shown some nice ability, but is inconsistent. He's stuck behind Granger and Dunleavy here, and Bradon Rush will probably squeeze into an already crowded wing. Shawne could either turn out to be a really nice player, or a cheap expiring.

You also get Tinsley. I'm not going to try to polish a turd. The good is that he's a productive player at the point when he plays...he was averaging 14 & 8 before a knee injury slowed him down this year. Granted, you guys are spoiled by having one of the best PG's in the game, but those are pretty good numbers by the rest of the league's standards. The bad is he hasn't shown the ability to stay on the floor from a health perspective. He's played over 70 games only once in the last five years, and averaged only 43 games in the other four years of that period. The ugly is that the 43 games he missed last year may not have been because of injury, but because of attitude.

I don't know if you noticed it much out here, but the Pacers/Suns game out in Phoenix on January 9th is kind of infamous in Indy. To refresh your memory, the Pacers led for much of that game before fading in the late fourth and losing it in overtime. Jamaal had 19 pts and 11 assists, but bizarrely went one-on-five down the stretch and in OT, shooting 8 of 26 from the floor, including 0 of 7 from three. A week later, Jamaal sat out the GS game. Ex-Pacer Stephen Jackson said it was a suspension, but O'Brien denied it...it's been grist for the rumor mill ever since. He only played 8 games after Phoenix, and, after shooting the ball 26 times on that January night, he only hoisted 39 shots the rest of the year (less than 5 per game).

So, there's the unvarnished truth as I know it. He could be legitimately injury prone, he could be a malcontent, or he could be a guy who just desperately needs a new start. It's a risk that any team acquiring him should understand. He is your prototypical high risk, high reward guy. Though, in this case, the risk is being mitigated (IMO) to some degree by financial issues.

I'll freely understand if you guys think this deal is awful. I may have a bad read on Diaw and his value. I'm interested in the feedback, and only ask that it not get too ugly. This is not meant as an insult...in fact, the idea came from a deal offered on the Trade Board.

Thanks for your time guys.

[Togo]

It's certainly an idea. I am not totally against this trade, but no mean am I enthused about it either. Probably means it's fair.

[rsavaj]

*throws things*

Just kidding. In all honesty, we're weaker in our frontcourt than we are in our backcourt, and Boris is a backup to the 3/4/5 positions, and as nice as it would be to get rid of his contract, I don't think that the Suns get *better* with this move, but it's certainly not horrible.

[pidi]

i´m on it - since t.lue isn´t coming over we need to trade for a back up pg..
than resign brian skinner and sign up linton johnson and we´re set again..

[NashtyNas]

Im not completely agaisnt this, and i wouldnt mind it happening, but if i had the choice, i would say no. In the trade you specified, suns need more incentive than 2 bad locker room guys. one being a backup PG that plays 40 games per season, the other who gets suspended half the games for off court issues. If you were to add in a first rounder and replace Williams with Stephen Graham, it would be a different story.

Look at something more like:
Stephen Graham
Jamaal Tinsley
2010 First Rounder

for:
Boris Diaw
Alando Tucker

Also, to the guy above me, Lue is most likely to sign with us from what i've heard. I also don't think we are getting ayone back except for Marks or Skinner and Giriceck.

[walkingart]

I don't think it is a bad deal as far as talent is concerned. A matter a fact, if both players were healthy and played equal minutes; Tinsley would cotribute more(most likely).

But, Tinsley, if healthy, won't get very many minutes here with Nash, and Barbs on the roster. Diaw on the other hand, will see time at the 3/4/5, and quite possibly could start at the 3 for us. If his contract were shorter it would most certainly be tempting, but its not. So, I am going to pass.

I might be inclined to pull the trigger on SD1306's deal if the Draft Pick was not protected, and was for 2009 and not 2010. While it may be regarded as a weaker draft, it most likely will be a lottery pick and would give us an opportunity to find someone to fill Diaw's role sooner, rather than later.

Also, Giriceck is gone, his agent let the Suns' know that he has been offered a big contract in Europe and is going to take it.

[pidi]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/bask ... 7714.story

this sounds like he wanna play á casell type of role in boston.
our physicals could help tinsley the way they helped shaq or ghill that he could play at least bout 45 games - harhar

[Purple Palace]

Please no Tinsley. I'd rather put up with Diaw for 82, than Tinsley. Does anyone else recall the miserable chuck fest Jamaal Tinsley put up against the Suns in that overtime game that Nash left in the 4th, Suns came back and rallied to tie and force the game to overtime? Tinsley took all but like 1 shot in overtime and I don't think he made a single shot. Put that together with his regulation performance, and that was one UGLY game by him and probably has me scarred from wanting him.

Edit: I see this was noted in the first post. I just read the trade details and nothing else, then wanted to reply.

[Miklo]

I've been keeping an eye on Shawne Williams and he really is showing lots of potential of late (especially in the summer league).

Still, I'll pass on the trade - we are taking a gamble on Diaw being effective this season and I would give him up, but not for what I'd consider to be at least as big of a gamble in Williams (if you factor in talent and attitude). And sorry to say it but Tinsley goes on the "Pacers Incoming" side of this trade in the form of a breath of fresh air. He's worthless to me and I don't trade Diaw for Williams.

[count55]

I appreciate the input. One thing I'd say about Williams is that he doesn't have an attitude problem, particularly. By most accounts, he's a good kid with the team. However, he runs (or has associated) with a rough crowd (including his father) and made a couple of dumb mistakes. If he ends up in trouble, it'll be most likely that one of his friends/family members screw up, and he's (stupidly) in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Cash]

I'd do it. I really don't think Diaw & Amare can both be effective at the same time on the same team. Tinsley is a good backup point (though a bad starter), and he's at least better than Tyronn Lue. I mean, Tyronn Lue? Come on. Anyway, I expected Williams to be a bust before he was drafted, and he's done nothing to prove me wrong so far, but even if he contributes nothing, the financial savings give the Suns the flexibility to acquire someone more productive per $$$ than Diaw.

[walkingart]

I'd do it. I really don't think Diaw & Amare can both be effective at the same time on the same team. Tinsley is a good backup point (though a bad starter), and he's at least better than Tyronn Lue. I mean, Tyronn Lue? Come on. Anyway, I expected Williams to be a bust before he was drafted, and he's done nothing to prove me wrong so far, but even if he contributes nothing, the financial savings give the Suns the flexibility to acquire someone more productive per $$$ than Diaw.

the problem is we don't get any substantial savings until the summer of 2011. I doubt we can get someone for the $2Mil a year we will save the next 3 seasons.