Ron Artest Talk

[bruno sundov]

To me, this starting lineup rivals the Celtics lineup. Different style players, but the talent level is equal as (if not better than) the Celtics championship winning starting 5. Anyone esle agree?

From a celtics fan.

Just remember the celts at the 1 and 5 position are young and getting better. Jkid and damp are definetly on the decline. KG and Dirk are about even. You could say dirks Offense is better than KG's. We know KG's D is better than Dirks. Paul has a hard time with RON RON. Ray allen and howard is close. It would be interesting.

[BMF Jet Jaguar]

^ i agree, but RIGHT NOW:
Kidd>>>Rondo, and Perkins>Damp
Howard=Allen
Ron<<Pierce
Dirk=KG
Damp>Perkins
right?

[hph6203]

Couldn't say I was impressed enough by Rondo to consider him a piece on a championship team unless he's playing with KG, Allen and Pierce.

So when you say "remember that the 1 and 5 are young", all I can think is "Yay for the Celtics, they'll have two guys left over from their championship years, and they're going 30-52".

[HMFFL]

The Kings can have Josh Howard as far as I'm concerned, but I expect a better return, and one that provides us with some youth that will work well under our system. Ron should technically land Josh Howard by himself, but considering he's openly said he doesn't want to be a King, and he's a free agent after the end of the season should hurt his value to a certain extent.

[Deus]

So much for me thinking that Josh will remain a forward. Maybe that's why he was putting up all of those shots against the Hornots.

As soon as Artest is in a Mavs uni, Josh slips to the 2 and Artest is the 3. Still don't know if Josh has the dribbling skills as a 2. But here's hoping he gets them soon.

[mavsfoty]

Artest, Mavericks Need Each Other

Good article that breaks down why this deal would be a good one.

[Pointguard01]

As soon as Artest is in a Mavs uni, Josh slips to the 2 and Artest is the 3. Still don't know if Josh has the dribbling skills as a 2. But here's hoping he gets them soon.

Dribbling skills are overrrated. Lets say Dallas is playing San Antonio. Regardless of whether Howard is considered the SG or SF, he was playing against Bruce Bowen. Even if Devean George was out there, Bowen is on Howard. SG and SF are really interchangable. And if we're talking about bringing the ball up the floor, thats what Kidd is for. That's all we'll need him to do offensively with Drk, Artest, Howard, & Terry on the team.

The Kings can have Josh Howard as far as I'm concerned, but I expect a better return, and one that provides us with some youth that will work well under our system. Ron should technically land Josh Howard by himself, but considering he's openly said he doesn't want to be a King, and he's a free agent after the end of the season should hurt his value to a certain extent.

I dont see anyway we get youth from Sacramento. Or any youth that makes a difference. Trading Artest puts them in a clear rebuild mode. They are gonna want to keep their youth. Maybe we could get a Quincy Douby, but he wont get any burn here with Kidd/Terry at PG. Howard for Artest doesnt make much sense for either team. Sacramento needs to go into clear rebuild mode and try to get a top 5 pick next year.

^ i agree, but RIGHT NOW:
Kidd>>>Rondo, and Perkins>Damp
Howard=Allen
Ron<<Pierce
Dirk=KG
Damp>Perkins
right?

Rondo might be a top 20 PG, but probably not. Paul, D.Williams, Nash, Iverson, B.Davis, Calderon, Arenas, Felton, M.Williams, Hinrich, Ford, Billups, A.Miller, D.Harris... And their are at least a couple more you can make great cases for...Udrih, Bibby, Foye, ect. Im sure their are more.

[DDansby123]

Artest, Mavericks Need Each Other

Good article that breaks down why this deal would be a good one.

The article definitely captures the high-risk, high-reward scenario that is dealing for Ron Artest. Given where the team is now, it needs that type of deal to make or break this thing once and for all. Whether Artest is the player we ought to get or not remains to be seen, but it's certainly the type of deal the Mavs ought to pursue.

But I'll admit, I'm becoming more curious as to what type of SG we could get for Bass and Stackhouse in a follow-up deal to Howard-for-Artest.

[Teffer10]

But I'll admit, I'm becoming more curious as to what type of SG we could get for Bass and Stackhouse in a follow-up deal to Howard-for-Artest.

I still can't figure out the Wolves deal to acquire Mike Miller. Miller is about 27-28 on a team that is clearly in rebuild mode.

It would seem the Wolves would have some interest in some of our young talent...maybe Stack, Bass, and Wright for Miller and someone.
Then I would be more interested in Artest.

What do you think about Howard and Dampier for Marion and Blount?
You and I seem to see the long-term effect of some of these deals and that one would give some cap flexibility if we let Marion's contract expire. I also think there would be a better opportunity to resign Marion (opposed to Artest) if he does work out.
Kidd/Marion/Stack/Jones/Mbenga would drop our salary over 45 Mil next season which would put us well below the cap.

[bruno sundov]

Couldn't say I was impressed enough by Rondo to consider him a piece on a championship team unless he's playing with KG, Allen and Pierce.

So when you say "remember that the 1 and 5 are young", all I can think is "Yay for the Celtics, they'll have two guys left over from their championship years, and they're going 30-52".

Hoefully we get 1 more before the wheels fall off the cart. I'm fascinated with RON RON. Wherever he goes I follow him online. He also leaves every situation a lot worse then when he got there. I wouldn't want to give up to much to have him on my team.

[Pointguard01]

I still can't figure out the Wolves deal to acquire Mike Miller. Miller is about 27-28 on a team that is clearly in rebuild mode.

It would seem the Wolves would have some interest in some of our young talent...maybe Stack, Bass, and Wright for Miller and someone.
Then I would be more interested in Artest.

What do you think about Howard and Dampier for Marion and Blount?
You and I seem to see the long-term effect of some of these deals and that one would give some cap flexibility if we let Marion's contract expire. I also think there would be a better opportunity to resign Marion (opposed to Artest) if he does work out.
Kidd/Marion/Stack/Jones/Mbenga would drop our salary over 45 Mil next season which would put us well below the cap.

Minny wold have no interest in Brandon Bass. They already have undersized PFs in Craig Smith & Ryan Gomes on their team.

[studcrackers]

a jefferson/love/bass frontcourt would be pretty solid though

[DDansby123]

It would seem the Wolves would have some interest in some of our young talent...maybe Stack, Bass, and Wright for Miller and someone.
Then I would be more interested in Artest.

And that kind of sums up my point: you can bookend a lockdown defender with mediocre defensive players (e.g., Dirk and Miller or Dirk and VC), but you can't do that with just an above average defender and expect it to work. Artest, with his head on straight, might give us the ability to go out and get offensive help at the SG spot without worrying too much about that player's defensive shortcomings. Howard, IMO, doesn't give us that.

What do you think about Howard and Dampier for Marion and Blount?

It's about like Howard for Artest, IMO. No huge difference for me.

You and I seem to see the long-term effect of some of these deals and that one would give some cap flexibility if we let Marion's contract expire. I also think there would be a better opportunity to resign Marion (opposed to Artest) if he does work out. Kidd/Marion/Stack/Jones/Mbenga would drop our salary over 45 Mil next season which would put us well below the cap.

I'm skeptical about rebuilding without trading Dirk. I just don't think we'll have the pieces to do it right if Dirk's still here, unless we can get WAY under the cap next offseason and lure a big-time FA in here. I'm not holding my breath on that one. Getting under the cap is good, though.

[Teffer10]

I'm skeptical about rebuilding without trading Dirk. I just don't think we'll have the pieces to do it right if Dirk's still here, unless we can get WAY under the cap next offseason and lure a big-time FA in here. I'm not holding my breath on that one. Getting under the cap is good, though.

What about this for strategy?

Trade Howard and Damp for Marion and Blount.

After the season, the Mavs will be about 10-15mil under the cap with all of the expirings (if I've calculated this correctly).
They sign the best FA available that will fit this team. Then resign Kidd and Marion.

Is that possible, or is there a rule that would prohibit that? Does Kidd and Marion have to resign first or would we even have the rights to resign them to contracts that would exceed the cap?

That is all a little fuzzy to me.

[Captain_Obvious]

I know nothing about NBA rules and stuff but i recall that the Clippers had to waive the birdrights to resign Brand to sign Baron Davis and then offered Brand the remaining millions they were under the cap. So essentially when using your capspace for a new player you lose all rights to go over the cap when resigning player(s).

[JES12]

Marion's and Kidd's bird rights would have to be renounced to clear up any cap space to sign someone. If you recall, Brand was renounced to make room for Baron Davis.

[HMFFL]

Mavs nix deal for Artest

The Sacramento Kings have expressed interest in acquiring Dallas Mavericks forward/guard Josh Howard in a trade for All-Star forward Ron Artest, but the Mavericks aren’t interested, according to an NBA source.

The Mavericks reportedly were willing to offer forward Brandon Bass and guard Jerry Stackhouse for Artest. But the Kings wanted Howard included in the deal, halting the discussions.

Because the Mavericks won’t budge on Howard, a potential trade for Artest is all but dead, the source said. Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban declined comment in an e-mail to The Dallas Morning News.

Link

I'm expecting these talks to continue into the regular season.

[JES12]

Maybe the Kings want to watch Bass a little closer.

[JES12]

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/vid ... 8&n8pe6c=2

Stephen A Smith may be annoying, but he is right on this one (after the Tmac talk)

ESPN Sportscenter announcer: I know the Kings and Mavs have spoken about an Artest deal and the Kings wanted Josh Howard included in that. Howard had kind of a rough finish to the end of last season passing out flyers after a playoff loss to a party and things like that. Is he on the trade block right now, Stephen A?

Stephen A. Smith: Well, he is not necessarily on the trading block. They listen to a lot of things, the Dallas Mavericks I’m talking about. But, sources within the organization told me that they are not thinking about moving Josh Howard right now. Like any other player, if a right deal came along, then they would have to strongly consider it and be willing to make a move and certainly he did things that didn’t engraciate himself with the organization, but Mark Cuban has always had a tremendous belief in Josh Howard. And when you talk about trading him for Ron Artest to the Dallas Mavericks, that simply makes no sense whatsoever! Josh Howard can hit perimeter shots, he can rebound, he can defend, he can score, basically, he can do a lot of the things that Ron Artest can do. He’s one of the more similar players to Ron Artest in the league than anybody else, so it really made no sense to the Dallas Mavericks to consider such a thing. You remember that Rick Carslisle is there and although I’m sure he is fond of Artest on the personnel level, he also recognizes how problematic Ron Arrest can be. And he is the new coach in Dallas, so why would he endorse making such a move in favor of Josh Howard? If you can get Ron Artest without giving up Josh Howard, that would be a different thing! But to trade him for Josh Howard? The Dallas Mavericks are not trying to hear that!