Tyrus Thomas, a Bust?

[thegreatblaze]

Someone get their feelings hurt?

[thegreatblaze]

For the record, I read through a thread that had a few pages explaining why Thomas has the edge over Aldridge with the 82games stats. I've also seen it in other threads as well. As well as criticizing Aldridge's game and saying he's peaked. Maybe not most Bulls fans, but quite a few.

No need to rip on Aldridge to make yourself feel better about Thomas.

[Farm Raid]

He might be a bust and he looks like one now, but it's too early to really say. LMA is better but not by enough for anyone to be kicking themselves over losing some multiple All-Star PF or something.

[Ballings7]

I don't believe there is any justification in calling him a "bust" yet (which I see quite a bit of). It's just way too early, with way too inconsistent and unfair, of a chance to play, learn, and evolve. When he's recieved decent or better minutes, he's played relatively well more than not.

Can't overlook the actuality of his situation so far, two seasons into his career at 21 years old (8/17). But unfortunately people do, and consequently they just have an off perspective on Tyrus.

I think he needs 1/1+ season to really get going, steadily developing a form of consistent play over that time. Assuming he gets a set chance to play, which he should now.

[ISB]

I think the hope was that Thomas could be a Josh Smith type of player. They are both slightly undersized PFs with freak athleticism and shot blocking. Thomas hasn't shown anywhere near as much overall skill as Smith however. I think he'll have a place in the league for a long time as an energy player, but at this point I think it's pretty likely that the Bulls will regret not keeping Aldridge instead.

[gordeng]

He's no future All-star, but he's a lot better than the haters make him out to be. He'll be a solid double-double guy in his prime, and can make the 1st or 2nd all-defense on a regular basis.

[toast]

After reading 2 pages of most posters responding that it is too early tell if Thomas is a bust or not, I think I'll make the point the OP was aluding too but will probably make later.

That is WHY is Thomas considered a work in progress and Bragnani is considered a bust.
I think that it is clear for reading this board that the vast majority of posters think that Bragnani will be a bust. Hence the nickname Bustnani. Yet why is Tyrus Thomas given way more leaway in the bust department. Both have played 2 years. Both were projected as projects for different reasons. Both have shown flashes of potential but not been able to sustain it. Both have holes in their game. Both have been somewhat misused by their coaches, and have gotten into the doghouse for inexplicible reasons. Both teams could have drafted a lot better (The Bulls wanted Thomas even though he was picked 4th. They could have had Aldrich, ROY or GAY if they felt they were going to be better players.) On top of it all Bragnani is forced to play away from his natural position as a skilled outside PF and try to become a C.

Really for those that consider Bragnani bust and Thomas a project why is this so? Is it a European bias after Milicic? Is it that run and jump athelets get more of a space to prove themself to the public? Is it racial? Is it anti-raptors? I would really like the Bustnani people to respond. I am not trying to stir up the pot. I honestly can't for the life of me figure why people consider one is a bust and the other is not.

[farzi]

It's funny, most Bulls fans either think he is or will be > Lamarcus Aldridge and that they didn't blow that pick. Some also think that Aldridge has peaked already.

Not trying to start anything here, I just think it's funny.

Where'd you come up with that? -- Cuz, now you're reaching into something that isn't even there.

I frequent the Bulls board a LOT, and that's not what most Bulls fans are saying.

Unless you're reading something else, which I am sure you definitely are.

He doesn't let facts get in the way of being a dick.

One to talk?

[jax98]

One of the major reasons the Bulls hired Vinny Del Negro was because they wanted the youngsters to get more playing time. Jim Boylan & Scott Skiles prefer veterans and flat-out cheated Tyrus for minutes.

On many occasions we would see Tyrus come in late in the first quarter and do something wonderful. He would block a shot, get a put-back and make a solid pass while rotating properly and not make any large mistakes. He would then be benched untill garbage time.

That is not how you develop young players. That's how you alienate a player from wanting to improve and help the team.

There's really no question that Tyrus is a decent young player. We've seen it. But when he has yet to receive the same total amount of minutes as Adam Morrison (in two years!) you still don't know if you have an okay player or a terrific player on your team.

The games he's had with extended minutes strongly suggest he's a player who can make an absolutely huge defensive difference for a team.

[toast]

On many occasions we would see Tyrus come in late in the first quarter and do something wonderful. He would block a shot, get a put-back and make a solid pass while rotating properly and not make any large mistakes. He would then be benched untill garbage time.

That also happened fairly regularly with Bragnani. The problem is that we didn't bring in a new coach. Bragnani started out the season averaging 20 and 6 then got pulled from the starting lineup. He would play very good man defense with a lot of energy and miss a shot and get pulled. Then Mitchell would keep him out there when he was playing like crap just to prove that he would play him.

[jax98]

That also happened fairly regularly with Bragnani. The problem is that we didn't bring in a new coach. Bragnani started out the season averaging 20 and 6 then got pulled from the starting lineup. He would play very good man defense with a lot of energy and miss a shot and get pulled. Then Mitchell would keep him out there when he was playing like crap just to prove that he would play him.

I think it's a douche move to rookies and young players in general. A lot of players develop from playing through mistakes and learning from them. I understand teams who are in a win-now mode doesn't want to go in that route, but teams who are in the middle of the pack with a high potential player cannot afford to let him rot on the bench.

[toast]

I think it's a douche move to rookies and young players in general. A lot of players develop from playing through mistakes and learning from them. I understand teams who are in a win-now mode doesn't want to go in that route, but teams who are in the middle of the pack with a high potential player cannot afford to let him rot on the bench.

The problem is the conflicting role between GM and Coach, particularly if you are in the middle of the pack. The Coach is always in a win now mode, because ultimately it is his winning percentage that is attached to his value as a coach. Quick who is the better coach Mo Cheeks or Flip Saunders? What stat do you think that people (and Flip himself uses in a contract negotion) use to prove Saunders is the better coach? His development ability?

The other thing that is rarely mentioned is the age gap and understanding between a coach and a young player. A 40 something coach has a lot more in common with a early 30's player that is married with kids than with a 20 year old. This commonality usually means trust. Trust off the court often translates to trust on the court.

[jax98]

Good post toast, and I agree.

You do however once in a while find these coaches who really want to see young players develop. When you do, you hang onto that coach. I can easily understand the mind-set of a coach wanting his experienced players to get first dips. But you also need to be realistic and put forward a good team.

Tyrus Thomas outplayed Andres Nocioni, PJ Brown, Michael Sweetney & Ben Wallace on many, many, many occasions. Yet, he was still last in the rotation. So that understanding between coach and veteran needs to be a mutual understanding;

'We'll play you, but you have to understand the kid is good and will need some time on the floor, capiche?'

[GswStorm3]

Not yet, but it's not looking good.