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Which team would you invest in?

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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#21 » by DowJones » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:39 pm

Did you really just call Pau Gasol a top-5 PF in the NBA?

But assuming he IS a top-5 PF in the NBA, how in the world did the "best player in the league" fail to even come close to beating the Celtics? There is a #23 in Cleveland that took his pathetic team..sans top-5 PF..to within a 1 minute stretch of beating the Boston Celtics. Oh, and he didn't have Phil Jackson, a great bench, Lamar Odom, or Derek Fisher either.
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#22 » by hermes » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:01 pm

DowJones wrote:Did you really just call Pau Gasol a top-5 PF in the NBA?

now your just putting words in my mouth

DowJones wrote:But assuming he IS a top-5 PF in the NBA, how in the world did the "best player in the league" fail to even come close to beating the Celtics? There is a #23 in Cleveland that took his pathetic team..sans top-5 PF..to within a 1 minute stretch of beating the Boston Celtics. Oh, and he didn't have Phil Jackson, a great bench, Lamar Odom, or Derek Fisher either.

the celtics couldn't win on the road then
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#23 » by milesfides » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:23 pm

DowJones wrote:Did you really just call Pau Gasol a top-5 PF in the NBA?


Aside from KG, Dirk, and Tim Duncan (if one still considers him a PF), who's clearly better?

But assuming he IS a top-5 PF in the NBA, how in the world did the "best player in the league" fail to even come close to beating the Celtics? There is a #23 in Cleveland that took his pathetic team..sans top-5 PF..to within a 1 minute stretch of beating the Boston Celtics. Oh, and he didn't have Phil Jackson, a great bench, Lamar Odom, or Derek Fisher either.


First of all, that's irrelevant to this thread and reeks of trolling. This discussion is about which team to invest in, not about what Lebron did. You want to whine about Kobe, do it somewhere else.

Second, that's just tremendously ignorant about the game of basketball - talking about individual players beating teams.

Players don't beat teams, teams beat teams.
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#24 » by DubaLakers » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:34 pm

DowJones wrote:I get on Portland sometimes, but they are the easy choice for the "investment".

The Lakers probably are the 1st or 2nd choice (Boston?) right now, but their main core is in the 28-30 range (when the season starts). That is what you ideally want for now, but if you talk about an "investment" you don't want to buy into something that is currently at its peak. When you look at Portland you have a bunch of VERY talented young players that have already proven themselves as good players. They were a solid team in the West last year with the team they had, now they add Bayless, Fernandez, and Oden. That is one talented group of players and all are young.

-Oden (20)
-Roy (23)
-Aldridge (23)
-Fernandez (23)
-Bayless (20)
-Outlaw (23)
-Webster (21)

Those are 7 players all under the age of 24 that can grow together.

Now on top of all that, Portland will have anywhere from $11million-$22million in cap-space to sign a max-contract player for next year. That number depends on what the cap is set at and whether or not Miles plays again. The number gets even larger if Portland decides to let Webster and/or Frye to walk for nothing instead of picking up the team-option. Now imagine Portland adding a big-time veteran free agent in 2009...a year in which not many teams will have cap-space.

And if you are hoping that Portland will simply fall apart because they won't pay all of these players what they are worth, well you clearly don't know who Paul Allen is.

I think Portland is set for the future and they are CLEARLY the answer to this question....even if L.A. is poised to be better over the next year or 2.


You just took my OP and made it better. +1...Nice job.
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#25 » by LLcoleJ » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:57 pm

DowJones wrote:Did you really just call Pau Gasol a top-5 PF in the NBA?

But assuming he IS a top-5 PF in the NBA, how in the world did the "best player in the league" fail to even come close to beating the Celtics? There is a #23 in Cleveland that took his pathetic team..sans top-5 PF..to within a 1 minute stretch of beating the Boston Celtics. Oh, and he didn't have Phil Jackson, a great bench, Lamar Odom, or Derek Fisher either.


Warned for trolling.
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#26 » by daddyfivestar » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:46 pm

damn Star, miles [edited] you with those Sasha/Webster stats.
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#27 » by DowJones » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:43 pm

Miles, the funny part about your post is that you claim that Portland's problem is that they only have one surefire All-Star. Please tell me how many surefire all-stars L.A. has. They have 1, Kobe Bryant. Pau Gasol made 1 All-Star game a few years ago and that is it for your roster. We all know Odom will never make an All-Star team. Maybe Bynum makes one some day, but he is in the same boat as Oden...talented young center that seems to have a history of injury problems.

Again, how is Pau Gasol a top-5 PF in the NBA when he can't even make consistent All-Star teams? But for the record, here are the better PF's....

-Dirk Nowitzki
-Carlos Boozer
-Tim Duncan
-Kevin Garnett
-Elton Brand
-Amare Stoudemire
-Al Jefferson
-David West

That list isn't including fringe guys like Rasheed Wallace and upside guys like Aldridge and Horford that are due for huge years.

I put Gasol a notch below guys like Dirk, Brand, Duncan, Amare, Garnett, etc.
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#28 » by hermes » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:59 pm

west- 1
jefferson - none
brand - 2
boozer 2

all star apperances
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#29 » by milesfides » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:19 pm

DowJones wrote:Miles, the funny part about your post is that you claim that Portland's problem is that they only have one surefire All-Star.


That's one of their problems - unproven talent. They also lack experience, which I emphatically said was a ubiquitous attribute on championship teams.

Please tell me how many surefire all-stars L.A. has. They have 1, Kobe Bryant. Pau Gasol made 1 All-Star game a few years ago and that is it for your roster.


Not quite, Gasol would have made the all-star team had he played for L.A. all season. He will next year. Gasol isn't a one-time and done all-star; he suffered from a few injuries and Memphis fell off the grid. Gasol clearly was an all-star caliber player since he came to the Grizzlies and put that team on his back en route to a remarkable turnaround for what was one of the worst teams in the league, taking them to the playoffs. Nobody can claim that on the Blazers, not even Roy.

We all know Odom will never make an All-Star team.


Speak for yourself; a lot of people believe it's a matter of Odom being in the right role in the right team. Many believe he is an all-star caliber player, one of the most talented players in the league. As far as comparing him with Portland's roster, aside from Roy, I don't think anybody on that team is more talented than Odom.

Maybe Bynum makes one some day, but he is in the same boat as Oden...talented young center that seems to have a history of injury problems.


Utterly ludicrous. They are NOT in the same boat at all. Oden has yet to play one damn game. The guy was injured before he even played ONE game. He sat out an entire season. Bynum played 3 seasons in the NBA. Oh, and he played 82 games - all 82 games, in 06-07.

Bynum put up 15, 11, 2+ blocks as a starting center in the NBA and he did it in less than 31 minutes. He's among the league's leaders in fg%, post scoring, rebounding rate, and blocking rate.

To put Oden in the same boat as Bynum is ridiculous. Why not put Joe Crawford in the same boat as Brandon Roy.

Again, how is Pau Gasol a top-5 PF in the NBA when he can't even make consistent All-Star teams? But for the record, here are the better PF's....

-Dirk Nowitzki
-Carlos Boozer
-Tim Duncan
-Kevin Garnett
-Elton Brand
-Amare Stoudemire
-Al Jefferson
-David West

That list isn't including fringe guys like Rasheed Wallace and upside guys like Aldridge and Horford that are due for huge years.


And you would be wrong, because you list several players who predominately play center and will continue to play center: Tim Duncan, Al Jefferson, Rasheed Wallace, and Al Horford. Also, Rasheed? The guy is clearly on the decline. Aldridge? What has Aldridge done or shown that he's even comparable to Gasol? Horford? Please.

Re: Stoudemire. He's a borderline PF, since he mostly played C until Shaq came on the Suns. Yet the Suns do frequently revert to Stoudemire back at C, namely because Shaq is in major decline and the Suns are still more comfortable and still play better with their small ball.

Of the remaining, Boozer and West are not clearly better than Gasol, if anything, Gasol vastly outplayed Boozer and Gasol's PER leaves West's in the dust.

Chris Bosh, whom you don't mention, will probably qualify more as a PF with the acquisition of Jermaine O'Neal, yet I think statistically and even game-wise, Bosh and Gasol are fairly even. Both are finesse players, both average around the same number of points and rebounds. Gasol is a more efficient scorer and much better shotblocker, Bosh has the advantage in positional defense.

Here's why Gasol is top 5:

KG and Dirk are clearly better than Gasol. Stoudemire, if considered a PF, is too. Elton Brand, if he can recover his full game, is marginally better than Gasol.

I put Gasol a notch below guys like Dirk, Brand, Duncan, Amare, Garnett, etc.


That's nice, you can think whatever you want, but aside from your personal opinion, statistically, whether it's through PER rankings, realgm rankings, or any other rankings, Gasol is consistently top 5 or close to it.
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#30 » by daddyfivestar » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:42 pm

now that [edited] is going to look like I said a totally bad word instead of a mild one like female dog slapped.
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#31 » by DowJones » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:28 am

1. You can project Gasol and even Odom as a future All-Star player all you want. While I think Odom will never see an All-Star game, I will even concede that anything can happen. You mentioned that Portland has only 1 surefire All-Star in Roy. I responded by saying that L.A. only has 1 surefire All-Star and that is Kobe. Neither Odom or Gasol are locks to make another All-Star game. They just aren't. Gasol has a chance, and gun to my head I think he does make another one before his career is over, but they aren't "surefire" All-Stars.

2. Comparing Joe Crawford to Greg Oden as far as prospects go is more pathetic than comparing Greg Oden to Andrew Bynum. I understand that you are a Laker fan, so I won't go too far into this. If I was starting a franchise, my personal opinion is that Oden>Bynum. But I can understand why someone would say that production>potential....just understand that this would be like someone saying that "you can't even compare Derrick Rose to Devin Harris". That is an example I can use that isn't Laker related.

3. As far as Gasol being equal to Bosh and being a top-5 PF in the NBA, I will just leave that alone. We agree to disagree on that part. :)
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#32 » by lukeridenour » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:24 am

the lakers. the home of the highest ticket prices.
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#33 » by daddyfivestar » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:37 am

^^ that's what 14 Championships, 29 Finals, and 55 out of 60 yrs in the Playoffs gets you.
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#34 » by BballFanAddict » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:11 am

It depends who has homecourt advantage. If the Lakers have homecourt then my money is on LA. However, if they have to play 4 out of 7 games in rainy Portland, in the Rose Garden, then I will take the Blazers. And, I do not care who is playing on either team.

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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#35 » by DubaLakers » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:11 am

The original post should have been worded better. I meant investments as far as TROPHIES, not the most FINANCIALLY SECURE INVESTMENT which would be the NYK or the LAL. My fault for jacking up the question and not making it perfectly clear.

Portland is still the best answer IMO. You have the best young cheap talent in the league a basketball rabid city and an owner with DEEP pockets.

Actually scratch that I made it pretty damn clear. Pay attention people! :wink:
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#36 » by milesfides » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:23 pm

So you think the Blazers will win more championships than the Lakers in the next however many years?

Wow.

Let me say this, no matter how nice these Portland kids seem, they can't hold a candle to a roster that boasted Scottie Pippen, Rasheed Wallace, Sabonis, Steve Smith, Damon Stoudamire, Bonzi Wells, Brian Grant, Detlef Schrempf, Jermaine O'Neal, Greg Anthony, and Stacey Augmon.

And that great team couldn't get past the Conference Finals because they couldn't get past the Lakers.

And these young Blazers won't get past the Lakers either.
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#37 » by hermes » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:38 pm

potential is a cruel and unusual mistress

you can bet big on the blazers and win big, or lose big

or you can go with the safer bet, the lakers

the lakers have bynum and what he could potentially be, and what the team could potentially play like together

potential is what the blazers will be living off of for a while, they are banking on the potential of an entire team to come through big for them, the lakers are banking on the potential of one player to put them over the top
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#38 » by milesfides » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:14 pm

I just don't see how the Blazers have better potential than the Lakers.

The Lakers are a pretty young team too.

They have the best player in the league, a top 5 pf, and a top 5 center. They got decent depth and a lot of youth.

The Blazers have one very good player - Roy. They've got a solid PF (I consider Aldridge comparable to Odom, who'd be our 4th best player), a serviceable PG, and that's it. Everybody else is unproven or bit players.

Barring injury or anything unexpected, the Lakers should be championship contenders for the next 6, 7 years.

The question for the Blazers is, can they make the playoffs next year?
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#39 » by hermes » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:26 pm

i don't think they have better potential, they have more of it, which necessarily isn't a good thing

the lakers do have as much, because a lot of their potential has been realized, we know the lakers are a great team that can perform well and make it deep into the playoffs
the one piece the lakers are waiting on is bynum

the blazers are unproven, hence the vast amount of potential the team has, they haven't realized their potential, we don't know what kind of team they could be
they could be great, they could be a good team, everything could blow up, and they could be bad

so if i'm investing i'm inclined to make the safer move and go with the lakers, the more proven commodity
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Re: Which team would you invest in? 

Post#40 » by milesfides » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:42 pm

fair enough, i see what you're saying.
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