Should this team go after Okafor?

[Worm Guts]

Collins might be solid defensively, but he's terrible offensively. He's OK to fill some minutes but he's no great asset.

[prefuse73]

We have pleny of offense with love/jefferson/smith... Collins is a great asset...to us. name the other 7 foot defensive presence on our roster...

[Worm Guts]

We have pleny of offense with love/jefferson/smith... Collins is a great asset...to us. name the other 7 foot defensive presence on our roster...

Not having another 7 foot defensive presence doesn't make Collins a great asset.

[misterglover]

I can nip this in the bud now....Any trade we would want with you guys we would start and end with Love, since its obvious Big Al is your franchise player we wouldnt go there but we would want a young big in return and the Bobcats really liked Love but he got drafted before we got the chance....Since it seems you guys would like to hold onto to him there isnt a trade to be had....

[Devilzsidewalk]

you mean you won't take like Cardinal and Collins and maybe some future 2nd rounders????

[TrentTuckerForever]

We have pleny of offense with love/jefferson/smith... Collins is a great asset...to us. name the other 7 foot defensive presence on our roster...

I like Collins a lot, and I do think of him as an asset. But I don't think you can argue, in terms of long-term value (over the next 5 years), that:

Okafor > Collins + Miller

You can HOPE Thabeet can become what Okafor already is now: a defensive-minded seven footer. Thabeet could be that, or he could be Patrick O'Bryant. Okafor is a proven commodity.

[TrentTuckerForever]

Now let's suppose CHA was stifled for a while, and couldn't get a good offer from other teams until our new players became trade-eligible on August 28th. Could we land there?

$9.13 Mike Miller
$6.20 Jason Collins
$3.16 Kevin Love
$18.49

... but that would probably be the price. Remember, they could simply let him walk and clear cap space THIS year.

Shrink, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think the BYC thing come into effect with a restricted free agent. Okafor's rights are held by Charlotte, but he technically has no cap value for the Bobs right now. BYC goes into effect AFTER an extension is signed, doesn't it? To prevent a team from signing a player it doesn't intend to keep?

[Devilzsidewalk]

actually you're both wrong

I'd explain more, but it's over your heads. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to head to the local university to give a lecture on something really complicated with lots of details - because that's how smart I am

[Klomp]

I don't think we should go after him. I'm happy with our team as-is once we sign Gomes.

[TrentTuckerForever]

actually you're both wrong

I'd explain more, but it's over your heads. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to head to the local university to give a lecture on something really complicated with lots of details - because that's how smart I am

Don't you dare make me wheel out the "Liar liar, pants on fire" defense, Devilz. I'll do it if provoked!

[shrink]

Shrink, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think the BYC thing come into effect with a restricted free agent. Okafor's rights are held by Charlotte, but he technically has no cap value for the Bobs right now. BYC goes into effect AFTER an extension is signed, doesn't it? To prevent a team from signing a player it doesn't intend to keep?

You're right about extensions, but its also for re-signing your own free agents. Here's parts of #73 and #76 in the Larry Coon FAQ, who can explain things better than me.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73

BYC defines the salary that's used to compare players for compliance under the Traded Player exception (see question number 68 for more information about the Traded Player exception). Usually the salary used for comparison is the player's actual salary. But under either of the following circumstances, a different salary is used when comparing salaries for trading purposes:

The team is over the salary cap, used the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception to re-sign the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20% (unless it's the minimum salary).

The team is over the salary cap, it extended the player's rookie scale contract, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.

If either of the above apply, then the player is considered a base year player.

76. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

Under no circumstances can a team sign and then trade another team's free agent. But there is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under the sign-and-trade rule, the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract which stipulates that the contract is invalid if the player's rights are not traded to the specific team within 48 hours.

A sign-and-trade deal can be made even with players who have been renounced, but cannot be made when the player is signed using the Mid-Level, Bi-Annual or Disabled Player exceptions. Sign-and-trade contracts must be for three years or longer, but only the first season of the contract must be guaranteed. The three year minimum (even though the last two seasons may be non-guaranteed) ensures that the new team will not acquire Bird rights to the player any sooner than if they had signed him directly, because if they want to give him a new contract using Bird rights then they would have to waive him first, which resets the Bird clock.

One complication with sign-and-trade deals is that the signed player can immediately become a BYC player (see question number 73 for more information on BYC), so the player's BYC value must be used when determining whether the trade is allowed.

[deeney0]

I'd Love Okafor, but I don't see how this team gets him.

[TrentTuckerForever]

You're right about extensions, but its also for re-signing your own free agents. Here's parts of #73 and #76 in the Larry Coon FAQ, who can explain things better than me.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73

BYC defines the salary that's used to compare players for compliance under the Traded Player exception (see question number 68 for more information about the Traded Player exception). Usually the salary used for comparison is the player's actual salary. But under either of the following circumstances, a different salary is used when comparing salaries for trading purposes:

The team is over the salary cap, used the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception to re-sign the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20% (unless it's the minimum salary).

The team is over the salary cap, it extended the player's rookie scale contract, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.

If either of the above apply, then the player is considered a base year player.

76. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

...One complication with sign-and-trade deals is that the signed player can immediately become a BYC player (see question number 73 for more information on BYC), so the player's BYC value must be used when determining whether the trade is allowed.

I learned something new today, thanks shrink! I thought the same salary matching rules applied to free agents in sign-and-trades as in other capped out teams, i.e. if you want to offer free agent X $10 million per year, but you don't want to sign them outright, you can offer X's team $10 million in your own contracts in a sign-and-trade, so they will get some value for their guy.

According to Coon (who's pretty much the authority on CBA stuff as far as I know) it's the BYC value of free agent X is the S&T, not the straight $10 million. Interesting.

[Tekkenlaw]

I used to be a big fan of bringing in Okafor, but now I'm not too sure due to how much we would have to give up. I rather have us just go after a big defensive specialist to bring off the bench like Hasheem Thabeet.