OT: My Camby to Clippers for 2nd round pick analysis (long)

[Mcfale313]

I was watching the baseball allstar game (for the reason of Morneau, Mauer, Nathan of course!), and this news from the between innings sports update just shocked me.....

so basically the Clippers gave up nothing to rob Camby from the Nuggets?

This move doesnt make sense to both teams.....well...sort of...

For the nuggets, they now will entrust Nene to be their everyday starting center to pair up with Kenyon Martin upfront, which is one of the weakest defensive interior presence in the league, with no NBA-calibur backup for either of those 2 players.....unless they use that massive trade exception to acquire a..........backup C?.....er....okie....lets say thats true, still nowadays teams couldnt figure out how to use the trade exceptions becoming a trend as they just let those exceptions expire......well the Wolves didn't do that by acquiring Carney, which is cool, but thats kinda off topic.... So the Nuggets and messed up at 4 and 5, and Najera's departure only made it worse. The positive side is now they will have enough money to resign RFA JR Smith. With no draft picks in this year's draft, I envision Denver to fall out of the playoff picture this year and Iverson demands another trade to a contender team by early mid season.

For the Clippers, it looks like they robbed the nuggests and fill the void of Elton Brand, however both Camby and Kaman are defensive minded 7 foot Center through their entire career, neither played the 4 spot and has a reputation of not being an offensive liability, pairing them up might strenghen the Clipper's interior defense, but Camby's no Elton Brand, he can't be that atheltic and doing post moves as well as knocking down mid range Jumpers, and he's way slower. So the opponent team could easily lock down the Clipper's winger and perimeter players(Thornton, Davis, Gordon) to effectively limited their offense. I see them ranking top 3 in blocks and defense in the NBA next season, but without Maggette and Brand, the top two score for the Clippers last season to score as many points, the Clippers will not have very much so an improvment in the upcoming season

Finally I'd like to wrap it up with the Wolves, who I see benefiting from this move. Being in the NW division we meet Denver at least 1 more time than the clippers, without Camby I can see Foye and McCants taking the ball to the hoops more and Jefferson will easily caught in triple team due to the lack of defensive skills from Martin and Hilario, who then pass the ball to the wide open South Dakota Boy Miller to knock down the wiiiiide open 3. I see the wolves won the season serie with the Nuggests 3:1
When facing the clippers, both Love and Jefferson will be undersized against the giant combo of 7 foot Camby and Kaman, but both Jefferson and Love are skill typed front court players rather than physical type, so i'm sure they can use their footworks and other moves to play around the centers and scoring the hoops by passing between each others. I take the wolves won the season series against the Clippers 2:1

go Wolves!

Sorry I'm new to the forum and I might not be very good in analyzing.....so....ur thought please?
^_^ Thanks

[Tirion]

For the Clippers, it looks like they robbed the nuggests and fill the void of Elton Brand, however both Camby and Kaman are defensive minded 7 foot Center through their entire career, neither played the 4 spot

Camby is not a 7 foot center, he's a power forward, masquerading for a center. He doesn't play with his back to the basket and roams on defense. In short he plays like a poor's man KG.

but without Maggette and Brand, the top two score for the Clippers last season to score as many points, the Clippers will not have very much so an improvment in the upcoming season

Brand didn't play last season and Maggete scoring will be covered by Davis... and then some. Scoring will not be a problem for LAC with players like Davis, Kaman, Thornton, Gordon, Mobley, Thomas.

Being in the NW division we meet Denver at least 1 more time than the clippers, without Camby I can see Foye and McCants taking the ball to the hoops more and Jefferson will easily caught in triple team due to the lack of defensive skills from Martin and Hilario

I actually think that Denver's D will improve with this move, assuming that their bigs can stay healthy. Nene is a better man to man defender then Camby was for them and Martin can fill in Camby's shotblocking shoes at least adequately.

[Tirion]

Funny fact: the Nuggets vice president of player personnel is Rex Chapman, who was our main scout or something a few years back. Rumours were that he was groomed for a GM position after McHale, but jumped ship after we drafted McCants.

[the_bruce]

Wasnt denver 10m over the cap? Doesnt this save then 9-10m in lux + slaary 10m + lux benefit from pool 3m?

20-25m as a guess? I'd sell camby for 20m+ any day of the week! If they ship nene/kmart for some shorter deals man....

[Frozen316]

Correct, every dollar over the luxury cap is matched. The total luxury tax collected is then split between the teams not over the luxury cap.

[GopherIt!]

o.k. I have to admit, it's very entertaining over at the Knicks board right now.

[MN Die Hard]

.....unless they use that massive trade exception to acquire a..........backup C?.....er....okie....lets say thats true, still nowadays teams couldnt figure out how to use the trade exceptions becoming a trend as they just let those exceptions expire......

Often times (but not always) the TPEs are created for the very reason it was created here: Denver wanted cap relief so they dumped a contract without taking anything back. To use the TPE to acquire another player would defeat the purpose, so I dont think its a case of teams not figuring out how to use them.

[GeorgiaWolf]

Camby's contract is over in time for the 2010 FA bidding war... Clippers maybe looking at that as well...

[Worm Guts]

Wasnt denver 10m over the cap? Doesnt this save then 9-10m in lux + slaary 10m + lux benefit from pool 3m?

20-25m as a guess? I'd sell camby for 20m+ any day of the week! If they ship nene/kmart for some shorter deals man....

It's great for the owner's pocket book, but I don't see how it does anything for the team.

[shrink]

o.k. I have to admit, it's very entertaining over at the Knicks board right now. :wink:

LOL. On the trade board, I was ripped by a NYK fan for saying I thought Walsh should have instantly agreed to this same offer for Zach Randolph, and shouldn't hold out for more. The deal would have saved them $48 mil, and got them under the 2010 salary cap to make an offer for LeBron.

NYK may be stuck now. I can think of only two teams that might consider trading for Zach, and they certainly don't have cap space to offer saving the Knicks the $14 mil ($28 mil, since they are that far pver the lux!) of Zach's first year .. DET, which is a long-shot, and CLE. And if the CLE front office is even ten percent as committed as the RealGM fans (who have a sticked "NO KNICKS!" thread at the top of their forum), the Knicks may be stuck with Zach. This would be exceptionally painful for Knicks fans who want change. Adding D'Antoni and Walsh were encouraging to the fans, but starting the season with those same old no-effort, overpaid, roster is going to be a shock.

[karch34]

At first it seemed like an over-reaction by the Clippers for losing Brand. I think Kaman is fine offensively, but both of those guys are centers so $10million/yr for Camby it gives them talent but a wrong fit.

I actually think it makes more sense for Denver as they were in the luxury stratosphere with a team that wouldn't compete. That said it seems like a defensive anchor on a team with a lot of scorers and not the right complimentary players didn't seem like the first guy you'd trade.

I can see why both teams did the deal, but I don't think it's a good move for either on it's own.

[Tirion]

At first it seemed like an over-reaction by the Clippers for losing Brand. I think Kaman is fine offensively, but both of those guys are centers so $10million/yr for Camby it gives them talent but a wrong fit.

I dunno where people get that idea. Camby plays like PF on offense, Kaman is a post presence. They fit just fine.

[Worm Guts]

At first it seemed like an over-reaction by the Clippers for losing Brand. I think Kaman is fine offensively, but both of those guys are centers so $10million/yr for Camby it gives them talent but a wrong fit.

I actually think it makes more sense for Denver as they were in the luxury stratosphere with a team that wouldn't compete. That said it seems like a defensive anchor on a team with a lot of scorers and not the right complimentary players didn't seem like the first guy you'd trade.

I can see why both teams did the deal, but I don't think it's a good move for either on it's own.

Even if Denver didn't think they could win with Camby, it's hard to believe they couldn't get some better assets for him. At best it saves them money that can't be used on other players anyway.

[shrink]

Is Camby worth $11.25 mil to the Clippers this year? After losing Brand, maybe.

Is Camby worth $22.5 mil to the Nuggets this year? Clearly not.

[Worm Guts]

Is Camby worth $22.5 mil to the Nuggets this year? Clearly not.

From a fans perspective, who cares? I could care less how much money the owner makes or loses. It may be a reality of the NBA, but as a fan I would hate it. If someone can tell me how this makes Denver better on the court, I'd like to hear it.

[shrink]

Is Camby worth $22.5 mil to the Nuggets this year? Clearly not.

From a fans perspective, who cares? I could care less how much money the owner makes or loses. It may be a reality of the NBA, but as a fan I would hate it. If someone can tell me how this makes Denver better on the court, I'd like to hear it.

I agree that it doesn't help them this year on the court, but I wrote this on another board.

I can understand Nuggets fans frustration, who thought they'd have one more year where they had a chance at a ring. But honestly, when you look at the West, and a couple cominant teams in the East, how slim were the chances that you'd win a ring? To me, it looked like it was no certainty you'd even be back in the play-offs. Being stuck in the middle of the pack is the worst place to be, because its like quicksand. You struggle to improve because you get mediocre prospects in the draft, and your talented but overpaid vets keep your finances from allowing you to make improvements through free agency. Today, Denver is finally beginning to untether from being over the lux.

I think this is the start for Denver of a new future. If they feel frisky, they have a valuable $11.25 mil TPE to chop slivers out for the very best deals, but fixing their own finances is almost as valuable. Perhaps looking for suitors for Iverson for some youth or picks, if you can find someone to make that trade. In any event, I think that this is a deal that helps both teams.

[Dewey]

Very true "Worm Guts".

The NBA is a business 1st. Sure it's a no-brainer for Denver, financially, but it will decrease the value of the team product for Nugget fans. The clippers had to do something, and who knows, maybe they'll now deal Camby to the Knicks for Zach Randolph.

I don't like the Nuggets team before or after the trade, and I think the Clippers are floundering as they try to patch up the roster. Neither team has has the players for very good chemistry.

[Worm Guts]

Is Camby worth $22.5 mil to the Nuggets this year? Clearly not.

From a fans perspective, who cares? I could care less how much money the owner makes or loses. It may be a reality of the NBA, but as a fan I would hate it. If someone can tell me how this makes Denver better on the court, I'd like to hear it.

I agree that it doesn't help them this year on the court, but I wrote this on another board.

I can understand Nuggets fans frustration, who thought they'd have one more year where they had a chance at a ring. But honestly, when you look at the West, and a couple cominant teams in the East, how slim were the chances that you'd win a ring? To me, it looked like it was no certainty you'd even be back in the play-offs. Being stuck in the middle of the pack is the worst place to be, because its like quicksand. You struggle to improve because you get mediocre prospects in the draft, and your talented but overpaid vets keep your finances from allowing you to make improvements through free agency. Today, Denver is finally beginning to untether from being over the lux.

I think this is the start for Denver of a new future. If they feel frisky, they have a valuable $11.25 mil TPE to chop slivers out for the very best deals, but fixing their own finances is almost as valuable. Perhaps looking for suitors for Iverson for some youth or picks, if you can find someone to make that trade. In any event, I think that this is a deal that helps both teams.

I don't see how this trade helps them out of the middle. If they wanted to rebuild they probably could have received youth or 1st round picks for Camby. If they want to fix themselves financially they'll have to dump Martin and Nene, which is going to be difficult. Camby's deal is a lot better than either of theirs.

[Devilzsidewalk]

seems like a bad return for a guy who was defensive player of the year 2 years ago and finished 2nd last year

[Mcfale313]

I agree with Shrink, maybe it is time now for Denver to start unloading contracts, freeing up cap spaces, and sign young players or trade for young talents to build around Carmelo before he gets old~~A good first step is to get rid of Camby
The Knicks are notorious in any of the trades of signings they've made in recent years, i dont think that would change in the next few years either, Walsh is not god, he cant overcome Knicks' tradition of overpaying ppl like Jerome James and trading for lockerroom thugs like Z Randolph and drafting foreign unknown players like Gallinari