Andrew Bynum

[NO-KG-AI]

And I've seen Dwight have trouble imposing his will on some of the stronger centers when they use power on him( Haywood, Curry off the top of my head, Yao and Haywood defensively mostly).

Not saying he isn't a super athlete, and probably a top 3 athlete in the league at worst, but Shaq, Wilt, or Hakeem could over power these guys.

For what it's worth, I'll take Shaq's opinion on who is the strongest big man over Kobe's :-/

[kooldude]

And I've seen Dwight have trouble imposing his will on some of the stronger centers when they use power on him( Haywood, Curry off the top of my head, Yao and Haywood defensively mostly).

Not saying he isn't a super athlete, and probably a top 3 athlete in the league at worst, but Shaq, Wilt, or Hakeem could over power these guys.

For what it's worth, I'll take Shaq's opinion on who is the strongest big man over Kobe's :-/

maybe I haven't seen enough of Hakeem, but I never seen a Hakeem highlight where he simply overpowered someone like Shaq or Wilt.

Dwight against the stronger centers might have to do with weight than strength. Wilt was the heaviest player in the league in his era and that's largely why he overwhelmed players with his size; frankly, I don't think he was that phenemonly stronger than the rest that some people here would like to portray.

[Loose Cannon]

Would you guys seriously consider Shaq as "athletic"? I mean, I know strength is vital, and Shaq used his bulk and brawn to bulldoze through players, but generally I regard Dwight Howard's and Kobe Bryant's as athletic...because they're able to be both sleek and finesse and still overpower their opponents. Their vertical is also off the charts.

[tkb]

Did you ever watch Shaq before he came to the Lakers?

If not, watch the video I posted and then tell me Shaq was nonathletic.

[Bgil]

I don't know Bynum's true FG%, but lets say it is 56%, without Kobe, it is likely that his FG% drops down to around 50% or lower.

Under 50%? I doubt that strongly. Without Kobe, his FG% will of course not be 60%+ but I don't see it dropping much below around 52 or 53 percent, personally. He takes shots almost exclusively within 12 feet of the rim, usually within 8. That's Shaq's range and he DOES shoot 60%, even now when he's got no lift and is blowing point-blank layups and stuff and can't dunk as often as he once did. Think about that. Bynum is not far from Shaq's rookie weight and while not as athletic, he's a similar bull around the rim whether he gets the calls or not. The shots he takes are high-percentage looks, that's not apt to change and consequently, his FG% is not likely to plummet in the fashion you describe.

60% is much more likely than 52-53%. Gasol shot 59% in his 27 regular season games. Lamar shot 52.5%. Both of them take more jumpers and outside-the-paint shots than Bynum likely will. Kwame even shot 59% the last full season he was here. No way Bynum shoots less than 60% next season. he'll lead the league in fg% for sure.

[Loose Cannon]

Did you ever watch Shaq before he came to the Lakers?

If not, watch the video I posted and then tell me Shaq was nonathletic.

Well, that's when he was young and thinner, that's not his player profile. A stable for Dwight Howard is his athleticism and he probably already has twice the amount of footage displaying athleticism now, than Shaq for his entire career.

[tsherkin]

60% is much more likely than 52-53%. Gasol shot 59% in his 27 regular season games. Lamar shot 52.5%. Both of them take more jumpers and outside-the-paint shots than Bynum likely will. Kwame even shot 59% the last full season he was here. No way Bynum shoots less than 60% next season. he'll lead the league in fg% for sure.

You need to read what I wrote; I was talking about FG% WITHOUT Kobe, not a projection for what he'll shoot next year, BGil.

Would you guys seriously consider Shaq as "athletic"? I mean, I know strength is vital, and Shaq used his bulk and brawn to bulldoze through players, but generally I regard Dwight Howard's and Kobe Bryant's as athletic...because they're able to be both sleek and finesse and still overpower their opponents. Their vertical is also off the charts.

Absolutely. One of the hallmarks of Shaq's career (and one of the major reasons he's having the struggles he is presently enduring) is that he was always VERY quick for his size and had great explosion upwards off of the ground.

Shaq has never been what he is classically described as being; a raw, unskilled power player. There is a reason he has been as prolific and deadly as he has been over his career and that is his combination of size, athleticism and skill. People tend not to understand how much skill goes into USING your bulk properly, handling various defenses, developing a game of post moves and counters (including all the footwork that goes into establishing and holding position, etc)... understanding the triangle, passing, etc.

So, without even making the "strength is a physical attribute and can be considered part of athleticism, just like coordination," Shaq was definitively VERY athletic. His baseline spin was one of the quickest of any bigs in the league... and he was 320-380 pounds during the three-peat and his last two years with the Lakers.

I know you're not attacking Shaq, not really, but I absolutely loathe when people try to make Shaq seem like some unskilled, lumbering brute on the court. If that had been the case, Priest Lauderdale wouldn't have sucked, nor would DeSagana Diop be as relatively minor in impact as is he for the Mavericks.

During the portions of his career spent with the Magic and the Lakers, Shaq was very good at getting up and down the court (one of the best at the 4 or 5, actually), extremely light on his feet and explosive when he got off the ground. He was inarguably one of the most impressive physical specimens to ever play his position and in general to play in the league. Yeah, his height, wingspan and the combination of raw strength and mass made him dangerous but he was also very athletic in the conventional (and extremely limited) conception of run/jump athletic ability.

[ChargerMan]

[quote="AD28"][quote="tkb"]Did you ever watch Shaq before he came to the Lakers?

If not, watch the video I posted and then tell me Shaq was nonathletic.[/quote]
Well, that's when he was young and thinner, that's not his player profile. A stable for Dwight Howard is his athleticism and he probably already has twice the amount of footage displaying athleticism now, than Shaq for his entire career.[/quote]


Shaq dominated all the way to the finals when he was in peak 'athletic' shape, even in the finals he was awesome, but just didn't have the reliable dishout men he needed.

Shaq with the Lakers was incredible because he kept most of his quickness in terms of bursting power and footwork largely intact while adding 40+ lbs to his already huge frame.

Shaq now needs to become a student of the game again and find a new way to get his game going as he sees without athleticism and bursting ability he draws offensive fouls at a ridiculous rate.

[The_Answer]

What? That definition describes Dwight better than everyone you've just listed. Bill Walton, Marc Jackson, Walt Frazier, and even the Mailman have stated that they have never seen a big man as built and athletic as Dwight.

First off, the keyword is "skilled".

2nd I'd like to see where the mailman himself said that about Dwight. Because Mailman was a beast, Dwight is currently 6'11 265, the mailman was 6'9 260 with all muscle, until that is confirmed I don't by it.

Honestly, eras are seen so differently by everyone. I bet if Dwight played in Hakeems era and Hakeem played today people would be saying that he wouldn't compare athletically to Dwight.

So your saying if young Shaq played in this era and Dwight the opposite, then he wouldn't compare to Dwight athletically? It isn't all about bulkiness, how much the other player benches, or even how strong the player is. Its how to put your skill to use with your size.

You can't even use examples like Moses and Shaq stating that the Dream was the strongest player they've played against because Moses will never have the chance to play against Dwight. Shaq played a prime Olajuwon and by the time that Dwight will be in his prime, Shaq will be long gone.

Why not? Shaq is stronger then Hakeem, and if he says that then he must be trying to say something.

Shaq during a 2005 interview wrote:

"It all started with Hakeem. In my mind, it all ends with Hakeem. He's No. 1. No question. Always will be. I saw it up close."

1st, Mailman said it during the all-star weekend when Superman soared. He said it after he saw Dwight's double-tip dunk off the backboard.

2nd, that isn't even the most accurate definition of an athlete. It actually states:

"a person trained or gifted in exercises or contests involving physical agility, stamina, or strength; a participant in a sport, exercise, or game requiring physical skill."

That's Dwight down to the last hair.

[microfib4thewin]

What? That definition describes Dwight better than everyone you've just listed. Bill Walton, Marc Jackson, Walt Frazier, and even the Mailman have stated that they have never seen a big man as built and athletic as Dwight.

First off, the keyword is "skilled".

2nd I'd like to see where the mailman himself said that about Dwight. Because Mailman was a beast, Dwight is currently 6'11 265, the mailman was 6'9 260 with all muscle, until that is confirmed I don't by it.

Honestly, eras are seen so differently by everyone. I bet if Dwight played in Hakeems era and Hakeem played today people would be saying that he wouldn't compare athletically to Dwight.

So your saying if young Shaq played in this era and Dwight the opposite, then he wouldn't compare to Dwight athletically? It isn't all about bulkiness, how much the other player benches, or even how strong the player is. Its how to put your skill to use with your size.

You can't even use examples like Moses and Shaq stating that the Dream was the strongest player they've played against because Moses will never have the chance to play against Dwight. Shaq played a prime Olajuwon and by the time that Dwight will be in his prime, Shaq will be long gone.

Why not? Shaq is stronger then Hakeem, and if he says that then he must be trying to say something.

Shaq during a 2005 interview wrote:

"It all started with Hakeem. In my mind, it all ends with Hakeem. He's No. 1. No question. Always will be. I saw it up close."

1st, Mailman said it during the all-star weekend when Superman soared. He said it after he saw Dwight's double-tip dunk off the backboard.

2nd, that isn't even the most accurate definition of an athlete. It actually states:

"a person trained or gifted in exercises or contests involving physical agility, stamina, or strength; a participant in a sport, exercise, or game requiring physical skill."

That's Dwight down to the last hair.

Too bad skills pertaining to basketball only such as ball handling, post moves, and FT still escapes him.

[HeyIt'sMe]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but Howard is a very exceptional running big man. Definitely the best in the league today.

I hate using these because they truly are overhyped by people, but in Dwight's case it certainly seems to be the case: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-dra ... =5&sort=12 In terms of centers that they have #'s for that have actually done anything in the league over the years, Dwight runs the floor faster than any of them, and is also one of the quickest (11.21 lane agility). Additionally, as a Magic fan who's watched him since entering the league, with all the weight he's added, he hasn't lost a step of his explosiveness and might actually be even more explosive now.

I'd put Dwight's running game up there with any center in league history, save David Robinson and Wilt.

[eatyourchildren]

When I watch clips of Oden and watch clips of last year's Bynum, I see a lot of similarities. Maybe it's just me.

[superBlazerFan]

When I watch clips of Oden and watch clips of last year's Bynum, I see a lot of similarities. Maybe it's just me.

its just you

[tsherkin]

Well, clips of Oden and Bynum will both show solid positional rebounding, shot-blocking, some basic post moves and physically overbearing players making intelligent use of their size...

[Baller 24]

1st, Mailman said it during the all-star weekend when Superman soared. He said it after he saw Dwight's double-tip dunk off the backboard.

2nd, that isn't even the most accurate definition of an athlete. It actually states:

"a person trained or gifted in exercises or contests involving physical agility, stamina, or strength; a participant in a sport, exercise, or game requiring physical skill."

That's Dwight down to the last hair.

1st) yeah still don't buy it from a guy that looks like this
http://static.flickr.com/92/253476741_890cb66ecc.jpg

oh...

2nd) So you seriously are saying Dwight has already surpassed and will surpass guys like Moses, Robinson, Hakeem, and Ewing?

[XuDa]

Lawl.

Wilt nonsense again. Chamberlain was not an explosive athlete and that much is obvious from the existing videos.

He was nowhere near as athletic as, say, Howard, Shaq, Robinson, BJ Mullens etc

And watch more of Howard in action, please. He's not as quick as Hakeem but he runs the floor AT LEAST as well. Not as fast as Shaq or Robinson did though.

ROFLMAO, Wilt isn't as athletic as BJ Mullens???

Wilt was a track star, a high jumper, and a weight lifting machine, but God knows we shouldn't compare him to BJ **** Mullens.

Dwight hype is beyond ridiculous right now by the way, he's a tremendous athlete in a period starved of star 5's, if he were a better athlete than Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, and Robinson he would be the best player in the league right now.

Don't assume that BJ Mullens lacks athleticism. White does not equate with unathletic.

Let's see Wilt do anything even close to what Mullens does at 0:11 in this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oto65oC ... re=related

[NO-KG-AI]

Lawl.

Wilt nonsense again. Chamberlain was not an explosive athlete and that much is obvious from the existing videos.

He was nowhere near as athletic as, say, Howard, Shaq, Robinson, BJ Mullens etc

And watch more of Howard in action, please. He's not as quick as Hakeem but he runs the floor AT LEAST as well. Not as fast as Shaq or Robinson did though.

ROFLMAO, Wilt isn't as athletic as BJ Mullens???

Wilt was a track star, a high jumper, and a weight lifting machine, but God knows we shouldn't compare him to BJ **** Mullens.

Dwight hype is beyond ridiculous right now by the way, he's a tremendous athlete in a period starved of star 5's, if he were a better athlete than Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, and Robinson he would be the best player in the league right now.

Don't assume that BJ Mullens lacks athleticism. White does not equate with unathletic.

Let's see Wilt do anything even close to what Mullens does at 0:11 in this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oto65oC ... re=related

That's jokes right? You really think Wilt couldn't dunk from that spot? Wilt Chamberlain who used to dunk from the free throw line from a near stand still? You know they outlawed dunking from the line because of him?

When I watch clips of Oden and watch clips of last year's Bynum, I see a lot of similarities. Maybe it's just me.

I agree, Oden is more explosive, but they play a lot alike, they don't take bad shots, they attack the rim aggressively, block shots and rebound well, and trail the break extremely well following the guards for put backs. Using size and length more so than athleticism too...

[XuDa]

Oh yeah, the old Wilt-dunking-from-the-foul-line-from-a-standstill myth. I've heard he also snagged rebounds from height of the shot clock.

Show me video evidence of Wilt getting his head to rim level the way Mullens does on that dunk.

For reference, Wilt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QmhTWmAaBc

Compare that to the video clips of Howard or Mullens. Those guys absolute dump all over Wilt when it comes to athletic ability.

[farzi]

Oh yeah, the old Wilt-dunking-from-the-foul-line-from-a-standstill myth. I've heard he also snagged rebounds from height of the shot clock.

Show me video evidence of Wilt getting his head to rim level the way Mullens does on that dunk.

For reference, Wilt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QmhTWmAaBc

Compare that to the video clips of Howard or Mullens. Those guys absolute dump all over Wilt when it comes to athletic ability.

Isn't it past your bed time?

[XuDa]

Oh yeah, the old Wilt-dunking-from-the-foul-line-from-a-standstill myth. I've heard he also snagged rebounds from height of the shot clock.

Show me video evidence of Wilt getting his head to rim level the way Mullens does on that dunk.

For reference, Wilt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QmhTWmAaBc

Compare that to the video clips of Howard or Mullens. Those guys absolute dump all over Wilt when it comes to athletic ability.

Isn't it past your bed time?

Can't you think of anything more original?

Do you want to comment on the topic at hand or are you going spam the forum with meaningless and useless ad-hominems?