Ron Artest

Post #1 » by **HMFFL** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:07 pm

So, Ron Artest is on the market (as always) and I think it's very likely a trade happens at some point during his one year contract. He's going to be making roughly $8,450,000.

A. Would you want him?

B. What type of offer would you see reasonable?

Rumor has it Dallas is offering Brandon Bass and Jerry Stackhouse. I also read that LA didn't offer Lamar Odom which had been reported.

I'm positive we can beat that by offering Marvin Williams. While you might be saying that's too much due to Marvin's age, it balances out if we don't plan on keeping Marvin after the upcoming season, and it makes him less appealing due to him becoming a RFA.

tbhawksfan · Post #2 » by **tbhawksfan** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:35 pm

If we sign K. Brown and trade Marvin for Artest, does that put us up to the top of the East? We might be shortening our window of opportunity if we do this.

Does this core get it done?

Horford/Brown/Zaza
Smoove
Artest/Chil
JJ
Bibby/Law

joeshmoe · Post #3 » by **joeshmoe** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:33 pm

I would love to have him. A super tough and athletic lock down defender who can also put up 20 pts a game and spread the floor with his 3 point shooting. The only problem is it is the last year of his contract. But if we didn't plan on re-signing Marvin Williams it is a no brainer. Artest for 1 season is much much much better than Williams for one season.

But I imagine we plan on re-signing Marvin.

td00 · Post #4 » by **td00** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:10 pm

RA has been on my wish list for a long time (since Bird endorsed himi). But since we have BIbby, I have a feeling that will hamper any consideration for him to come here.
For us to be a top 4 team this year, I have to say I would give up Marvin for him before his restricted period. I just can't get past the little success he and Bibby had playing together.
The big factor is while Woody wants vets, I don't think he has the ability to keep RA focused. I know its a FA year for RA, and he is playing for a contract, but the Woody/player factor is always there. RA doesn't appear to respond to 'tough' love.

JoshB914 · Post #5 » by **JoshB914** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:10 pm

I love Artest, and he fits our needs perfectly. I don't know what we would deal for him though.

jagstang76 · Post #6 » by **jagstang76** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:35 am

I would love to RA here as he would definitely push this team up the standing and further in the playoffs. However, I have a difficult time giving them Marvin for one guaranteed year of RA. That's a lot of potential talent for many more years that we give up for an older player with questionable character. If there were any way to get it done without having to let Marvin go, we should do it. I'd even consider Chill simply because we know what he brings us and that may not be as significant as Marvin down the road. I don't know, but it sure would be nice to have Artest's defense and imposing presence on our side.

Hawks · Post #7 » by **Hawks** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:25 pm

I would do the Marvin trade if this was looking like Marvin last year. Having Artest would on make JJ better and the overall defense better.

JoshB914 · Post #8 » by **JoshB914** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:21 pm

if the Kings are wanting Josh Howard from the Mavs then they definetely aren't going to want Marvin as the central piece. This is the exact same thing they did with Bibby, waiting for the perfect deal until he became worth nothing more than expiring contracts.

Post #9 » by **HMFFL** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:01 pm

JoshB914 wrote:if the Kings are wanting Josh Howard from the Mavs then they definetely aren't going to want Marvin as the central piece. This is the exact same thing they did with Bibby, waiting for the perfect deal until he became worth nothing more than expiring contracts.

Not necessarily. What Marvin lacks can be improved on and Marvin will develop more range. The Kings will get younger with Marvin, but what does worry me, is Marvin being a RFA, and the Kings staying a way from him due to those circumstances.

Post #10 » by **KF10** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:39 pm

td00 wrote:RA has been on my wish list for a long time (since Bird endorsed himi). But since we have BIbby, I have a feeling that will hamper any consideration for him to come here.
For us to be a top 4 team this year, I have to say I would give up Marvin for him before his restricted period. I just can't get past the little success he and Bibby had playing together.
The big factor is while Woody wants vets, I don't think he has the ability to keep RA focused. I know its a FA year for RA, and he is playing for a contract, but the Woody/player factor is always there. RA doesn't appear to respond to 'tough' love.

Why makes you say that? Artest and Bibby had a great relationship. Actually, they consider themselves as family. They let their kids play together. They hang out in their respectable houses. They didn't have any significant issues.

And the statement " I just can't get past the little success he and Bibby had playing together." is not completely true. When Artest came to Sacramento before the trade the Kings teams were dead in the water. Artest pushed that team to the playoffs. We had the 2nd best record in the league after the all star break. 27-12 record. And made the playoffs. After that year, we fired Adelman and hired Mussleman. During that year, injuries and the new coach, we sucked. 33 wins. Last year, Bibby was injured for the whole year until January. When Bibby was (almost) healthy, we did have success, with Artest. When we were (95%) full power (Almost healthy Bibby, Artest, Martin) we were potent. But earlier in the year, we saw the emergence of Beno, and factoring how big is Bibby's contract and etc. We decided to trade him. But yeah, we did have seen success with Bibby/Artest.

JoshB914 · Post #11 » by **JoshB914** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:20 pm

Nice post, kingsfan. I couldn't agree more, everything I read about Bibby and Artest pointed to them being quite close.

And the Kings were DANGEROUS that season when they made the Artest deal. They gave the Spurs a real push in the first round too. WHY did they fire Adelman?

Post #12 » by **KF10** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:32 pm

JoshB914 wrote:Nice post, kingsfan. I couldn't agree more, everything I read about Bibby and Artest pointed to them being quite close.

And the Kings were DANGEROUS that season when they made the Artest deal. They gave the Spurs a real push in the first round too. WHY did they fire Adelman?

Simply put, we didn't won a title during our title runs. When he was coach, we made to the playoffs every year but came up short every year. And supposedly, Adelman ( Quiet, reserved and etc)wasn't the ideal "personality" that the Maloofs like. (Energetic, outspoken, and etc).

jagstang76 · Post #13 » by **jagstang76** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:56 pm

I think having Bibby around will actually make this an easier deal to work out as far as Artest is concerned. RA knows him and would only need a little time to pick up the chemistry they had in SAC. He would also have much more around him from a defensive standpoint. I'm pretty convinced he's the guy we should deal for right now. Send Marvin there if it makes it all work, I just know that it will transform this team on many levels. Woody would get his defense-first team to go with plenty of firepower. Artest, Smoove, and Horford would feed off each others' intensity on defense to where we'd be extremely difficult to score on from the inside. RA can also run with the best of them, so our philosophy of defend and fast-break would be devastating.

The only condition to a deal would need to be signing him to an extension. We absolutely cannot afford losing Marvin in the deal and Artest to FA the next offseason.

Rod700 · Post #14 » by **Rod700** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:58 pm

I would love to have Artest and I would offer Marv in a deal for him. It makes the team a little bit older, but so long as we hold on to our picks. I think we would be fine. I think if we could pull off a deal to land Artest, and then had a defensive 7 footer the following year, we be competing at the top of the east.

Post #15 » by **KF10** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:25 am

Just curious, how Marvin is viewed by the Hawks FO? And could you guys describe Marvin's positives/negatives? I don't really have a solid grasp on his game. I just only saw a sample of him in this years playoffs. (Well, the whole series of the Bos/Atl)

jagstang76 · Post #16 » by **jagstang76** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:07 am

Marvin's got a good all-around game. He has a nice shooting stroke that ranges just inside the 3pt line. He has the ability to shoot the 3pt, but he doesn't have confidence in it yet, so he always steps up and shoots. He runs the floor very well, is aggressive going to the rim, and loves to throw it down. Gets to the FT line often and will sink them too. Plays fairly solid defensive and has terrific length/size and athleticism to be a good defender.

So you're probably asking why then would we give up on what sounds so good. Well IMO, he just doesn't seem to have the motivation to be a game changer. He has all the tools you could ever want, but I haven't seen the grit and ability to show up when it counts. I honestly don't think he can't bring it when he wants to, I'm just not sure he that instinct that makes a good player a star. The great thing is he's young and has plenty of time to finally figure this thing out. Otherwise, he's simply going to be a solid vet who can score 12-16 ppg, grab 5 or so rpg, and bring some energy.

IMO, Artest has a game-changing ability in that he plays insane defense. Sure, he can hurt you on the other end, but he's not much more of a scorer than Marvin will be some day. I think it might be worth the gamble to give up Marvin to have what Artest can bring right now. It would definitely push us over the edge and up the standing in the East.

Post #17 » by **KF10** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:36 am

Oh, I see. He seems a good young player. Considering that he is only 22 yrs old. I could see why you say that. But the only I disagree about your analysis is about the ability of shooting the 3. He has career percentage of 23.2 % This year he is ONLY 10 % on 3s. He only attempted 10 3s and only made 1 this year. Im not sure what ability he has on 3s like you said. But he has a nice looking stroke though. Probably in the near future he might develop a 3 point game. You never know. But now, he shouldn't attempt a 3.

What do you mean that "Sure, he can hurt you on the other end, but he's not much more of a scorer than Marvin will be some day."? Artest is a 20 point scorer. He has the inside-out game. Thus creating mismatches to players. There is a misconception about Artest "hurting" us in the offensive end. Artest was our focal point of offense. Thus, he was the #1 option for our team. Our offensive system was based on Artest. Giving the ball to the post and let him score. If not, he passes to the open man if doubled. True, Artest can take bad shots. To tell you the truth, he takes around 2-3 bad ill-advice shots per game. But he has the ability (could) make those high difficulty shots. He is averaging 45.3 % And 38 % 3s (Taking 3.9 3s per game) He is one of the best 2 way players that the league has today. So yeah, I don't know if Marvin could be that dominant scorer as Artest today. I don't know. Just an opinion. Probably he will. Not sure. Time will tell.

JoshB914 · Post #18 » by **JoshB914** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:15 pm

Marvin has been extremely inconsistent during his time here. He is very soft mentally, gets out of control offensively, and falls asleep on defensively. He has a pretty jump shot that should be automatic, is a decent man defender when he's focused, and a great teammate. He's an average SF right now.

tbhawksfan · Post #19 » by **tbhawksfan** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:32 pm

Thing is Artest is a one year rental and a headcase. Marvin is a 22 year old semi phenom with still very high potential. His head is sraight.

Two problems; salaries and the above mentioned. ATL would need something durable to off-set the rental of Artest.

Zaza is the only salary we can add. that adds up to Artest's salary, but ATL needs more. Thompson might get it done. Might take more.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #20 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:00 pm

I think Artest is alot better than some of the names I've heard that we should trade Marvin for (Mike Miller for example who I think would just be Al Harrington pt 2). He is a top 5 SF and the top perimeter defender in the league....However he's on a one year deal and we could easily risk losing him for nothing. This is the 2nd time in under 3 years that he's requested a trade and the Pacers and Kings were pretty loyal to him IMO. I was shocked that he wasn't traded after the brawl and even more shocked that he didn't get traded after that domestic violence incident last year. I just don't see how you could trade Marvin for someone so unpredictable who could leave after only one year w/o us getting any compensation in return.