Which PG from the 1980's would be most effective today?

[That Nicka]

[NO-KG-AI]

I just like the huge mismatch he causes for one.

I'll use my own team as an example, lets say we are playing against Magic and the Bobcats (lol)

Magic Johnson, Jason Richardson, and Gerald Wallace are the guys we have to guard.

Chris Paul can't guard the 6'9 Magic Johnson who is a wonderful post scorer, so Peja or Mo(or posey I guess) are sent to do it, now they have Chris Paul guarding J-Rich, or Gerald Wallace. Now our best player has just become a liability on defense, and it will happen to virtually every team, because who has a PG that can keep Magic out of the post? You sure as hell can't double him.

Also, now those undersized 2 guards like Ben Gordon are more valuable to this team than most others. You can find a good defender that can guard 2's and 3's, let Magic check the lesser wing player, let the undersized 2 guard the opposing PG, and let your defender take the star.

He's so easy to build around, can play so many different roles, and causes so many matchup issues, I don't see any way he isn't the best player on the floor every night of every game in this day and age.

[Jordan23Forever]

You sure as hell can't double him.

You wouldn't have to double him, since you could just sag off your man. Teams don't have to hard double like they did in the 80's.

Further, Magic's teams played at a torrid pace (101-104 pace factor), which they wouldn't be able to do today due to better team/transition defense. The game is just so much different now. There would be no "Showtime" today. Magic would have to operate strictly in the halfcourt, which means no easy buckets and inflated assists from the transition game. And Magic was never the halfcourt player that, say, Steve Nash is. His lack of any sort of pull-up jumper would absolutely be a liability in today's game. A guy like Nash is much more skilled than Magic was. Magic never worked the pick and roll like Nash does, never had the footwork or handle Nash has, and could never keep his dribble alive in the situations that Nash does in order to string out the defense and find open men.

Then throw in the bigger, stronger, more athletic defenders -- and did I mention zone defense? Magic never played against the zone. Nash is probably a better defender than Magic, too. You can't be the best player today unless you excel on both sides of the ball. Just sayin'...

Magic's Lakers averaged 28-31 assists/gm and over 117 ppg. The entire league back then was averaging 110 ppg on 48+% shooting. Compare that to today (98 ppg/45% FG/21 ast). And you think Magic is gonna average 22/13/52% FG? Sure. Magic would probably average around 17 pts/9 ast/47% FG taking all of the above into account. He's no Steve Nash, who is a much more skilled player than Magic was. Unlike Magic, Nash has played in the slowest paced and best defensive era in NBA history and still done his thing. Magic wouldn't be able to cope.

[Point forward]

Are you implying that Nash is better than Magic? "Nash is the better defender, better shooter, better handles, better dribbler, better passer and 1980s < 2000s."

Which I find a bit hard to believe.

[NO-KG-AI]

i think he's using the Kobe fan arguments that they use against Jordan because he knows they won't say it about Magic

[bballcool34]

Are you implying that Nash is better than Magic? "Nash is the better defender, better shooter, better handles, better dribbler, better passer and 1980s < 2000s."

Which I find a bit hard to believe.

He's joking...

[Point forward]

It is "Candid Camera" stuff indeed. Even Nash himself would not think that.

[Jordan23Forever]

He's joking...

I'm certainly not joking. Maybe you people just can't handle the truth. I'm clearly more objective in my technical analyses than any other poster on this site. Soak in my knowledge and realize that Magic probably wouldn't even be the second best PG in the league today (Nash/CP3/Deron), much less the best player.

You can't be the best player in the league unless you're a great defensive player. Period. And don't forget that <wait for it> Magic didn't play against the zone.

[Wade3Iverson]

He's joking...

I'm certainly not joking. Maybe you people just can't handle the truth. I'm clearly more objective in my technical analyses than any other poster on this site. Soak in my knowledge and realize that Magic probably wouldn't even be the second best PG in the league today (Nash/CP3/Deron), much less the best player.

You can't be the best player in the league unless you're a great defensive player. Period. And don't forget that <wait for it> Magic didn't play against the zone.

Is that you Bilge?

[WaltFrazier]

Magic would dominate today as he did in the 80s. Isiah would be great too, similar to Chris Paul.

KJ and Stockton were more 90s players than 80s.

Dennis Johnson would be great, a bit like Jason Kidd now, not as good assist-wise but better defensively. But he and Ainge together were more like a pair of combo guards, the last backcourt where there was no clear 1 and 2.

The best 80s PG not yet mentioned was Mo Cheeks. Any team now would love to have him - quick, smart, unselfish, great defender, 6'3. He's underrated because he played in the era of the flashier Magic and Zeke, plus he played with big name teammates like Doc, Moses and Barkley. And he didn't look to score himself, though he could when he wanted. But he would be awesome now.

[tsherkin]

You sure as hell can't double him.

You wouldn't have to double him, since you could just sag off your man. Teams don't have to hard double like they did in the 80's.

Further, Magic's teams played at a torrid pace (101-104 pace factor), which they wouldn't be able to do today due to better team/transition defense.

*chuckles*

I know you're just being a punk, but this one is a classic "WTF" argument because it's so wrong, lol.

His lack of any sort of pull-up jumper would absolutely be a liability in today's game.

This one too.

Man, J, this is a classic post... Seriously though, next time... green text.

[Basketball1]

Stockton, five short years ago and at age 40, was probably one of the top
5 -10 PG in the league. Now dial back to the late 1980's when he's putting
up 17 points, 14 assists, 3 steals on great shooting percentages and being
selected to the all defensive second team. A period of time when the players
were much better and hand checking was legal. But no, he wouldn't be any
good today!

Steve Nash and his questionable MVP awards have tainted the point guard position
amongst young people - oh my, Nash won 2 MVP's and now that my boy - CP3, Deron
et al are better than Nash, they must be better than those "old guys" who never
even won one MVP. "Old guys" such as John Stockton, Kevin Johnson, Mark Price,
Isiah Thomas, Walt Frazier and even a drug-free Michael Ray Richardson. I'm sure
that I've missed some but the point is that I'd take them before almost any PG in
the league today.

[studcrackers]

how in the hell has nash tainted the PG position? that's one of the dumbest statements ive seen in some time (right after jordan23's statement) i'll take a hundred steve nash's before i take 100 mj wannabees, they've ruined the game. much more so then nash who wants to get his teammates involved and plays about the most entertaining bball in the league

[WaltFrazier]

i'll take a hundred steve nash's before i take 100 mj wannabees, they've ruined the game.

I'm going to assume MJ in this case means Magic not Jordan. I wouldn't say the Magic wannabe's ruined anything, but no one was able to do it. What made Magic unique was his transcendent point guard skills came in a power forward's body. Players after him like Steve Smith, Penny, and others seemed to have the skill, but were unable to be true PG's like Magic. Same is true of Lebron now, he can be a point forward, and has amazing physical talent, but he is not suited to be a pure PG like Magic was.

The fact that no 6'8-6'9 player since Magic has been able to duplicate him is a tribute to how great, and unique, Magic was. Kobe can come along and approximate Jordan, but there may never be another Magic. He broke the mold.

[studcrackers]

no i meant mj as in michael jordan, rarely do people refer to magic as mj. when have there been magic wannabe's?

[B-Scott]

Deron and Nash are not on this level

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BdklgmtiG-M

1987 Magic at 6-9 had developed his post up game which allowed him to be a POST PASSER and scorer from the post. If you double teamed him at 6-9 he could see over the defense and find the open cutter easier then someone who is much shorter. When Nash faces quality defenses in the playoffs he chokes. There is no way Bruce Bowen can check 1987 Magic at his peak. He would take him to the post and Bowen would need double team help which Magic would pick apart with his passes.