Iguodala

[ckchen]

1. You're right about the luxary tax, that was my bad. I looked up the wrong number. I still think Iggy is less central to the Sixers than the Josh Smith is to the Hawks though, and they would not bid as high. Smith is still a non-option and is a waste of time for you guys. Iggy could resign while you guys are making an offer to Smith.

You're probably right that Iguodala is "less central" to Philly - but the move Philly made for Brand says they want to compete now - which as others have said, make it more likely that they will match. Smith is far from a non-option - the Atlanta ownership has now let Josh Smith go out to Philly on a recruiting trip AND to LA to talk with the Clippers - and they still haven't even tried to do anything on a contract for Josh Smith. That, to me, says that they are trying to let the market dictate his value - and the moment someone decides to pay over market value - the Hawks ownership will have something to think about. If they don't even want to pay market value and are hoping that another team will set the value for Josh Smith, what are the chances that they decide they will basically overpay someone?

2. I'm not sure where the surprise on other power forwards is coming from. I discussed Randolph and Haslem in my first post as different options with different levels of expense.

The surprise is that regardless of which RFA the Clippers sign, they will then have absolutely no capspace left for the acquistion of either of these guys. Your previous post said that signing Iggy would be the first of two moves, which was to follow with the acquisition of a PF - but with all of the cap space going to Iguodala - you've basically blocked yourself off from this so-called "second move" of acquiring either of these PFs.

3. I'm saying Iggy isn't worth as much as those guys and I think you guys could get him for less than the max. I don't think the sixers will offer him anywhere near the max, even if they don't have to go into the luxary tax.

Well, the Sixers offered Iguodala a 5 yr/$57M extension which he turned down - which is basically starting a little over $9.2M/yr in the first year with 10.5% increases. So exactly how much "less" than the max do you think you can go before the Sixer's match? If the absolute maximum salary possible is 5 yrs/$74M, exactly where in this 5 Yrs/$17M difference do you think the Sixer's won't match that isn't anywhere "near the max"? They just signed Baron Davis for 5 Yrs/$65M - frankly, I don't see them topping that offer for Iguodala. And coming up to $65 from $57 isn't exactly a huge stretch.

[loflin3hree5ive]

Signing Iguodala would be a big mistake. Not only do I like Gordon and Thornton more than Iggy, but Andre would be impossible to trade if he were attached to such a huge contract. It would be funny to screw over Brand, but it's not worth it.

[bebopdeluxe]

And I would think that if you are going to pay an RFA more money than you gave Baron Davis, don't you think it would be more salable to him (and the rest of the team) if you give that money to a position of current roster need (PF...with either Okafor or Smith), as opposed to a swingman that 1) you already have on the roster (Gordon and Thornton), and 2) would potentially become an untradable contract?

I agree that Smith or Okafor will probably require more money to have their respective teams' choose not to match than Iguodala - what does that tell you about the value of that position (i.e. PF)? Someone once said to me that 2's and 3's are a dime-a-dozen...it is PG's and low-post guys who define a team's success (with all due respect to the Kobes and LeBrons of the world). It is why guys like Adonal Foyle and Danny Fortson got ridiculous money relative to their production. It is why Beno Udric (who was ON THE STREET at one point last season) just got a hefty MLE contract. As a Sixers fan, I certainly hope that you guys don't hit Iggy with a $60 million offer sheet - although I think we will still match it. The reality is if you hit Smith or Okafor with that kind of offer, I KNOW that their teams will match it. The question is - what happens if you hit Iggy with a $70 million offer sheet? The Sixers may not match an offer like that (even though they easily could, without going into lux tax territory, as has been established in this thread) - but you then take the risk of pi$$ing off your brand new PG, blowing your entire cap space on a guy who doesn't fill an immediate hole in your roster, and - unless he blows up into a Roy/Pierce-type player, becomes an untradable contract in the last 2-3 years of the deal.

(and from my perspective, if you offered Iggy that kind of money, it would be much easier to convince EB that we simply cannot be that stupid with our cap space and we either try to work out a S&T or use Iggy's cap hold on filling our SG position with somebody like Ben Gordon)

Giving Smith a $70 million deal seems to make more sense...his skill set better fits what you currently do not have on the roster, you have as much a chance (IMO) that the Hawks fractured management will not match (despite all of their public pronouncements that they will match all offers), and if - in 2-3 years - you want to move Smith's contract, it will be much easier IMO to move that kind of $$$ for a 3/4 than it would be to move a 2/3.

I understand that the Clippers (and their fans) are pi$$ed that EB went to the Sixers...but signing Iguodala to a $70 million offer sheet (over Smith or Okafor) makes no sense on SO many levels...but we'll see what happens.

[Rod700]

1. You're right about the luxary tax, that was my bad. I looked up the wrong number. I still think Iggy is less central to the Sixers than the Josh Smith is to the Hawks though, and they would not bid as high. Smith is still a non-option and is a waste of time for you guys. Iggy could resign while you guys are making an offer to Smith.

You're probably right that Iguodala is "less central" to Philly - but the move Philly made for Brand says they want to compete now

Those are good points guys. I appreciate the well structured arguments. I wanted to add to something in the quote above. I should have added, that while I was wrong about the luxary tax, the Clips still have greater cap flexibility than the 76ers. Both teams need to fill out their rosters and you of course can't do that once you are over the cap, or too close for that matter. And it looks like other big men were available. Congrats on the Camby acquisition. You guys are going to have the best interior defense in the league with him and Kaman on your roster.

[Rod700]

i dont even know where to start , you are wrong on so many levels.

i think its more likely that the sixers will match based on the signing of EB , the sixers didnt sign EB for ntohing ' they want to compete and want to do it now, i am sure EB was aware of the Igoudala situation and he would not sign unless they had promised him they will match any offer.

on top of that the sixers in the past show that even if they need(and they wont in this case)they will go into luxary tax land when they teamed up AI with Webber.

I'm sure they want to compete now and don't mind the luxary tax, but in signing Iggy, they have to stay well below the cap in order to still be able to fill out their roster.

on top of that the fact that you think Igoudala ia not as valueable to the sixers as JS to the Hakws is baseless as you dont know how does Mo Cheeks or the sixers GM feel about him.

The Hawks front office is nowhere near as compitent as the Sixers front office, and our new guy is a "yes man" to the ownership. The owners know that one of the few good things they have done is drafting Josh Smith. They are wholly dependent on him and Joe Johnson to keep people coming to games and sustaining revenue. They aren't creative enough to find another way.

also how can the Clippers sign or trade for Randolph ot Haslem if they spent there entire cap space on Igoudala , it just doesnt add up.

Don't spend all your cap space on Iggy. The Sixers can't offer him all the money under their cap and still fill out the roster. You can get him cheaper than you realize.

so you base all your argumanet on issues you have no knowledge or control of and you made them up in your mind based on false information and the fear that the Clippers will steal you beloved JS.

We're all speculating here. You can't hold me to a higher standard than you do yourself. In making a decision on what free agent you go after, you have to speculate on whom you are most likely able to attain.

the team who has financial problems because of a rift between the owners is the Hawks , so they are more likely not to match because of the situation.

See what I mean. Speculation. The legal battles that lasted for so long left the Atlanta Spirit Group in charge. If you're referring to the relationship amongst the Spirt Group members. That really is speculation.

[Rod700]

By the way, I'm not sure how the Camby trade affected your cap space yet. I'll look up the details on that. This may all be moot now.

[ckchen]

$3 million in space left. So it is moot.

Don't spend all your cap space on Iggy. The Sixers can't offer him all the money under their cap and still fill out the roster. You can get him cheaper than you realize.

That's the whole piece of your argument that never made sense. You could never sign Iggy and not use a majority of cap space. And getting him "cheaper than you realize" made no sense at all - because at any reasonable price - Philly would have matched.

Doesn't matter anymore.