Are the Mavericks good enough to win the NBA Title ...

JordansBulls · Post #1 » by **JordansBulls** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:44 pm

Are the Mavericks good enough to win the NBA Title with this current team next season? Or do you think they are still lacking something?

PG Kidd/Terry/Barea
SG Stackhouse/Jones
SF Howard/Wright
PF Dirk/Bass
C Diop/Dampier

mavsfoty · Post #2 » by **mavsfoty** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:49 pm

Right now you have to say no. We basically have the same team that failed to get out of the first round last year.

Still I think it is way to early to even guess. The roster is talented but we haven't seen them without Avery as the coach. A lot of Dallas fans and most of the Mavs FO believe the team underachieved because of Avery's dicator-like approach to coaching. I think the team is better than what we saw last year but still a piece or two away from being considered a legit contender.

Captain_Obvious · Post #3 » by **Captain_Obvious** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:14 am

Well said Mavsfoty

I also think the team is better than looked at from most of the fans and the majority of Mavsfans it seems. The way our FO is holding onto Josh makes me believe he will rebound and play big this season. On the other side we dont get younger and other teams get better or rise. We need one good player that breaks out or a steal through trade. Preferable at the 2 position.

Fastbreak5633 · Post #4 » by **Fastbreak5633** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:36 am

You forgot to mention Jason Terry on there too. But I do think we are about 2 or three pieces away from being able to compete. We need bench players and a solid 2 guard. We dont need a superstar two guard. If we were able to acquire someone like Mike Miller that woulda been perfect. How do u all feel about the low post on the offensive end? Can they produce down there?

Rand10 · Post #5 » by **Rand10** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:23 am

If Howard returns to all-star form, yes.

Post #6 » by **studcrackers** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:25 am

i think rick carlisle will improve our team and we'll win more games and have a better seed then last year. that could mean just a 6 seed or a 2 or 3 seed. but the best i see right now is a 2nd round exit

dirkforpres · Post #7 » by **dirkforpres** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:21 am

If Dirk, Howard, and Kidd can all play to the best of their ability and everyone stays healthy, Maybe. The west is so competitive that 6 or 7 teams can potentially win a championship, but the youth (or lack there of) is what will kill us when we get into the later months of the season and when teams like New Orleans will be hooked up.

Teffer10 · Post #8 » by **Teffer10** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:21 am

mavsfoty wrote:Right now you have to say no. We basically have the same team that failed to get out of the first round last year.

Still I think it is way to early to even guess. The roster is talented but we haven't seen them without Avery as the coach. A lot of Dallas fans and most of the Mavs FO believe the team underachieved because of Avery's dicator-like approach to coaching. I think the team is better than what we saw last year but still a piece or two away from being considered a legit contender.

I'm probably alone here, but I actually see it in another way.

I think Avery was an outstanding leader for this team and was the main reason why this team had the success that it had. However, he was horrible at managing imo and that is what kept us from achieving the main goal and going far in games that counted the most.

So I actually think Avery had this team playing over their heads a few years ago (finals in 06 and 67 wins in 07). Carlisle may make a little difference because he will manage the big games better but I still think this team lacks that talent to match up with the top teams.

JES12 · Post #9 » by **JES12** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:51 am

mavsfoty · Post #10 » by **mavsfoty** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:39 am

Teffer10 wrote:I'm probably alone here, but I actually see it in another way.

I think Avery was an outstanding leader for this team and was the main reason why this team had the success that it had. However, he was horrible at managing imo and that is what kept us from achieving the main goal and going far in games that counted the most.

So I actually think Avery had this team playing over their heads a few years ago (finals in 06 and 67 wins in 07). Carlisle may make a little difference because he will manage the big games better but I still think this team lacks that talent to match up with the top teams.

Teffer's its weird becuase we agree but we see the end result differently. It's hard far me to say negative things about Avery when he took this franchise to the Finals but bottomline he is/was exactly what you said a good leader and a great motivator but struggled with the X&O's aspect of coaching. I'll agree he got them to play over their heads and make it to the Finals and win 67 games and both those seasons ended when he got outcoached by Riley and Nellie.

After ending those two seasons that way (remarkably devestating) the players including Dirk stopped buying what he was selling. The toned him out and it effected this team. When the Kidd trade was made there was hope that Avery would loosen the reigns and this team would be invegerated. It didn't happen completely. So here we sit waiting for the chance to see how this team will do in a different offense, better suited to our strengths, with a Coach that is a much better X&O's guy.

I still see this team as a playoff team that needs something to get over that preverbial hump. I guess I just have a bit more faith in what we have and the effect RC will have on the team.

dirtyfilthynasty · Post #11 » by **dirtyfilthynasty** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:33 pm

hell no.

Post #12 » by **catalyst** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:53 pm

I always love the remembrance of history. 3 years ago the prevailing opinion was avery could take any player and make him a star. Now he is the root cause of every maverick problem, and Carlisle is going to solve them all. We will see when camp starts and the season starts where this team will end up. Last year's post trade team was not very good, and I go with that until proven different. they were a .500 team with Kidd.

your_dallas_mavericks · Post #13 » by **your_dallas_mavericks** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:23 pm

Cat, give the Mavs 28 games to start the regular season with Kidd as PG and Carlisle at the helm. Compare that 28 game stretch to the post-trade 28 game stretch at the end of last season. That is the most logical way to compare.

Kidd + Mavs + Training Camp + Carlisle - Avery = a much better Mavs team.

Teffer10 · Post #14 » by **Teffer10** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:37 pm

mavsfoty wrote:Teffer's its weird becuase we agree but we see the end result differently. It's hard far me to say negative things about Avery when he took this franchise to the Finals but bottomline he is/was exactly what you said a good leader and a great motivator but struggled with the X&O's aspect of coaching. I'll agree he got them to play over their heads and make it to the Finals and win 67 games and both those seasons ended when he got outcoached by Riley and Nellie.

After ending those two seasons that way (remarkably devestating) the players including Dirk stopped buying what he was selling. The toned him out and it effected this team. When the Kidd trade was made there was hope that Avery would loosen the reigns and this team would be invegerated. It didn't happen completely. So here we sit waiting for the chance to see how this team will do in a different offense, better suited to our strengths, with a Coach that is a much better X&O's guy.

I still see this team as a playoff team that needs something to get over that preverbial hump. I guess I just have a bit more faith in what we have and the effect RC will have on the team.

All of this makes good sense and I agree. The only difference is that I think this team is missing too many physical pieces to be legit contenders and does not have the means (trading resources) to get there.

your_dallas_mavericks · Post #15 » by **your_dallas_mavericks** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:44 pm

Teffer10 wrote:
mavsfoty wrote:Teffer's its weird becuase we agree but we see the end result differently. It's hard far me to say negative things about Avery when he took this franchise to the Finals but bottomline he is/was exactly what you said a good leader and a great motivator but struggled with the X&O's aspect of coaching. I'll agree he got them to play over their heads and make it to the Finals and win 67 games and both those seasons ended when he got outcoached by Riley and Nellie.

After ending those two seasons that way (remarkably devestating) the players including Dirk stopped buying what he was selling. The toned him out and it effected this team. When the Kidd trade was made there was hope that Avery would loosen the reigns and this team would be invegerated. It didn't happen completely. So here we sit waiting for the chance to see how this team will do in a different offense, better suited to our strengths, with a Coach that is a much better X&O's guy.

I still see this team as a playoff team that needs something to get over that preverbial hump. I guess I just have a bit more faith in what we have and the effect RC will have on the team.

All of this makes good sense and I agree. The only difference is that I think this team is missing too many physical pieces to be legit contenders and does not have the means (trading resources) to get there.

We're two pre-season trades away from going all the way. Of course, Mr. Optimism voted yes.

JES12 · Post #16 » by **JES12** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:54 pm

your_dallas_mavericks wrote:Kidd + Mavs + Training Camp + Carlisle - Avery = a much better Mavs team.

Kidd - Harris + Mavs + Training Camp + Carlisle - Avery = 1st round exit again

your_dallas_mavericks · Post #17 » by **your_dallas_mavericks** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:08 pm

JES12 wrote:
your_dallas_mavericks wrote:Kidd + Mavs + Training Camp + Carlisle - Avery = a much better Mavs team.

Kidd - Harris + Mavs + Training Camp + Carlisle - Avery = 1st round exit again

Carlisle's teams play much over their head. In turn, the team will be better especially when it counts.

myconsumerclub · Post #18 » by **myconsumerclub** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:31 pm

I voted yes but to explain I need to say that I voted that way for 2 reasons.

1. The team is not finished making moves and I see them improving via a trade or signing. If by doing nothing than getting rid of Stack and Jones from this roster we are better than last years team. We can get one more piece and that might do it.

Diop will help and would have helped against NO. We need to build a deep team to capture home court and then we can win. No home court = out of the play offs.

This is why it's important to have young legs that can run and contribute. Jason Terry will see more time at backup PG under Carlisle and that will help matters by limiting his defensive weakness at the 2 and allowing a younger player to develop for the future which we hope is still intact for the playoffs (remember what Houston did last year).

Whatever we do tradewise this team is better with Foster Green Wright Rat and Singleton and possibly Rhodes than it was with Stack George Magliore Allen Lue and Jones. Bass will likely be better and Howard should be. With Kidd returning to see this team through a training camp and a good game plan from RC this new version will be the best we have had in years.

They can't strike out on all of the kids, someone has to step up and be this years Bass. Yes it would be nice to add a VC, Artest or one of Atlanta's Joshes but that is wishful thinking and we need to address this teams needs in a more viable and realistic manner.

2. I buy into the RC cola cool aid and think his x's and o's are better and will work with this team better than the previous administrations.

I think the man has a track record that prooves he knows what he is doing and that Indianna fell apart after he left so that in and of itself shows his value. He has the respect of Artest despite the history there and that tells me he could be the missing piece we need. Avery was busy throwing the whole team under the bus last season and we need a coach that earns his players respect.

With a PG like Kidd RC will be like a kid in a candy store designing plays to work with Kidds strengths and with all the big athletic young wings we added this team will be ready to run and slash. Dirk will be impossible to double team if Kidd can keep the centers involved and or we get an improved Bass that can score inside more and play defense at a higher level.

Dirk will step it up in his game going back to his strengths instead of trying to be Tim Duncan meaning he will have the green light from downtown and that will open it up inside for Bass and the driving cutting younger slashers we just added. Hopefully RC gets it in Greens head that he is on this team to be a slasher and not a 3 point shooter.

Realmavsman · Post #19 » by **Realmavsman** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:31 pm

JES12 wrote:
your_dallas_mavericks wrote:Kidd + Mavs + Training Camp + Carlisle - Avery = a much better Mavs team.

Kidd - Harris + Mavs + Training Camp + Carlisle - Avery = 1st round exit again

While I agree with this I think this is also true:

Harris + Mavs + Training Camp + Carlisle - Avery = 1st round exit again

I know you love Harris and all but I don't think we were going any farther with Harris and without Jason Kidd. That is why I am in favor of doing something more than resigning Diop and signing Gerald Green and a bunch of spares.

Carlisle is not THAT good.

myconsumerclub · Post #20 » by **myconsumerclub** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:52 pm

Bass improves in all phases of his game if not traded for the elusive SG we need +1
Kidd has whole season with training camp to work on plays +1
New coach that doesn't throw team under bus +1
Howard gets head back in game and returns to all star status +1
Coach let's Dirk play like Dirk and not Tim Duncan +1
Addition by subtraction George is likely gone now how about Stack and Jones +1
Someone out of Rat Rhodes Singleton Wright Green and Foster is bound to step up and contribute +1

We aren't done yet Fazekas or another big like Kristic could be targeted to be a 4/5 backup that gives us something Bass Dampier and Diop don't give us and that is a player that isn't a liability when on the court either defensively or offensively speaking. With noise out of Atlanta in regards to possibly doing a S&T for Josh that could speed up the negotiation process that SAC is doing to move Artest our way and do so without including Howard. They need to understand the ticking time bomb that Artest is and look to move that hot potato before it goes off.