Golden Era ATL write-ups *Wilt/Oscar regions

[tsherkin]

I cast my vote for the Warriors (Myth), the Rockets (TMACFORMVP) and for Warspite's Flint Tropics.

[Myth_Breaker]

A few quick remarks (may add more later)

1. You couldn’t be more wrong about Coop’s defense vs. small, quick guards and no citing his defensive awards can change that (Ben Wallace has 4 DPOYs – perhaps he would be even better against Price? ). If Coop was able to successfully contain Stockton in the 1988 WCF you mentioned, he wouldn’t let this most important Jazz guard and Top-2 most important player lead his team to 7-game battle vs. favorites in powerful Showtime Lakers (by mentioning this series you really shot yourself in the foot). If Michael was able to contain Isiah, the latter wouldn’t get 43 points with all-time record 25 pts in one quarter in famous Game 6 of the 1988 Finals!). And if Coop was able to contain Price, he wouldn’t let him shoot mind-blowing… .557 from the field and .615 from 3-point line in their head-to-head matchups! Looks like his presence even helps Mark’s game, don’t you think?

One thing I didn’t mention before: Coop (who never played PG except limited spot minutes, and you're making him start there!) wasn’t used to play starter minutes: his effectiveness was falling down when was forced to play 33-35 mpg. And you made him your starter... (though we don't know about his projected PT since you didn't provide minutes breakdown).

While, as I’ve already posted, putting Michael in the starting lineup forces Kobe to be your main playmaker. Main playmaker and main scoring threat plus someone forced to guard Erving at least at times since Battier’s going to be completely helpless against Doctor J? Too heavy of a burden even for Kobe.

2.If by having “only 2 true 3-point shooters” in Price and Glen Rice you meant I have 2 long-range bombers better than any of your players (well above .400 from 3-point line in their combined reference years), it’s true. If you meant something else, it’s completely false. Anyway, you have the nerve talking about range of your bigs? Rasheed – who’s not Rice, but still very good 3-point shooter, one of the best ever among bigmen - has much better range than any of them, even Sabonis! With him and Price in starting 5 and Glenn and to lesser extent TP off the bench I obviously have enough shooters to surround Erving and Mourning. While – though it doesn’t matter much – you’re also overestimating Zo’s Heat prowess from 3-point line. All those guys were clearly inferior snipers to Price and Rice (nice rhyme, isn’t it? ), while Lenard and Majerle didn’t even really play together half the time due to injuries.

3. I don’t know if you fully realize what “X being rich man’s Y” means. Of course that Daugherty was better than Brad Miller, nobody disputes this notion – what doesn’t change the fact that they are similar players, both sharing question marks as to their strength, athleticism, shotblocking, rebounding and overall defense. And probably the only people who ever called Daugherty “very good” defender were TrueLA back then and you now: sorry, but opinions of GMs praising their own guys do not count if not supported by opinions of others and objective evidence.

4. Excuse me, how good defender Price must be to contain Coop and his whopping 6,0 ppg which the latter got against Mark in their head-to-head matchups? The answer is: Price may doesn’t care much about Coop’s occasional 3s and instead perform help defense on Kobe – what is much better solution anyway. BTW, I must withdraw from my earlier statement: you’re not playing 4 on 5 in offense. You are playing 3 on 5, what makes my task so much easier – for example, analogically my SFs may leave your next weak offensive link in Battier and help double Barkley when needed!

5. Barkley could’ve been in awe of Erving and Moses when was a rookie playing next to them. But in your reference period he already developed his bad habits as to neglecting practice, provoking conflicts with teammates and disregarding what his coaches were saying (though I’ll give you he was then less fat than later ). If you try to excuse Chuck by saying he felt frustrated due to being surrounded by crappy teammates, he treated in such way also Westphal in Phoenix instead of taking Garnett-like professional approach when finally having a chance to lead his team to a title! And I’m sorry, but Barkley’s conflicts with Pippen show that championship rings cannot make him respectful towards his teammates at all. Kobe + Chuck=disaster waiting to happen, simple as that.

6. Dennis Johnson is good enough on his own to force Kobe into hard shots and make his efficiency drop; even prime Bowen was able to do the same and DJ is more respected defender than Bruce! If you add help defense from guys like Price and Doctor himself, you can easily envision 7-22 night from Bryant. While Barkley – always difficult matchup to guard – may get his points, I don’t negate this. But it’s still not enough, and by far: 1-man teams can’t do anything in uber-talented all-time leagues. And your starting 5 is almost 1-man team in offense, with Coop and Battier both being <10-ppg players, what allows me to double-team and contain Kobe, and only Barkley, aided by Daugherty modest 15 or so ppg, really getting his points!

In summary, look like my respectable opponent, while presenting some interesting thoughts in Pacers’ writeup, didn’t manage to refute my points about general flaws of his team and in particular Warriors being very bad matchup for him. Before you vote, think about it once more: Dennis Johnson on Kobe and Rasheed/Mourning on Barkley from one side and Battier on Erving and Daugherty on Mourning from another. Which superstar combo is bound to be more productive and efficient as a result of these matchups, so favourable for GSW: of course mine!

[Sharpie]

Rockets, Warriors, Tropics

[jeahwe]

1.You couldn’t be more wrong about Coop’s defense vs. small, quick guards and no citing his defensive awards can change that (Ben Wallace has 4 DPOYs – perhaps he would be even better against Price? ). If Coop was able to successfully contain Stockton in the 1988 WCF you mentioned, he wouldn’t let this most important Jazz guard and Top-2 most important player lead his team to 7-game battle vs. favorites in powerful Showtime Lakers (by mentioning this series you really shot yourself in the foot). If Michael was able to contain Isiah, the latter wouldn’t get 43 points with all-time record 25 pts in one quarter in famous Game 6 of the 1988 Finals!).

Myth, was Stockton the only player in 1998 Utah? Was Ben Wallace a GUARD? So stop talking things like that.
Series between LAL and Jazz go to 7 games because Jazz as a team was so good and there played some other guys, for example Karl Malone, maybe you hear something about him
Ben Wallace is PF/C, Cooper was a guard. Difference is obvious. And, what the most important, Cooper was a guard who won DPOT. If you think that any guard would won that award if he couldn't defend against small guards... well, good luck ;]

One thing I didn’t mention before: Coop wasn’t used to play starter minutes: his effectiveness was falling down when was forced to play 33-35 mpg. And you made him your starter…

You couldn't be more wrong. In seasons I using Cooper played 27 minutes per game in regular (45.2/43.8%FG, 38.7/38.5% 3pts, 9.2/10.5 ppg) and 30 mpg in playoffs when his production was better! (47.0/48.4%FG, 46.3/48.6% 3pts, 9.7/13.0 ppg)

While, as I’ve already posted, putting Michael in the starting lineup forces Kobe to be your main playmaker.

Not true. First, triangle don't need classic playmaker. Second, if something goes wrong with Cooper I have Porter and Armstrong.

2.If by having “only 2 true 3-point shooters” in Price and Glen Rice you meant I have 2 long-range bombers better than any of your players (well above .400 from 3-point line in their combined reference years), it’s true.

The point is - will you be playing both of them in the same time? If yes, your permiter would look like that: Pierce - Dr J - Rice, so who would defend Kobe? If not, you still have only one true three point shooter on the floor at the time.

I obviously have enough shooters to surround Erving and Mourning. While – though it doesn’t matter much – you’re also overestimating Zo’s Heat prowess from 3-point line. All those guys were clearly inferior snipers to Price and Rice (nice rhyme, isn’t it? ), while Lenard and Majerle didn’t even really play together half the time due to injuries.

All this guys were at the same time on the floor with the Zo. Rice and Price wouldn't be or you would have defensive problems.

4.Excuse me, how good defender Price must be to contain Coop and his whopping 6,0 ppg which the latter got against Mark in their head-to-head matchups?

6 ppg? Coop averaged 10ppg in regular and above 10 in playoffs. If you leave him open, he will hurt you.

And I’m sorry, but Barkley’s conflicts with Pippen show that championship rings cannot make him respectful towards his teammates at all. Kobe + Chuck=disaster waiting to happen, simple as that.

Conflicts with Pippen happenes when Chuck already know that he wouldn't win the ring. Besides, Pippen never was “mentally strong”, “cold blood killer”. Kobe is, and it is always respected.
Conflict with KJ? Well, they advanced to the finals and challenged Bulls, right? So what's the problem? Generally I think that something like that is overrated. Look at Bulls, how many conflict was in that team (for example between Jordan and Cartwright) and how many they won.

6. Dennis Johnson is good enough on his own to force Kobe into hard shots and make his efficiency drop; even prime Bowen was able to do the same and DJ is more respected defender than Bruce! If you add help defense from guys like Price and Doctor himself, you can easily envision 7-22 night from Bryant.

Well, My Kobe is Kobe '07/'08, not younger and immature Kobe. My Kobe shoot above 50%FG against Spurs, when Popovich admit that they defensively do everything what they want to do.

While Barkley – always difficult matchup to guard – may get his points, I don’t negate this. But it’s still not enough, and by far: 1-man teams can’t do anything in uber-talented all-time leagues. And your starting 5 is almost 1-man team in offense, with Coop and Battier both being <10-ppg players, what allows me to double-team and contain Kobe, and only Barkley, aided by Daugherty modest 15 or so ppg, really getting his points!

Nice Myth, very nice - Daugherty 15 ppg scorer? C'moon, be fair. He scored +20 ppg on 57%FG in years I using him. You also need to remember that we have only 90 FGA per team. So there's no need to have more than 3 scorers in your S5. If nothing change we played only one ball at the time

In summary, look like my respectable opponent, while presenting some interesting thoughts in Pacers’ writeup, didn’t manage to refute my points about general flaws of his team and in particular Warriors being very bad matchup for him. Before you vote, think about it once more: Dennis Johnson on Kobe and Rasheed/Mourning on Barkley from one side and Battier on Erving and Daugherty on Mourning from another. Which superstar combo is bound to be more productive and efficient as a result of these matchups, so favourable for GSW: of course mine!

Ok
so before you vote thing about that: how you stop Kobe (closest thing to MJ) + Barkley (one of the most efficient players in history - +60%TS on +25 ppg) duo, when they are supported by shooters and defender like Cooper and Battier. Plus of course Daugherty as third option, center with range, who scored +20ppg on 57%FG! Not to mention that on the bench I have Sabonis, DPOT Camby, super offensive Porter and another defensive specialists in Armstrong and Lucas.

[penbeast0]

The heck with waiting, I vote for San Antonio

Houston Rockets (TMACFORMVP) - 7 v. Toronto Raptors (Zong) - 2 -- Rockets move on
Golden State Warriors (Myth_breaker) - 6 v. Indiana Pacers (jeahwe) - 3
+ Wes votes for Warriors so they move on

Chicago Bulls (farm aid) - 0 v. San Antonio Spurs (tsherkin) - 1
Orlando Magic (T-Mac United) - 1 v. Flint Tropics (Warspite) - 8 -- Tropics move on

[Myth_Breaker]

I'd vote for Rockets and Tropics, but these series are already decided, so I don't know whether it makes sense to count my votes... still waiting for Bulls' and Spurs' writeups... maybe set a deadline to deliver them?

[tsherkin]

OK, I'm going to put up the skeleton of a write-up here, just to get the basic idea out. I will be adding year-specific stats and more detail later this evening after I get home but this will give a preliminary idea of the basic nature of my squad.

C Shaquille O'neal
PF Dennis Rodman
SF Alex English
SG Vince Carter
PG Penny Hardaway

That's my starting lineup, with a bench of Elvin Hayes, Xavier McDaniel, Brent Barry, Hersey Hawkins and Mookie Blaylock.

Farm Raid is running:

C Ben Wallace
PF Karl Malone
SF Grant Hill
SG Mitch Richmond
PG Alvin Robertson

His Bench

Bill Cartwright
Anthony Mason
Peja Stojakovic
Gilbert Arenas
Mark Jackson


General Notes

This is a triangle team; I've got a really potent defender and rebounder at the 4 in Dennis Rodman; he simulates the role of Horace Grant, his own role on the 96-98 title teams, AC Green, etc. He gets on the power forward (or sometimes the small forward) and makes his life a miserable, living Hell while also vacuuming the glass.

Shaq is the primary offensive threat, a thoroughly dominant power-post scorer who, working within the triangle, is exceedingly difficult to deny while he fouls out your frontcourt and scores on 57-60% of his buckets (or more, as was the case with Shaq against Ben Wallace in the four games they played head-to-head in the 99-00 and 00-01 seasons).

Penny is the primary ball-handler, with English attacking in transition and from triple-threat in the various wing-entry options in the triangle. VC gets a lot of elbow attack action, shots off of ball reversal and some low post isolations because of his size (6'7, 210, he's about the size of the Old Bull Jordan, only more athletic and a way better shooter).

Penny is a capable three-point threat at this stage, not a stunner but not a guy you want to leave open either, very much like Pippen (and filling the same primary distributor role). Off the bench, the shooting is obviously phenomenal with Barry, Blaylock and Hawkins coming in to make things extremely unpleasant for people trying to double off of anyone else. I can put out a second-string lineup with Mookie and Hawkins playing a small but defensively dangerous backcourt, Brent Barry at the 3 and then Rodman and Shaq (or McDaniel and Hayes) and have three exceedingly dangerous three-point snipers out there sucking defenders away from the paint.

In principle, this team functions like the early three-peat Bulls or the modern Lakers; attack in transition where possible while maintaining defensive position, then run the triangle in the halfcourt to play up the strengths of Shaq and the shooters, as well as VC and Penny. English is the third option when Vince and Shaq are on the floor.

By Position

Center

4x DPOY or not, Shaq owned Ben Wallace in the 99-00 and 00-01 seasons. I will post the embarassing stats later this evening but it's not pretty and Shaq shot over 60% each time, scoring prolifically. Furthermore, even past his prime and playing the defensive-oriented Pistons in 03-04, he still scored in high volume and high efficiency against Wallace.

Expect Shaq to eradicate what dignity Wallace has with the kind of scoring support he has on this squad, hammering away in the post until Ben is on the bench with foul trouble or straight-up ejected from the game. Wallace's main attributes are rebounding (which will not favor him in this lineup on account of Shaq, Rodman and the rebounding strength of Penny and English) and shot-blocking, which will remain a minor concern. He will not be sufficient to deter this offense, however, since he is not capable of covering the entire floor and the triangle leaves this team spaced out too well for him to actively dominate my squad with the threat of a contested shot from a 6'7 center with long arms and a big 'fro.

I am utterly unconcerned about even a prime Bill Cartwright, who was never anything special on the glass or as a shot-blocker. He had a couple of seasons as an efficient 20 ppg scorer but he's not terribly mobile, nor is he much capable of doing anything to Shaq despite being around the same height and very strong. Cartwright is going to get tossed around. Against Hayes, he's got something like a 5-inch height advantage but then Hayes had a mid-range jumper that he could use to drag Cartwright away from the rim... or I could simply go to any of my many other dangerous scoring weapons.

Power Forward

Rodman wins the rebounding battle; he's done so historically. Malone fared poorly in '97 but bounced back hard in '98 (and in a situation where he got LESS support), though he was limited in volume and explosive scoring output by Rodman's tenacious efforts on defense. I'm going to say I'm pretty comfortable expecting 25 ppg on 50% from the Mailman if I leave him in straight-up isolation coverage with Rodman...

But I'm not. My center rotation includes two dangerous shot-blockers to help cover and Wallace isn't a threat to do anything offensively outside of 8 feet on a putback jam or a dump pass, so Shaq is totally free to roam and wreak havoc in the lane (Hayes, too). I can cheat off of Grant Hill because in the period used (and really, until he came to Phoenix) he was about as good from downtown as is Wade, which is not very flattering. That means I can suck the defense in on Malone if he tries to post up and I can afford to rotate over to cover him if he pops on the screen... and I have a big point guard, so my guard can contest his jumper a lot better than a conventional point guard might do as well, which helps limit Malone's ability to be a prolific volume scorer.

Anthony Mason versus Xavier McDaniel... one-time teammates, neither with any range, both undersized... McDaniel was a considerably better scorer as he proved in Seattle and a nasty defender. Mason is a weak perimeter shooter, though a good option as a secondary or tertiary ball-handler as he proved in a point forward role for the Knicks. He's a good roleplayer, a good 6th man type but he's not going to really affect my team. If I'm especially worried about him, I put McDaniel in and keep Mason busy trying to bull around with another bull-strong forward of similar size with a nasty post game... and Mason is suddenly too busy to do much of anything but watch my perimeter shooters and slashers feast.

Small Forward

Grant Hill versus the 1980s leading scorer. Hill's more athletic, a better rebounder and a true point forward as opposed to 'merely' a very good passer for his position. English is quite talented and the better scorer but he's also being used as my third option, so his major ability isn't so important. The rebounding battle is mostly a wash and the passing battle isn't important to me that much; someone's going to be the primary ball-handler and since it isn't Robertson or Richmond, it's Hill. I expect to attack him in the backcourt and at mid-court with a lot of traps because the other guards aren't wonderful ball-handlers. Robertson's OK, a good passer when he put his mind to it and Mitch wasn't likely to turn it over but neither was super-creative against a press or a trapping defense, so we'll try to force some turnovers that way because of the weak backcourt.

Brent Barry and Peja Stojakovic basically cancel each other out as reserves, except that while they are comparable shooters, Brent Barry is a much better passer who used to play a lot of point guard for the Sonics and he has more balls than does Peja, who likes to fail in pressure-packed environments like crunch time and the playoffs. Realistically, since both are there on the floor to spread it open, both do a reasonably adequate job but Peja is actually less athletic and worse on defense than Barry, who functions at an acceptable (if mediocre) level within the Spurs' system. This is a matchup issue, I don't expect Barry to be my bench scoring spark, just to provide some minutes to give English a rest while opening the floor up with another long-range sniper.

Shooting Guard

Vince and Mitch Richmond... comparable shooters, especially in the years listed as I'll show (Vince shot 40%+ both years) but Vince is way more athletic, way more dangerous a slasher and had the strength to handle Richmond's size (he was a muscular, stocky 6'5 dude but Vince was big himself).

This is definitely in my favor and even moreso with a strong defensive frontcourt backing him up on the defensive end. On the offensive end, the triangle affords him all the kinds of looks he wants: mid-range jumpers, threes from the flower spot on the weakside wing, shots off of side-post curls, pick-and-pops , all kinds of slashing action from the pinch post and the strongside wing as well as low-post isolations. Vince will get looks from all of his favorite spots and will regularly attack Richmond from triple-threat, where his massively explosive first step and hops will make it basically impossible for Richmond to guard him.

Of Richmond, Jordan once said that he was the guy who troubled him most defensively, because Richmond made Jordan himself work on defense. Vince will have to work on D but unlike Jordan, he'll be backed by Rodman/McDaniel and Shaq/Hayes, so he can afford to coast just a little with such defensive talent helping him out. Sometimes, I'll run Shaq, Rodman and McDaniel at the same time (Rodman having showed himself capable of defending 3s on account of being 6'8 and staggeringly athletic), just to be a real pest on defense and that will disrupt Farm Raid's perimeter guys quite effectively. I can switch off defenders if I feel like it and bully Ritchmond with bigger guys, too, since I'm prepared to allow Ritchmond to get by a player like X and run into the teeth of my shot-blockers (or just shade him into the shot-blockers, either way).

Arenas is a dynamic force off the bench but prone to bad shot selection and I'm throwing a potent defensive guard of comparable size at him. Hersey Hawkins fits seamlessly into this team, having subjugated his own offense on the dominant Seattle teams of the mid 90s. I'm not worried about Arenas even a little bit, since he doesn't have the time-on-court to really impact the game much and he'll be facing outstanding shot-blocking and a nasty man-on defender.

Point Guard

Former DPOY or not, Robertson is going to have trouble with Penny's size and athleticism, especially since he won't be getting a lot of help and the primary function Hardaway will be serving is giving up the ball anyway. Robertson was a talented, versatile player but Penny's going to have a lot of help getting the ball over the timeline and then Robertson is 4 inches too short to do much about blocking Penny's visual link to his passing lanes... and since it's easy to avoid the traps with three effective ball-handlers on the floor, Penny can get to his spots for entry into the triangle easily. Since there are so many of those and I can enter the offense without using the dominant ball-handler at all, Robertson's major strength (his defense) is effectively nullified.

I can enter the offense through any of the 5 players on the floor in any of a large variety of initial alignments with continuity to the rest of the offense and quick-hitting options to take advantage of the breakdowns in the defense, so Robertson doesn't pose much of a threat.

Summary

My guns are too good and there are too many of them. I'm too big, too much better defensively and my depth counters his depth extremely well. The Spurs combine versatility with some of the best power offense and outside shooting you can find.

(Again, I'll be amending this with statistical support and a reiteration of the years I'm using for each player later this evening)

[WesWesley]

Vote: Rockets, Warriors, Tropics.

[Farm Raid]

Da Bulls:
C Ben Wallace

Code: Select all

YEAR    FGM FGA FG% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK PPG
2001-02 3.2 6.0 .531 4.0 9.0 13.0 1.4 1.7 3.5 7.6
2002-03  2.9 6.0 .481 4.0 11.4 15.4 1.6 1.4 3.2 6.9

PF Karl Malone

Code: Select all

YEAR    PER FG% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK PPG
1996-97 28.9 .550 2.4 7.5 9.9 4.5 1.4 0.6 27.4
1997-98 27.9 .530 2.3 8.0 10.3 3.9 1.2 0.9 27.0

SF Grant Hill

Code: Select all

YEAR    PER FGM FGA FG% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK  PPG
1995-96 20.9 7.1 15.3 .462 1.6 8.2 9.8 6.9 1.3 0.6 20.2
1996-97 25.5 7.8 15.7 .496 1.5 7.5 9.0 7.3 1.8 0.6 21.4

SG Mitch Richmond

Code: Select all

1992-93 8.2 17.4 .474 0.4 3.0 3.4 4.9 1.2 0.2 21.9
1993-94 8.1 18.3 .445 0.9 2.8 3.7 4.0 1.3 0.2 23.4

PG Alvin Robertson

Code: Select all

YEAR   PER  FGM FGA FG% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK PPG
1985-86 19.5 6.9 13.3 .514 2.2 4.0 6.3 5.5 3.7 0.5 17.0
1986-87 18.5 7.3 15.6 .466 2.3 2.9 5.2 5.2 3.2 0.4 17.7

Bench
Bill Cartwright

Code: Select all

YEAR  PER FGM FGA FG% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK PPG
79-80 8.1 17.9 14.8 .547 5.5 6.9 .797 2.4 6.5 8.9 2.0 0.6 1.2 21.7
80-81 7.5 18.4 13.6 .554 5.0 6.3 .788 2.0 5.5 7.5 1.4 0.6 1.0 20.1

Anthony Mason

Code: Select all

YEAR   PER FGM FGA FG% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK PPG
1996-97 15.8 5.9 11.3 .525  2.5 8.8 11.4 5.7 1.0 0.5 16.2
1997-98 18.9 4.8 9.4 .509 2.2 8.0 10.2 4.2 0.8 0.2 12.8

Peja Stojakovic

Code: Select all

YEAR   PER FGM FGA FG% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK PPG
2002-03 19.6 6.9 14.4 .481 0.8 4.7 5.5 2.0 1.0 0.1 19.2
2003-04 21.8 8.2 17.1 .480 1.1 5.1 6.3 2.1 1.3 0.2 24.2

Gilbert Arenas

Code: Select all

YEAR   PER FGM FGA FG% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK PPG
05-06 23.8 9.3 9.3 20.9 .447 0.7 2.8 3.5 6.1 2.0 0.3 29.3
06-07 24.0 8.7 8.7 20.9 .418 0.8 3.7 4.6 6.0 1.9 0.2 28.4

Mark Jackson

Code: Select all

YEAR   PER FGM FGA FG% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK PPG
87-88  15.7 5.3 12.4 .432 1.5 3.4 4.8 10.6 2.5 0.1 13.6
88-89  18.3 6.7 14.2 .467 1.5 3.3 4.7 8.6 1.9 0.1 16.9

The two 'themes', as it were, to this Chicago Bulls team are it's varying ways in which to run the offense and it's tenacious team defense. Each team in this tournament will have a strong inside and outside scoring presence with excellent options for offense deep into the bench. No team is going to especially out-do another in this respect. However, the Bulls will primarily use Grant Hill as a point forward to control the offense with Alvin Robertson and Mitch Richmond (especially) enjoying playing off the ball on offense.

If a team is able to play particularly well on Hill, stifling his means to run an offense, the Bulls can easily look to their bench to have Mark Jackson run the show, and if a traditional point guard is found to be ineffective, the team can easily switch into having Gilbert Arenas run the show as a scoring, ball-dominant, combo guard with Peja Stojakovic and Richmond benefiting from the drive. Richmond being one of the few players to average 21 points or more for their first ten seasons, is truly one of the great scorers in this era- as already mentioned, Michael Jordan called him the toughest player he ever had to defend: "There really are no weaknesses in his game. He can drive to the hoop as well as take the outside jump shot. He reminds me a lot of me in his overall offensive display."

Of course, this all goes with mentioning at all Karl Malone's excellent offensive game down low, perhaps the best offensive PF in this tournament. If Hill's approach to getting the Mailman easy buckets isn't working, Jackson's should, and if for some reason neither can, Arenas' will. To put it simply, the Bulls have not too many options on offense- every team has that- but too many different ways in which to run an offense to ever be consistently slowed.

On defense, I believe my squad to be among the best. Ben Wallace and Karl Malone anchoring the paint is just about as good as you can get in this league, both of them All-D first team in the years they're playing here, Big Ben being a two-time DPOY. Hill's team defense is certainly better than average and teamed with Alvin Robertson (All-D and DPOY one year) and Mitch Richmond's solid man-to-man D he should have little problem defending 3's consistently.

The bench brings the aforementioned Stojakovic, a legit MVP candidate in the years chosen and one of the best volume 3-point shooters of all-time. While it's true that he sometimes didn't play to his potential in the playoffs, he was also the best or second best player on those teams and was carrying the burden of an increased defensive pressure. Neither of those facts will be issues on this team, coming off the bench.

Bill Cartwright brings the height needed defend the big boys when Wallace is resting, while compensating for his (Wallace's) offensive shortcomings. Anyone who saw Cartwright bang with Ewing, Parish, KAJ, Olajuwon, Robinson, and yes, Shaq, knows that he defense- and his elbows- were intimidating and game changing.

Anthony Mason's point forward skills will honestly not be utiltized too much on this team- we don't need it- but his superior ball-handling skills for an intimidating 3-4 will be used when finding the open man in the triangle. His enforcer attitude and reputation is where he really shines, and he won't be one to back down from the other bad boys in the tournament, like Charles Oakley, Bill Laimbeer or...Dennis Rodman.

Mark Jackson and Gilbert Arenas can be mentioned collectively, because they're basically two sides of the same coin. Jackson bring a traditional, tough-Ded PG into the game when needed and Arenas will bring a free-wheeling, very high-scoring playmaker to the table. Who gets in when will be dependant on matchups, but generally speaking a 10 apg or a nearly 30 ppg guy on your bench can find a place to get in and to be extremely effective.

On to the matchup at hand...

WORK IN PROGRESS.

Should be down in an hour or two.

[TMACFORMVP]

I'm just going to cast my vote now; Vote: tsherkin

[Baller 24]

tsherkin gets my vote as well.

[Myth_Breaker]

And mine (somehow I don't like Mailman without natural PG feeding him the ball).

[Kosta]

Vote: Spurs

[Farm Raid]

Guess there's no reason to actually post a game breakdown.

[TrueLAfan]

Vote: tsherkin

[Myth_Breaker]

Golden State Warriors
(GM - Myth_Breaker)

I. GENERAL WRITEUP
(may add more later)

ROSTER

STARTERS
(may be changed depending on matchups)

PG - Mark Price
(6-0, 170 lbs)

1991/92 season
17,3 ppg (.488/.387/.947)/2,4 rpg/7,4 apg/1,3 spg/0,2 bpg in 29,7 mpg. 57-25 team record.
All-NBA Third Team, All-Star, 7th in MVP voting. Led the NBA in FT percentage.
1992/93 season
18,2 ppg (.484/.416/.948)/2,7 rpg/8,0 apg/1,2 spg/0,1 bpg in 31,7 mpg. 54-28 team record.
All-NBA First Team, All-Star, 8th in MVP voting. Led the NBA in FT percentage.

SG - Dennis Johnson
(6-4, 200 lbs)

1979/80 season
19,0 ppg (.422/.207/.780)/5,1 rpg/4,1 apg/1,8 spg/1,0 bpg in 36,3 mpg. 56-26 team record.
All-NBA Second Team, All-Star, All-Defensive First Team, 5th in MVP voting.
1980/81 season
18,8 ppg (.436/.216/.820)/4,6 rpg/3,7 apg/1,7 spg/0,8 bpg in 33,1 mpg. 57-25 team record.
All-NBA First Team, All-Star, All-Defensive First Team, 8th in MVP voting.

SF - Julius Erving
(6-7, 210 lbs)

1979/80 season
26,9 ppg (.519/.200/.787)/7,4 rpg/4,6 apg/2,2 spg/1,8 bpg in 36,1 mpg. 59-23 team record.
All-NBA First Team, All-Star, 2nd in MVP voting.
1980/81 season
24,6 ppg (.521/.222/.787)/8,0 rpg/4,4 apg/2,1 spg/1,8 bpg in 35,0 mpg. 62-20 team record.
All-NBA First Team, All-Star, Season MVP.

PF - Rasheed Wallace
(6-11, 230 lbs)

2000/01 season
19,2 ppg (.501/.321/.766)/7,8 rpg/2,8 apg/1,2 spg/1,8 bpg in 38,2 mpg. 50-32 team record.
NBA All-Star.
2001/02 season
19,3 ppg (.469/.360/.734)/8,2 rpg/1,9 apg/1,3 spg/1,3 bpg in 37,5 mpg. 49-33 team record.

C - Alonzo Mourning
(6-10, 261 lbs)

1998/99 season
20,1 ppg (.511/.652)/11,0 rpg/1,6 apg/0,7 spg/3,9 bpg in 38,1 mpg. 33-17 team record.
All-NBA First Team, All-Defensive First Team, Defensive Player of the Year, 2nd in MVP voting. Led the NBA in blocks and blocks per game.
1999/2000 season
21,7 ppg (.551/.711)/9,5 rpg/1,6 apg/0,5 spg/3,7 bpg in 34,8 mpg. 52-30 team record.
All-NBA Second Team, All-Star, All-Defensive First Team, Defensive Player of the Year, 3rd in MVP voting. Led the NBA in blocks and blocks per game.

BENCH

- PG Tony Parker
(6-2, 180 lbs)

2005/2006 season
18,9 ppg (.548/.306/.707)/3,3 rpg/5,8 apg/1,0 spg/0,1 bpg in 33,9 mpg. 63-19 team record.
NBA All-Star, 9th in MVP voting.
2006/2007 season
18,6 ppg (.520/.395/.783)/3,2 rpg/5,5 apg/1,1 spg/0,1 bpg in 32,5 mpg. 58-24 team record.
NBA All-Star, 15th in MVP voting, Finals MVP.

- G Eric Snow
(6-3, 190 lbs)

2001/2002 season
12,1 ppg (.442/.111/.806)/3,6 rpg/6,6 apg/1,6 spg/0,1 bpg in 36,5 mpg. 43-39 team record.
2002/2003 season
12,9 ppg (.452/.219/.858)/3,7 rpg/6,6 apg/1,6 spg/0,1 bpg in 37,9 mpg. 48-34 team record.
All-Defensive Second Team.

- SF/SG Glen Rice
(6-8, 228 lbs)

1996/97 season
26,8 ppg (.477/.470/.867)/4,0 rpg/2,0 apg/0,9 spg/0,3 bpg in 42,6 mpg. 54-28 team record.
All-NBA Second Team, NBA All-Star, All-Star Game MVP, 5th in MVP voting. Led the NBA in 3P percentage and minutes played.
1997/98 season
22,3 ppg (.457/.433/.849)/4,3 rpg/2,2 apg/0,9 spg/0,3 bpg in 40,2 mpg. 51-31 team record.
All-NBA Third Team, NBA All-Star, 11th in MVP voting.

- PF Kermit Washington
(6-8, 230 lbs - I don't have data about him measured in shoes and with updated college weight, should be about 6-9, 245 lbs then)

1979/80 season
13,4 ppg (.553/.642)/10,5 rpg/2,1 apg/0,9 spg/1,6 bpg in 33,2 mpg. 38-44 team record.
NBA All-Star, All-Defensive Second Team.
1980/81 season
11,4 ppg (.569/.628)/9,4 rpg/2,0 apg/1,2 spg/1,2 bpg in 29,0 mpg. 45-37 team record.
All-Defensive Second Team.

- PF/C Jermaine O'Neal
(6-11, 260 lbs)

2002/2003 season
20,8 ppg (.484/.731)/10,3 rpg/2,0 apg/0,9 spg/2,3 bpg in 37,2 mpg. 48-34 team record.
All-NBA Third Team, All-Star.
2003/2004 season
20,1 ppg (.434/.757)/10,0 rpg/2,1 apg/0,8 spg/2,6 bpg in 35,7 mpg. 61-21 team record.
All-NBA Second Team, All-Star, 3rd in MVP voting.

II. FIRST ROUND: GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS WIN OVER INDIANA PACERS 7-4 IN VOTES
(Congrats for brave fight, jeahwe!)

III. SECOND ROUND: GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS VS. HOUSTON ROCKETS
(may add more later, but IDK whether will have access to net during the weekend)

GENERAL COMMENTS

First I’d like to congratulate TMACFORMVP for assembling another great team. It’s sad that fate forces us to meet again already in 2nd round and one of us must end his journey here (of course it won’t be me! ). Rockets are a team without greater weaknesses, preferring halfcourt offense, with stifling defense, built around inside-outside superstar duo of swingman and 2-way big – all just like my Warriors, but Warriors happen to have more advantages in head-to-head matchups and I’m going to exploit all of them.

STARTING FIVES

PG – Mark Price vs. Isiah Thomas

The obvious advantage goes to Rockets, though a couple of factors work in favor of Price in this matchup. Namely, Isiah in his reference period, far before Bad Boys becoming a power, didn’t have any playoff experience to speak of (only once went past 1st round!) when compared to Price during his reference period. PG is a position where experience counts the most: how can you trust young Isiah to helm your squad and lead to success, especially in ultra-competitive environment of Golden Era League and vs. someone battle-tested against even Jordan’s Bulls in Price!
Second, Zeke is much inferior long-range shooter to Price: in fact, below-average one, with <.300 combined accuracy in his reference period. So he isn’t going to make us pay when defense collapses on T-Mac and Ewing: while if tries to penetrate, he’s going to meet Zo’s unstoppable wall!
Anyway, in this single matchup advantage: Rockets.

SG – Dennis Johnson vs. Tracy McGrady

T-Mac is a great offensive player, but rather prone to tough, physical defense (more than Jordan, LBJ or Kobe). When someone shoots .426 vs. Artest in his career, you know he’s vulnerable in such way, with 5-21, 6-19, 9-22 and 11-32 (and only one good game with 13-23) performances even in your carefully chosen reference period! Ditto with Tracy’s .414 efficiency against Bowen (you may attribute this drop also to Spurs overall excellent defense, but my team defense is even better ) with 7-21 and 15-36 failures and only one decent 12-26 game in the reference period (BTW, I’d love T-Mac to take 36 attempts against my squad: even 26 would be bad for your game-flow!). Dennis Johnson is even more renowned defender than Artest and BB (I’ll remind that Magic called him not only his best defender, but also the best perimeter defender he’s ever seen). You do the math: Tracy is still going to outproduce his direct rival, but on poor efficiency and not giving you enough to change the tide of our rivalry.
Plus we all know that McGrady never went to the 2nd round, what makes your starting backcourt VERY inexperienced compared to others.
Advantage: Rockets.

SF – Julius Erving vs. Bruce Bowen

You might say it’s reversal of our off-guard matchup, this time with Rockets defensive specialist on Warriors offensive force. With that difference that while Erving is probably even better offensive player than McGrady due to superior efficiency, Bowen is inferior defender to DJ (and obviously even to bigger extent worse overall player). Dr J in his career was guarded by the likes of Bobby Jones, Michael Cooper and Dennis Johnson: guy like BB (who must probably would be much less effective defender without Duncan protecting his back and excellent Spurs’ defensive system) isn’t going to frighten him. Of course, Bowen is still tough matchup: but I don’t expect Erving efficiency to drop below .500, considering he shot .520 in his reference period!
Huge advantage: Warriors.

PF – Rasheed Wallace vs. Charles Oakley

I’ve always shared sentiment felt by many NBA fans that Sheed is a talent at least on Dirk/Webber level, but frankly speaking rather on Duncan/KG level. He has arguably the most complete offensive arsenal among bigmen – legitimate 3-point range, midrange face-up game, back-to-basket moves, dunks, hooks, very good FT accuracy; he can do it all. He’s very good passer and even better defender, especially man-to-man, but also in help defense, averaging almost 3 blocks and steals combined in his reference period (I can attribute him missing All-Defensive nominations only to voters blaming him for off-court issues of Blazers team). Too bad Wallace utilized only like 60% of his talent. Too bad for Rockets and Oakley that it’s still more than 100% of Oak’s talent.  Because the only area where Charles has advantage in this matchup is rebounding (and being physical, though Sheed can be pretty physical himself, as shown while helping to guard even Shaq). Rasheed is worlds more prolific and versatile scorer (Oak – mainly garbage scorer), better passer, slightly better man-to-man defender and clearly better help defender. Also Sheed’s range will force Oakley from the basket, thus reducing his rebounding advantage, similarly as it was against Barkley. Advantage: Warriors.

C – Alonzo Mourning vs. Pat Ewing

Since reference periods of these 2 great Georgetown products are not close chronologically, the best way of assessing this duel would be comparing all their career matchups. I checked Zo and Pat head-to-head and was very pleasantly surprised by the results!

Ewing: 24,1 ppg on .535 TS%/10,8 rpg/1,6 apg/0,6 spg/2,5 bpg, 11 team wins

Mourning: 20,9 ppg on .535 TS%/10,5 rpg/1,3 apg/0,8 spg/3,7 bpg, 11 team wins!

(I omitted their playoff matchups, in which Alonzo produced better, since it would be unfair: Ewing was past his prime then)

It’s hard to find two more similar statlines, right? But if you add as well that:
a) Zo got his points on 15,7 FGA and 8,6 FTA, what is more promising ratio than Ewing’s 19,9 FGA and only 6,0 FTA: I’d rather have a center who leaves more shots to other great scorers of mine while drawing more fouls instead!
b) Zo also in such direct duels confirmed that is much more intimidating shotblocker than Ewing=his defensive impact on the whole opposing team is greater,
c) Zo on average had inferior supporting casts to Pat, so reaching a 11-11 tie in wins is doubly impressive in such situation,

- Then you can easily draw a conclusion that despite Ewing having longer and more prolific career than Alonzo, I have even slight advantage in this matchup of their primes! But I’ll understand if someone declares it a tie.

BENCH

Starks, Manu, Horry, Roundfield and Okafor vs. Tony Parker, Snow, Glen Rice, Kermit Washington and Jermaine.
I don’t trust Starks at PG at all: he’s only undersized SG with average ballhandling skills. Tony Parker, who’s one of the best penetrators in the league and also happens to be much quicker, is going to blow past Starks whenever he wants, while giving his team much more as to creating for others and controlling the pace.
Manu is going to outplay Snow (and help Starks with playmaking duties) for sure. But if prime Snow was able to make Kobe call Eric his best defender, the former will be certainly able to harass Gino, who’s only poor man’s Kobe, even more effectively.
Horry is nice player and known from his clutch long range shots, but think about it: Rice was able both to shoot far MORE 3s, with HIGHER accuracy, despite being MAIN target of opponents defenses, unlike Horry, who made a living out of open shots he received thanks to defense collapsing on Hakeem/Duncan/Shaq. So whom you trust more to shoot in every comparable situation: a star or a role player?
Again I didn’t assign any fixed PT to Kermit Washington, wanting to find more minutes for much superior player in Jermaine, but he will enter the action in 2 cases: if one of my bigs get into foul trouble/my opponents, mainly Oakley, become to physical. Then I unleash Kermit to answer with my own pair of enforcers Washington-Zo. They may even kill each other with Oakley, and the net result will be beneficial for the Warriors since for Houston’s starter I’ll give up a player who’s not even in my main rotation. As to Kermit-Roundfield theme, the latter is more well-rounded player. But is also more well-rounded player than Oakley and you chose Oak as a starter, so I guess I don’t have to explain you why Oakley/Washington-type enforcers may be more useful next to dominant bigs like Zo, Ewing or Jermaine. If Kermit finds, you may say you win his duel with Roundfield, but since they will be matched vs. each other only for few minutes, it doesn’t matter much in general scheme of the things.
Jermaine vs. Okafor. Prime JO, being MVP candidate, is easily the best overall player on both benches (the second one is also GSW player in Rice, TP and Manu fight for 3rd place, so Warriors have 3 out of 4 best bench players ). Since he wasn’t stopped even by combined defense of Sheed and Big Ben, won’t be denied also by players smaller than him and of lower profile in Roundfield and Okafor, who’s a guy with limited offense and without ANY playoff game under his belt!
You can see that my bench is clearly superior. Advantage: Warriors.

COMMENTS ON OFFENSE AND PASSING

Ewing/Oakley and Zo/Rasheed duos practically offset each other in the post. Erving’s production under any comparable circumstances would easily match T-Mac’s: remember than his 79-81 numbers were collected in stacked 60-wins teams, unlike McGrady’s weak .500 Orlando squads, where the latter had every opportunity to inflate his stats. But if we also take into account argument that DJ’s defense on McGrady is worth more than Bruce’s defense on Erving, Dr J will be even more productive, in which will be helped by his experience edge. Dennis Johnson next to Bowen, who’s offense limited to 3s from the corner (one season he achieved unusual feat of registering 3P% higher than FG% and FG% higher than FT%!) looks like Jordan, so another advantage goes to GSW. Only Isiah will have bigger impact in scoring than his Warriors counterpart: his clutchness perhaps can make up for Ewing’s traditional choking.
Did I already mention I have better 3P shooting? Price – best sniper in both starting 5s, Glen Rice – best on both benches, with Price and Rasheed my starters are overall more prolific in this regard, benches remain comparable; overall advantage goes to Golden State.
Passing: I have 4 guys tested as PG in real world, thus being able to run my offense in Price, DJ, Snow and Tony Parker. Rockets have only one in Isiah, so even taking into consideration help from Manu and T-Mac (good creators, but not real playmakers), Houston may have hard time with structuring their offense when Zeke’s on the bench, while I won’t face similar problems. In my starting 5 only Alonzo isn’t above-average passer, and still isn’t bad: on Ewing’s level or even little higher considering Pat’s bad hands. So edge in passing/creating goes to Warriors.

COMMENTS ON DEFENSE

In addition to what I’ve already said about head-to-head matchups: though not to the extent which happened in previous rounds, defensive matchups are more favorable for my team. I have the best post defender/most skilled shotblocker in Zo and the best perimeter defender in DJ. As mentioned, Dennis will contain T-Mac better than Bowen – Dr J. Since with BB Houston plays 4 on 5 in offense, Erving may help double Tracy: another reason to expect more 7-22 nights from the latter. So, while Rockets’ defense remains impressive, I feel like my guys will be more efficient in this matchup.

INTANGIBLES AND CONCLUSION

Rockets are properly constructed team, but what may cause chemistry problems for them is relationship between Isiah and Ewing. Remember what happened when Zeke played next to dominant scorer in Dantley? Didn’t like it at all and got Dantley traded in order to claim Pistons undoubtedly HIS team again. Or remember what happened when Don Nelson wanted Ewing to focus more on defense and give more shots to Anthony Mason? Boom! Ewing led players’ mutiny and the coach got fired. Whose team are the Rockets: Isiah’s or Ewing’s? Hard to say at first look (unlike in case of Warriors, where Dr J and Zo are clear-cut No. 1 and No. 2), so such situation may very likely lead to tensions which will make Rockets’ performance worse.

In summary, my superstars seem to be better fits to each other, including the best all-around player in this matchup in Erving and the best defensive player in Zo. I have more potent offense/passing, and defense which is overall comparable to Houston’s, but in this specific duel will be more effective due to favorable matchups. I have more prolific and versatile bench. I have edge in experience. I reckon I don’t need anything more to send Rockets home. GO WARRIORS!

[jeahwe]

Congrats Myth! See you next time