Why the Clippers Should Not Focus on Smoove

[Rod700]

Here is a post I made on a Clippers thread concerning why they should be focusing on Iguodala instead of Smoove. It seemed to be recieved well on that board. I hope that the Clippers shift their attention to the 76ers since Iguodala is much more obtainable, rather than driving up the price we pay on Smoove, who we would over-pay to keep here. A fear they seemed to have though, was that signing Iggy would not address their needs at PF, as Thorton is too small to play the position. Until we start signing some contracts, I hoped this might be an interesting quick read and possibly a discussion topic for you guys.

The original post is as follows:

Hawks fan here, I could see the Clippers hopping the nuggets next year to make the playoffs if they make the right moves. I think Iguodala is the natural, necessary move to make that would be very beneficial to the team. By using greater cap space to sign Brand, the sixers leave themselves open for you to take one of their best players, due to having greater cap space since Brand's departure. Here's the thing, you don't have to play Thornton at PF. Granted, that after signing Iguodala, PF would still be a need for you guys, but you can still obtain someone to fill that position. Even though your first offer was rejected, NY is still desperate to clear cap space, and the Clips might still be talking to them. If you wanted to make a more cap-responsible move, Haslem is very available as he is stuck behind Marion in the Heat's rotation, and that team still needs to continue getting younger, and needs a point. A starting lineup of Kaman, Haslem (or a similar player), Thornton, Iguodala (who can play SG), and Davis looks pretty competitive. (You could put a three-point guy at SG and move Iguodala back to SF and bring Thornton off the bench if you like).

Signing Iguodala and then trading for someone like Haslem just makes sense. Getting Iguodala at least makes certain that you are getting some substatial talent back for losing Brand. From there, you can trade for an adequate PF. PF does not necessarily have to be a go-to position for you guys offensively. Not signing Iguodala because you are afraid you can't make a decent move to fill in the PF spot afterwards just isn't logical. Get some talent first, then round out your roster. Best of luck guys. You have some good options.

[conleyorbust]

Well, it depends on how much the Clippers are willing to spend but if they can get Iggy in FA and then make a trade for Randolph with Mobley, who's contract runs a year shorter, and DeAndre Jordan or something, they can enter the season with:

Davis
Iggy
Thornton
Randolph
Kaman

And Gordon coming in with the Ben Gordon role.

Of course that might be committing more $$$ than Sterling wants to spend but that would probably be the ideal situation for the Clippers this offseason.

[Harry10]

this is great, i really hope the Clips can some how stick it to Brand.

if i where the Clips i would trade away Mobley (because they have Gordon)
for a smaller contract and or draft pick, and try to offer Iggy 15M

then either keep Iggy, or trade him away after a year for a lottery pick
or a guy like Nene, Maxiell, or Millsap.

[killbuckner]

If I am the clippers I go after Smith... I mean I feel pretty damn good about Baron/Gordon/Thornton at 1/2/3. (Actually I don't like Gordon at all, and thornton not as much as most people but thats beside the point) The hole is at 4.

Harry- do you really think that Iguodala has more trade value than Smith?

[Clip34life]

Boo Randolph. Hooray Haslem.

[HoopsGuru25]

The playoffs are what dtermine similiar players value. For example...Deng at this time last year had much more value than Smith and Deron had more trade value than Paul. Iggy's value probably lowered in the playoffs although I think just about all the top players in 04(beides Dwight)are probably worth the same for what they give their teams on the court.

[killbuckner]

I just think that Hawks fans are confusing reasons why the clips "shouldn't" focus on Smith for reasons they hope the Clips don't go after smith.

For instance- saying "Smith isn't worth the max" is sort of silly when you also would want to see the Hawks match a max offer rather than letting him go. If you think the Hawks are better off with Smith compared to nothing, why shouldn't a team like the Clippers think so as well?

My favorite are the Hawks fans who think the Clips should go after Randolph instead. You all know there is no way in hell that you would ever support the Hawks trading Smith for Randolph- but thats the choice the Clippers have.

If the Clippers strike out on Smith then maybe those other options come into play. Maybe Sterling just isn't willing to pay what it would take to get the ASG to consider letting him walk. But so many of you are have just talked yourself into your own "wishful thinking" reasoning and you might want to step back and look at what you are saying.

[raleigh]

For instance- saying "Smith isn't worth the max" is sort of silly when you also would want to see the Hawks match a max offer rather than letting him go.

Smith isn't worth the max, and a S&T trade should be arranged if any team is really that stupid.

My favorite are the Hawks fans who think the Clips should go after Randolph instead. You all know there is no way in hell that you would ever support the Hawks trading Smith for Randolph- but thats the choice the Clippers have.

No, the choices are either: a trade for a veteran PF (Randolph being the most attainable), overpaying Smith drastically, or offering Smith closer to what he's worth and watching it be matched.

Of those three scenarios, I think it's clear what the Clippers' best option is.

The Clippers' commitment to Baron, Mobley, and Kaman have dictated that they are not in need of a player that "might" become a post option. To compete in the WC this year, they need a proven commodity. Smith isn't that commodity.

[conleyorbust]

I just think that Hawks fans are confusing reasons why the clips "shouldn't" focus on Smith for reasons they hope the Clips don't go after smith.

For instance- saying "Smith isn't worth the max" is sort of silly when you also would want to see the Hawks match a max offer rather than letting him go. If you think the Hawks are better off with Smith compared to nothing, why shouldn't a team like the Clippers think so as well?

My favorite are the Hawks fans who think the Clips should go after Randolph instead. You all know there is no way in hell that you would ever support the Hawks trading Smith for Randolph- but thats the choice the Clippers have.

If the Clippers strike out on Smith then maybe those other options come into play. Maybe Sterling just isn't willing to pay what it would take to get the ASG to consider letting him walk. But so many of you are have just talked yourself into your own "wishful thinking" reasoning and you might want to step back and look at what you are saying.

Well, for one, I think the Hawks might have to match if the Clippers offer Smith max for that very reason. Smith>nothing.

As far as Randolph. No, I wouldn't make that trade but that is taking it completely out of context.

Smith's best attributes are his shotblocking and transition scoring. He is among the best in the game at thost two things. His halfcourt scoring is developing but he is far a finished product there and a halfcourt scorer is what the Clippers want now that theirs has bolted.

Randolph is a far superior halfcourt scorer to Smith or anyone else on the market. I mean FARRRRR superior. Don't forget, he is a single season removed from a 24ppg year and he is only 27 (well 26 but give it 2 days). So for one, he may not be a better player overall but he fills a role better. Second, they might be able to clear a $6M mistake in this deal if they can get the Knicks to take back Tim Thomas. Third, Randolph's contract is up two years earlier which gives them more flexibility down the road when they want to decide what to do with their young wings, baron davis, and Chris Kaman.

[Harry10]

If I am the clippers I go after Smith... I mean I feel pretty damn good about Baron/Gordon/Thornton at 1/2/3. (Actually I don't like Gordon at all, and thornton not as much as most people but thats beside the point) The hole is at 4.

Harry- do you really think that Iguodala has more trade value than Smith?

what you seem to fail to understand is that the Clip realize that the Hawks and
Bobcats will match any offer for Smith and Okafor. While the Sixers are less than
certain to match.

if the Clips waist too much time and effort on Smith or Okafor, then the Clips
will lose out on any of the top free agents.

[Rod700]

- saying "Smith isn't worth the max" is sort of silly when you also would want to see the Hawks match a max offer rather than letting him go. If you think the Hawks are better off with Smith compared to nothing, why shouldn't a team like the Clippers think so as well?

Because Smith is worth more to us than other teams. We've built our team around him and our defense is reliant on him. The Clips can pursue any FA options, and they have an attractive one in Iggy, who the Sixers cannot protect, unlike the Hawks can with Smoove. The fact of the matter is that we will resign Smoove, whatever it takes, and the Sixers should focus on a guy they actually have a great shot at signing.

My favorite are the Hawks fans who think the Clips should go after Randolph instead. You all know there is no way in hell that you would ever support the Hawks trading Smith for Randolph- but thats the choice the Clippers have.

I think your overlooking the fact that the Clips are in a totally different situation than the Hawks. The Clips have one of the best shot blockers in the league in Kaman. They don't necessarily need another one in Smoove. Randolph's low post scoring would be more important to them than Smoove's shot blocking.

If the Clippers strike out on Smith then maybe those other options come into play. Maybe Sterling just isn't willing to pay what it would take to get the ASG to consider letting him walk. But so many of you are have just talked yourself into your own "wishful thinking" reasoning and you might want to step back and look at what you are saying.

I agree that it might not hurt to make an offer on Smoove first, but I'd go ahead and talk to Iggy and let him know we were interested if I was the Clips.

I think you brought up an interesting point of view, but I don't think any of this affects any of the points made in the original post. I don't think it's wishful thinking at all to realize that the Clips have a more feasible option in Iggy than Smoove.

[Rod700]

No, the choices are either: a trade for a veteran PF (Randolph being the most attainable), overpaying Smith drastically, or offering Smith closer to what he's worth and watching it be matched.

Of those three scenarios, I think it's clear what the Clippers' best option is.

I know you're refering to trading for a vet PF as being the best option, but don't forget there are cheaper options than Randolph (like Haslem) if they were to sign Iggy.

By the way, is it just me, or did we all post a very similar response to KB at the same time? We had to all be typing at the exact same time, because when I started on mine, COB's wasn't up yet. That's actually kinda funny.

[raleigh]

By the way, is it just me, or did we all post a very similar response to KB at the same time?

Brilliance x2, I suppose.

I know you're refering to trading for a vet PF as being the best option, but don't forget there are cheaper options than Randolph (like Haslem) if they were to sign Iggy.

Who would they trade for Haslem in that scenario? (I hadn't given him any thought). And who would replace Brand's scoring load?

[Harry10]

By the way, is it just me, or did we all post a very similar response to KB at the same time?

Brilliance x2, I suppose.

I know you're refering to trading for a vet PF as being the best option, but don't forget there are cheaper options than Randolph (like Haslem) if they were to sign Iggy.

Who would they trade for Haslem in that scenario? (I hadn't given him any thought). And who would replace Brand's scoring load?

i'm not sure what value Haslem has, but Mobley is expendable.

"who would replace Brand's scoring load?"....... well Kaman is pretty good, but didn't they just sign a 20ppg PG?, plus Thorton should make some improvements this year.

[killbuckner]

No team would rather have Randolph compared to Smith. Seriously- would ANYONE here rather S&T Smith for Randolph rather than max out SMith? The Hawks have less post scoring than the Clippers do... You guys are being absolutely absurd.

NO ONE outside of this board thinks that the Hawks are SURE to match a max offer to Josh Smith. You guys act like the Clippers have lost something significant if the Hawks match that offer- they just move on to their next plan. They are the only team left in FA- they don't lose anything by signing that offersheet and having it matched. You can say that you hope that thats what the hawks do- but its crazy to think that if you weren't a Hawks fan you would say that the Clippers would be better off trading for Randolph instead.

[killbuckner]

The Clips can pursue any FA options, and they have an attractive one in Iggy, who the Sixers cannot protect, unlike the Hawks can with Smoove.

Rod- what do you mean by this? You know Iguodala is a RFA right?

[killbuckner]

Well, for one, I think the Hawks might have to match if the Clippers offer Smith max for that very reason. Smith>nothing.

But isn't that the situation the Clippers are in as well? They don't have a PF at all right now. Randolph has negative trade value and is worth less than nothing. Remember the Blazers had to eat the Steve Francis contract in order to get rid of him.

If you want to try and say that Okafor is a better fit then I am not going to bother to argue with that... its pretty much in the eye of the beholder. But any discussion for a Smith for Randolph S&T would be absolutely ridiculed- I think its just funny that anyone here would with a straight face say that they would prefer Randolph if they were the GM of the clippers.

[killbuckner]

No, the choices are either: a trade for a veteran PF (Randolph being the most attainable), overpaying Smith drastically, or offering Smith closer to what he's worth and watching it be matched.

Of those three scenarios, I think it's clear what the Clippers' best option is.

Really? I think that either overpaying Smith, or signing Smith to a reasonable option are far better than taking on Randolph. And Signing Smith to a "reasonable" contract doesn't do anything.

[conleyorbust]

Well, for one, I think the Hawks might have to match if the Clippers offer Smith max for that very reason. Smith>nothing.

But isn't that the situation the Clippers are in as well? They don't have a PF at all right now. Randolph has negative trade value and is worth less than nothing. Remember the Blazers had to eat the Steve Francis contract in order to get rid of him.

If you want to try and say that Okafor is a better fit then I am not going to bother to argue with that... its pretty much in the eye of the beholder. But any discussion for a Smith for Randolph S&T would be absolutely ridiculed- I think its just funny that anyone here would with a straight face say that they would prefer Randolph if they were the GM of the clippers.

I agree with you that the Clippers are in that situation which is why I said it. Whether Smith is worth it or not, we might be in a position where we are forced to match.

On your second point, no one is saying that the Clippers would be (Please Use More Appropriate Word) to offer Smith a contract when they can trade for Randolph. Randolph is another option though and, for various reasons, might fit what they want more.

Like I said, Smith's best attributes are shotblocking and transition scoring, those are things that can be covered better by other players on the Clippers. Randolph is, undoubtedly, a better post scorer than Smith or Okafor. Both of them may have potential in that department but as of today, Zach Randolph's 06-07 season was better than what any of the RFAs on the market have put up... he was a worse shotblocking but better scoring version of this year's Al Jefferson. Don't make him seem like he is untalented, I know you like numbers kb, he had a PER of 22.

On the financial end, the Clippers might be able to get rid of Thomas or Mobley in this deal which would effectively lower Randolph's cost (both contracts end before Randolph's) or maybe they just want a shorter contract instead of tying up a max contract in a less proven commodity for 5 years.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. Was Pau Gasol worth Kwame Brown, a middling prospect, and a late first? To the Grizz he was. To Paul Allen, buying out Francis was meaningless so he basically got rid of Randolph, a talented player who was in a crowded position, for nothing. If the Clippers want low-block scoring more than shotblocking and transition scoring or shotblocking and post-defense (Smith and Okafor), moving for Randolph might just be the best option here.

[killbuckner]

COB- I just think that its pretty ridiculous to say that Smith isn't worth signing to a max offersheet if you also think that atlanta should match a max offersheet.

If you are talking about whether Randolph is worth Mobley and Thomas thats a whole different conversation. That actually would generate caproom for the Clippers, not eliminate it.

And the Gasol trade was just what happens when a GM worse than BK deals a superstar. No one thinks it was a good deal for Memphis. (except perhaps the Memphis owner)