Frontcourt's Future

[Celtics_85]

Ainge has gone on record as saying he is happy about the frontcourt after signing POB, so for the short future we seem to be set there. Now what is the future long term as of right now? Many believe we need to make a decision on BB and Powe, that we don't need both for the long term. Now Ainge is also on record as saying POB will vie for time with BB and Powe. There is no dought that Perk is the starter here and Erden will be coming in next year also, so is BB and Powe auditioning for the future of this team or are they both destined for the future?
My thoughts here is like this, if POB proves to be worthy of minutes then one of Davis and Powe will be traded at the deadline next year. We need size and might need to bring in a veteran Center for the playoffs with POB being so young. Maybe Brown will come back or Mourning, who will be ready in about 6 months will play out the season as our veteran guy.
If POB doesn't pan out then Davis and Powe will both play out the season, and we will still need some veteran size for the playoffs. What are some of your thoughts on the long term of our frontcourt and which way we will go with the current guys?

[campybatman]

What Powe brings to the Celtics is invaluable. Every good team shouldn't be without a player like Powe. He's a role player and accepts that or is willing to do so for the Celtics. Let's say that O'Bryant earns his keep after next season. You're looking at a potential center rotation of Perkins and O'Bryant and rookie Erden. If Powe is your back up to Garnett. Then I feel like Davis and Scalabrine are expendable before the trade deadline or after next season. Me, I'm more concern about the future at small forward. Without Posey, you've nothing else besides Pierce. Ideally, Walker can play small forward but it sounds like some see he and Giddens playing in the back court as shooting guards.

So, I do believe Ainge when he says the team is done with adding anyone else at center right now. He must be confident that Erden makes the jump from playing overseas to the NBA and could've a minimal impact in the rotation. If anything, he and O'Bryant give the team much needed height and size in the middle.

[SonicYouth34]

You both make great points, especially about Powe. I think Powe has to stay, he's the glue of the second unit and in all reality, could start at PF on some of the teams in the league and average great numbers.

I don't know much about Erden, is he any good?

For the future we're set at C and PG. I see either Walker or Giddens making great strides and they'll play the SG spot in the future. So like bonsaiflipflops said, the only position I'm worried about is SF.

[billfromBoston]

...Walker is a SF, Giddens a SG...both can play either wing position situationally, but their natural positions are the above...

[buckner1976]

...Walker is a SF, Giddens a SG...both can play either wing position situationally, but their natural positions are the above...

i expect walker to get the "pruitt treatment" next season. bounce back and forth between the dleague and boston. but i think theyll want to keep him close to keep an eye on his development and also give him some time learning with the team and learning from the vets. hr i suspect will be like davis from last year. hell get in a few games sporadically and contribute here and there. but hell be mostly learning as well. btw to me this is the real reason to bring posey back. to have just 1 more veteran these 2 kids can bounce ideas off of. but its also why i dont need posey really for more than 2 years.

[sam_I_am]

POB supposedly has talent but lacks work ethic. He is joining a rotation of Perk and Garnett who are known for hard work. Big Baby obviously has weight issues but he plays hard so at least he works hard on company time. Will this type of competition bring out the best in POB or will he merely be dead weight on roster until he is released. My guess is the latter but if it works out better than that ... great. Maybe he will turn into Tony Battie who was also a lottery bust with his first team.

His role will probably be situational. Against Dwight Howard, Shaq, Yao, Big Z and even Gasol etc. guys like Powe and Big Baby have no business defending them at the Center position because they are just too short. Powe and Big Baby may be better players but they are limited greatly by their lack of size. So having a player who is a true center to back up Perkins is necessary even if he only plays 30 games a year.

[elrod enchilada]

I think that we have a three way battle for minutes behind Perk and KG at the 4 and the 5, between POB, Powe and Big Baby. Posey, assuming we re-sign him, will get some minutes at the 4 in certain situations, but that will not be regular.

At this point, my hunch is POB will be used when length is necessary, against the Aaron Grays of the world who simply tower over Powe and Big Baby. If POB becoems a credible rotation player at the 5, soaking up 15 mpg, that would be unlikely and a pleasant surprise. But it is not out of the realm of the possible. Neither Powe or Big Baby is suited to the 5 because they are 6-6, so let's hope POB can rise to the occasion, in 09-10 if not next season.

It gets interesting with Powe and Big Baby, because they are both active and undersized 4s. Both are RFAs after next season, so the Cs are going to have to make some decisions. I love Leon and think he is an ideal back-up 4. If he plays like he did last season, not to mention if he improves, especially with his defensive understanding and his mid-range shot, I want him inked to a long-term extension in 2009. But where does that leave Big Baby?

One experiment I would not mind seeing next year every now and them is having both Leon and Big Baby on the floor at the same time as the forwards, so alongside another big like Perk, POB or KG. Against some teams I think Powe or a trimmed down Big Baby might be able to handle the defensive assignment with the opposing 3.

Big Baby is the question here. If he improves as much from his first year to his second year as Leon did, all bets are off. He has a world of talent. It all comes down to how hard he is willing to work to improve. Unless he shows marked improvement or unless he shows he can handle minutes at the 3, I suspect he may not be on the Cs come the 2009-10 season. I hope he stays because I like watching him play.

[TheCelticTruth]

bay reminds me, to an extent, of antoine. not in his skills and style, but in that he has a somewhat unique game for a pf and remains effective. he is like an NFL athlete with basketball skills, similar to the reverse impact antonio gates has for the chargers.

if o'bryant can become serviceable, despite the fact that powe and davis are both a little short (though hardly undersized in all honesty, especially davis) im very happy keeping the three of them on the roster for the forseeable future. they have some similarities, especially powe and davis, but definitely bring different things to the table and dont replicate each other.

just because both are on the "wrong" side of 6'9" and outwork other players doesnt make them the same player, which is a notion we seem to have around here a little bit when we say either/or

with those two, and if erden and o'bryant can come anywhere close to their potential, we look to have some solid youth at every position (obviously counting perk and rondo as "vets" at this point, and assuming pruitt will be able to play pg)

[Celtics_85]

I'm gowing to say that POB only has a 25% chance of failure with this team. With all that has been reported and what I have seen of him playing I believe he will get playing time by mid-season at the very least. With a good post game with good hands, good touch, and good foot work he will be just fine on what we need of him on offense. I haven't heard any negatives on his defense at all, just that he doesn't play with much emotion. That can be rectified with the veterans on this team.
I really think if Posey is resigned and POB gets minutes then one of Baby or Powe gets traded for a draft pick. I think these two will be the first two off the bench at the beginning of the year and will be showcased for this team and others until Ainge can decide on who to keep. It is a tough call and I don't really want to see either go, but if Posey plays the 4 against smaller 4's and POB shows he deserves minutes then there isn't a need to keep both on this team, especially if Erden is a player. This could allow us to get a veteran for the playoff run and playoffs, and as I have stated, maybe they can talk PJ into one more half year or Mourning, who should be ready to go by then. The big thing here is we will need Erden next year along with POB with Perk having issues with his shoulder so much, as we will need the size depth. I think both are equal at what they bring to this team right now and the winner of this will be the one who can hit that 15-18 foot jumper consistantly. Who would you rather have if we have to choose? This isn't something that will nessesarily happen, but it could be probable if it plays out the way I think it will.

[cloverleaf]

Wouldn't surprise me to see BBD get traded. I'd hate to see Leon go.

[TheSheriff]

just because both are on the "wrong" side of 6'9" and outwork other players doesnt make them the same player, which is a notion we seem to have around here a little bit when we say either/or

The problem isn't that they are the same player, but that they both need minuets at the four (a position currently occupied by the Celtics best player). If KG plays the same amount as last year, then there are about 15 minuets to split at between them (assuming KG doesn't play much center and no else plays power forward).

[SonicYouth34]

]

One experiment I would not mind seeing next year every now and them is having both Leon and Big Baby on the floor at the same time as the forwards, so alongside another big like Perk, POB or KG. Against some teams I think Powe or a trimmed down Big Baby might be able to handle the defensive assignment with the opposing 3.

I never wanna see Baby or Powe playing the 3 spot, ever.

[billfromBoston]

]

One experiment I would not mind seeing next year every now and them is having both Leon and Big Baby on the floor at the same time as the forwards, so alongside another big like Perk, POB or KG. Against some teams I think Powe or a trimmed down Big Baby might be able to handle the defensive assignment with the opposing 3.

I never wanna see Baby or Powe playing the 3 spot, ever.

...exactly....

[TheCelticTruth]

most teams have two back up power fowards

why should we only have one?

davis is a free agent after next season anyway

we will play some teams where powe makes more sense, and some where davis makes more sense. i dont understand what the issue is with platooning the two and using them as they are needed.

maybe once erden is here, but right now i dont think there is any evidence he is better than either of them. and just because we signed him and gave him a chance doesnt mean o'bryant is all of a sudden cured of his motivational issues. lets not get ahead of ourselves pushing hard working, contributing big men out the door or we could be creating a depth issue.

[Celtics_85]

I think you will find earlier in the thread I stated that POB would have to be capable of of earning minutes for this to be considered, with a 25% failure rate that he would not be capable of being our backup. If POB gets minutes then it pushes KG to play all his minutes at PF which doesn't leave minutes for both. The problem with keeping them both will be about the money, if Powe is worth 4 million then so is Davis. We aren't paying both that money, and another team would find one of them to be interesting as they both have talent. Another team will pay one of them and then we lose them for nothing, and like I said, we aren't paying them both. I will though wait to see how they play together on the court with eachother, with POB being used on bigger Centers, and if POB develops into what he can be then one of these guys are not needed. What we need is three big guys at this point because of Perk's shoulder issue,but KG will fill in there for now until we could find a veteran one.

[NashtyNas]

if we trade anybody from our front court, im sure it will be glen davis and no one else. hes too small (height) and too big (weigth).

[buckner1976]

if we trade anybody from our front court, im sure it will be glen davis and no one else. hes too small (height) and too big (weigth).

i dont think we trade anybody but even so i wouldnt sleep on big baby. he has by no means reached his potential yet. baby is an exceptional passer for a big man, a decent post guy and has shown solid range on his jumpshot as well. id like to see him get down to 270-275 and i think that would help his game tremendously. without question i already expect more consistency this next season for davis. id hate to let him go right now.

[celticfan42487]

Well don't think Big Baby will be able to lose his weight, but it's about as likley of him to do that before the season as O'bryant being a reliable back-up at C all year long. So if Patrick doesn't pick it up then Baby will be needed for some back-up 5 minutes.

Baby defentily has the potential, he technically has a mid-range shot or at least thinks he has one... hasn't been too effective yet.

Baby did go to college though and idk if he can just drop 20 pounds like Perk did.. but it would do wonders for his game and he's still be heavier then almost all the Centers in the NBA.