If I was Rod Thorn I would......

aussienet · Post #1 » by **aussienet** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:54 am

Guy's I'm trying to fathom the direction in which Thorn is going. Some day's I look at our squad and think it looks good and I'm excited, other days i look and think we overloaded in one spot, have a weak bench and so on. What I'm asking for those of you who are interested is to make your calls on what moves you would make to round out our roster. Then show us your starting five then reserves.
Please no homer deals like swift and hassell for lebron. We are better than that. Be as realistic as you can. Think of the other teams you are trading with and would they want what you are offering. Try not to look at your deals through rose coloured glasses. Put your gm skills to the test.

I am struggling for time with work at the moment. I will post my moves and thoughts very soon.

Cheers

jeff1624 · Post #2 » by **jeff1624** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:29 am

Actually I think our bench is pretty good compared to the last few years. We have guys who can come off the bench and score.

As for upcoming moves, who knows. My best bet would be that we waive Keith Van Horn to make room for Krstic(after he accepts the qualifying offer). Maybe make a move for a 3rd stringer like diener or dickau(would be my ideal choice).

Preludepunk27 · Post #3 » by **Preludepunk27** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:55 am

Yeah we'll definitely try to orchestrate a 3 for 2 deal or 4 for 2 deal in my opinion to free up a roster spot. Problem for Nenad now is that we're loaded at the 4 and 5 now so if I were him I'd look for a long term deal NOW. If we had our roster like last years, I'd take the qualifying and hope I can earn a fat pay day. That's not gonna happen for him this year. Any team willing to give me a 4-5 year deal, I'd probably take it to Thorn and tell him to orchestrate a sign-and-trade or match it. I really like the S&T deals we've talked about with the Pacers actually.

With all that said, I think we HAVE TO move either Stro or Hassell at least before the season starts. Honestly, I don't even care what we get for them. If a team has a 4million TE, I'd totally be ok with taking that for Hassell. Stro is a nice chunk of change. Hell I'd even call Portland and see if they'd take Stro/Hassell/GSW's 1st rounder for Raef. Raef can wear a suit all season, be a high character guy, maybe tell Ryan Anderson stories about days when the name Raef mildly meant something, and we'd actually be able to do some damage next offseason too without hurting 2010 cap space. This is just one idea though.

Another we could offer Stro and Hassell up for Larry Hughes. Not the greatest player in the world but I'd be fine with him. Chicago saves about 3 million in that deal so maybe they'll have more leeway to offer Deng or Gordon more cash now. Hughes's 13.6 million comes off in 2010 and would allow us to sign Lebron, extend some players or get some complimentary players and not shoot ourselves in the foot.

Even with the trade of Marcus...I still think we should call about Stephen Jackson or Al Harrington

I'd also call Sacramento about trying to get a package of Brad Miller and Francisco Garcia. Long shots but it wouldn't hurt to call

That's all I can think of right now. But I'd make those calls. We have these to offer:

Krstic S&T
Stro's expiring
Hassell (who I think would be a great defender off the bench for a contender)
Sean or Josh but not both
Maurice Ager (never gonna get a chance here)
GSW's pick (Sorry I'm not giving up our 2009 or both our 2010 picks unless we get a legit player or young guy we are CONVINCED will be a stud to play with Lebron or any other 2010 free agent)

If we could unload some package consisting of a few of these parts, I'd be ok with it. I think we could realistically nab one of the deals I've mentioned above. Some don't make us better but give us cap room without giving up anyone of value while some help push us to the playoffs possibly but give us the cap room we need in 2010 still.

These are just some thoughts popping through my head before midnight so take them like a grain of salt. Feel free to compliment or flame away though. Really don't care.

Night all!

- Steve

lurkingobeiscity · Post #4 » by **lurkingobeiscity** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:40 am

If I'm Rod Thorn I don't look to do anything except explore offers from other teams. The big moves have been made. Now its just a matter of finding value trades.

Preludepunk27 · Post #5 » by **Preludepunk27** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:49 am

I'm a little confused by what you call "value trades" and some of the ideas I proposed. Besides a straight up salary dump with LaFrentz, I thought we were getting good value for everything I was talking about which means:

1. player that can help us over the next year or 2
2. those players come off the books by summer 2010
3. some possibly could get players that can be part of our future (i.e. shawne williams or garcia)

I just want to be on the same page so what are some value trades you would possibly look into?

deviljets7 · Post #6 » by **deviljets7** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:54 am

Preludepunk27 wrote:Yeah we'll definitely try to orchestrate a 3 for 2 deal or 4 for 2 deal in my opinion to free up a roster spot. Problem for Nenad now is that we're loaded at the 4 and 5 now so if I were him I'd look for a long term deal NOW. If we had our roster like last years, I'd take the qualifying and hope I can earn a fat pay day. That's not gonna happen for him this year. Any team willing to give me a 4-5 year deal, I'd probably take it to Thorn and tell him to orchestrate a sign-and-trade or match it. I really like the S&T deals we've talked about with the Pacers actually.

With all that said, I think we HAVE TO move either Stro or Hassell at least before the season starts. Honestly, I don't even care what we get for them. If a team has a 4million TE, I'd totally be ok with taking that for Hassell. Stro is a nice chunk of change. Hell I'd even call Portland and see if they'd take Stro/Hassell/GSW's 1st rounder for Raef. Raef can wear a suit all season, be a high character guy, maybe tell Ryan Anderson stories about days when the name Raef mildly meant something, and we'd actually be able to do some damage next offseason too without hurting 2010 cap space. This is just one idea though.

Another we could offer Stro and Hassell up for Larry Hughes. Not the greatest player in the world but I'd be fine with him. Chicago saves about 3 million in that deal so maybe they'll have more leeway to offer Deng or Gordon more cash now. Hughes's 13.6 million comes off in 2010 and would allow us to sign Lebron, extend some players or get some complimentary players and not shoot ourselves in the foot.

Even with the trade of Marcus...I still think we should call about Stephen Jackson or Al Harrington

I'd also call Sacramento about trying to get a package of Brad Miller and Francisco Garcia. Long shots but it wouldn't hurt to call

That's all I can think of right now. But I'd make those calls. We have these to offer:

Krstic S&T
Stro's expiring
Hassell (who I think would be a great defender off the bench for a contender)
Sean or Josh but not both
Maurice Ager (never gonna get a chance here)
GSW's pick (Sorry I'm not giving up our 2009 or both our 2010 picks unless we get a legit player or young guy we are CONVINCED will be a stud to play with Lebron or any other 2010 free agent)

If we could unload some package consisting of a few of these parts, I'd be ok with it. I think we could realistically nab one of the deals I've mentioned above. Some don't make us better but give us cap room without giving up anyone of value while some help push us to the playoffs possibly but give us the cap room we need in 2010 still.

These are just some thoughts popping through my head before midnight so take them like a grain of salt. Feel free to compliment or flame away though. Really don't care.

Night all!

- Steve

IMO, you are trying so hard to find a 2 or 3 for 1 trade, that you are missing the easiest (and likely cheapest) way to get out of this roster crunch. The Raef and Hughes trade ideas are disturbingly bad (Raef especially) and it would cost the Nets less money to just buy out Swift and/or Ager.

S.I.C. GM · Post #7 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:45 pm

deviljets7 wrote:
Preludepunk27 wrote:Yeah we'll definitely try to orchestrate a 3 for 2 deal or 4 for 2 deal in my opinion to free up a roster spot. Problem for Nenad now is that we're loaded at the 4 and 5 now so if I were him I'd look for a long term deal NOW. If we had our roster like last years, I'd take the qualifying and hope I can earn a fat pay day. That's not gonna happen for him this year. Any team willing to give me a 4-5 year deal, I'd probably take it to Thorn and tell him to orchestrate a sign-and-trade or match it. I really like the S&T deals we've talked about with the Pacers actually.

With all that said, I think we HAVE TO move either Stro or Hassell at least before the season starts. Honestly, I don't even care what we get for them. If a team has a 4million TE, I'd totally be ok with taking that for Hassell. Stro is a nice chunk of change. Hell I'd even call Portland and see if they'd take Stro/Hassell/GSW's 1st rounder for Raef. Raef can wear a suit all season, be a high character guy, maybe tell Ryan Anderson stories about days when the name Raef mildly meant something, and we'd actually be able to do some damage next offseason too without hurting 2010 cap space. This is just one idea though.

Another we could offer Stro and Hassell up for Larry Hughes. Not the greatest player in the world but I'd be fine with him. Chicago saves about 3 million in that deal so maybe they'll have more leeway to offer Deng or Gordon more cash now. Hughes's 13.6 million comes off in 2010 and would allow us to sign Lebron, extend some players or get some complimentary players and not shoot ourselves in the foot.

Even with the trade of Marcus...I still think we should call about Stephen Jackson or Al Harrington

I'd also call Sacramento about trying to get a package of Brad Miller and Francisco Garcia. Long shots but it wouldn't hurt to call

That's all I can think of right now. But I'd make those calls. We have these to offer:

Krstic S&T
Stro's expiring
Hassell (who I think would be a great defender off the bench for a contender)
Sean or Josh but not both
Maurice Ager (never gonna get a chance here)
GSW's pick (Sorry I'm not giving up our 2009 or both our 2010 picks unless we get a legit player or young guy we are CONVINCED will be a stud to play with Lebron or any other 2010 free agent)

If we could unload some package consisting of a few of these parts, I'd be ok with it. I think we could realistically nab one of the deals I've mentioned above. Some don't make us better but give us cap room without giving up anyone of value while some help push us to the playoffs possibly but give us the cap room we need in 2010 still.

These are just some thoughts popping through my head before midnight so take them like a grain of salt. Feel free to compliment or flame away though. Really don't care.

Night all!

- Steve

IMO, you are trying so hard to find a 2 or 3 for 1 trade, that you are missing the easiest (and likely cheapest) way to get out of this roster crunch. The Raef and Hughes trade ideas are disturbingly bad (Raef especially) and it would cost the Nets less money to just buy out Swift and/or Ager.

I totally agree with you.

We dont have to push another trade. We just need a back up combo guard. IMO I think Rod likes Jaycee and he will get invited to training camp to eventually get a spot.

Between KVH, Swift, and/or Ager, the most logical thing to make room is to waive 1 or 2 of them. KVH might have to be one of them by default.

Preludepunk27 · Post #8 » by **Preludepunk27** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:13 pm

KVH everyone is expecting to be bought out. He's not even talked about really when writers mention our roster because everyone knows he won't be here. We have the max players allowed without even including KVH.

In terms for Carroll, we'd have to waive KVH plus another guy just to make room for Carroll. Say we waive KVH and Swift (for argument sake) and signed Carroll. You really think he's gonna be on the Active roster? He and Ager will probably be inactive until someone gets hurt. For that reason, I don't think we'd sign him to a contract. What will likely happen is we'll cut our roster down for 14 guaranteed contracts, and if someone gets hurt in the back court we'll sign Carroll to fill the void until the guy is healthy again. If not, there are other D-League rent a players that are possible. The other option is to sign Carroll if we're afraid someone else may sign him and stash him in the D-League until the injury situation happens and call him up. Regardless, unless we clear a few more roster spots it ain't happening. I just don't see us carrying 15 players.

I personally don't see Swift being bought out. When a player picks up his player option isn't his contract fully guaranteed (or at least close to it) which would mean we'd have to give him 6 million to buy him out? I agree in the long run it would cost them less money to buy out Swift/Ager to make room for 1 player like Krstic or Carroll, but from watching Thorn all these years, I just see that as an ABSOLUTE last option and will only do it if it will actually save us a nice chunk of change.

Yes, the Raef deal is a dumb one but actually it wouldn't cost us as much as you think. Say we trade Swift/Hassell and for some reason Portland accepts. Stro makes 6.2 million this year. Hassel is guaranteed this year 4.35 million. Hassell's buyout is going to cost close to 6 million depending on how much of his last year is guaranteed. Granted I don't know guarantees in player option years but his buy out would probably in the end cost us close to 6 million. Stro's won't be too far off that either which is going to push you closer to what Raef's salary is just this season so in the end, it's only a little more on the cap this year and we can probably take on the extra cash and not exceed the lux tax and give us some leverage to work a solid free agent next offseason as well as 2010. Will Raef wear a suit for us 82 games? More than likely, but if we're not gonna add a player of mild substance (i.e. player that can be relied on more than Stro or Hassell), then I'm ok with this deal. Again, these players I posed were off the top of my head right before bed so I wasn't thinking completely straight.

I agree Hughes is bad since he makes dumb money the next 2 years. I honestly don't think he's a bad player though. If we pulled the trigger and gave up nobody of substance for us, I really wouldn't be against it. I'd rather go after other players but we have a lot of guys that play the 3/4/5 so logically, I'd look at adding 1 more combo guard type guy. I'd rather try maybe a more oversized point guard like Marko Jaric that can play the 2 but his ship sailed in the trade to Memphis. Again, agree Hughes is a bad move but the end result is the same: Cap room for Lebron which we already have but also enough space too to extend some guys we feel will be part of our future without destroying the lux tax.

chrbal · Post #9 » by **chrbal** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:42 pm

Team is clearly in rebuilding mode. But they haven't gone with the "tear it down" theory. Its more along the lines of wait for the deal you want, rather then "nets fire sale, inquire within".

Most of the free agents that they've gone after are solid role players are short contracts (with Najera being the exception).

The only thing that I think is odd, is the fact that Lawrence Frank is still the head coach.

Preludepunk27 · Post #10 » by **Preludepunk27** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:11 pm

I don't really think my trades are in the "tear it down" section though. Mine are seeing if we can move any assets (mainly some combo of Stro/Hassell/Ager) for something that will still make us flexible but opening roster space if we ever needed it...like if we wanted to give Jaycee Carroll a spot like a lot of people here have been talking about. We all can agree that the 3 I've listed are not in our plans. Hell there is a rather good chance they're barely gonna play.

Now I'm not going on a campain to get a guy like Raef, just using him as an example. I'd rather have 1 guy on our roster who won't play, who will cost us as much as Stro/Hassell would if bought out almost, and have a free roster spot for someone like Nenad or Jaycee. Again, yes if we bought Stro/Hassell out it would actually be the same end result, however, since Hassell has another year left, part of his buyout would count this year and part would count next year. I'd rather just do something like trade them for an expiring (if we could. so far no luck) and get the same amount of money off the books after this season and just hold buying them out as an absolute LAST option.

Of course the majority of you may think I'm crazy but I don't believe it's completely idiotic logic.

HotShots · Post #11 » by **HotShots** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:09 am

I would go after Odom.

With these offers:
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=4738093
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=4738098
I would even throw in GS's pick to get Odom

Lakers need back up at 4 and 5. They lost Turiaf to GS and Bynum is still not a 100%. He might not be until 09-10 season. Just like Nenad wasnt 100% last season......even with all the BS that Nenad was ready for the 07-08 season. I'll bet you Bynum wont be either.

We would take back more money helping the Lakers out and fill their needs at 4 and 5 with Boone & Swift.

Dev/Dooling
VC/Hayes/CDR
Odom/Simmons/Anderson
Yi/Najera/
Lopez/Sean....Nenad???(would be nice to keep him for cheap)

Depending on which trade.....we would keep either Hassell or Ager. Odom is a sweet piece to have.......he will be in demand come Feb 2009. If things dont work out we could always move him or help him with a sign and trade next summer.

***Odom/Simmon can also play the 4 at times.***

ib4 · Post #12 » by **ib4** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:54 pm

^would lakers really do either of those?

Preludepunk27 · Post #13 » by **Preludepunk27** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:17 pm

^^^ I don't think so. I don't think they'd want bench players and 1 player with upside for Odom when they're trying to contend. They're gonna want a player like Artest or someone at least in that tier of player in return.

HotShots · Post #14 » by **HotShots** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:34 am

True but everyone will look at him as a 1 year rental. They can try and get more but will someone give them more. I remember when VC was in his final year of his contract.......alot of teams didnt want him for a 1 year rental. It all depends who is willing to give up an elite player for Odom. Maybe we can push with a higher pick. One of the 2010 picks.

The next best option would be Al Harrington.

I would love to get Caron Butler. He is another great player that has a BIG HEART for the game but no chance we could ever get him.

I guess will have to wait for King James in 2010.

lurkingobeiscity · Post #15 » by **lurkingobeiscity** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:48 am

All I mean is that we shouldn't try that hard to shop our guys in a search for short-term solutions or roster balance. At this point, with the heavy lifting done, it is much better to sit back and let the trade offers come from other teams. There is no true NEED to do anything at all, so the Nets should just wait for perfect trades to come along.

In the mean time make a smaller move or two such as buying out Ager and signing a 3rd PG.

Stone · Post #16 » by **Stone** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:26 am

I like the moves Rod has made thus far. I am all for rebuilding with a three to five year gameplan in mind. I like to see us showcase Vince with the hope of us moving him with his stock high either at the end of next season or the trade deadline of the following season.

I'd like to see us bottom out and get some high draft picks and build from there. I don't think any of the above proposals are bad. Putting together a champianship team is like catching lighning in a bottle. There is a certain amount of timing and luck involved. But I do agree with Lurkings post above. Were not going anywhere anytime soon so we may as well let them come to us.

djsunyc · Post #17 » by **djsunyc** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:57 pm

forget about what the team looks like this year or next. what thorn/kiki are doing is positioning themselves to sign TWO major free agents in summer 2010.

in the interim, he want gallinari but ended up with yi so the nets can get an influx of international dollars to hold them over.

SoupOrSonics · Post #18 » by **SoupOrSonics** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:29 am

I like the direction the Nets are going in. They helped their payroll status, they pulled in one of the most promising point guards in the game, they brought in an ice-cold bench player in Dooling, they had a very, very solid draft, they have a good coach....

I am still not sold on the RJ trade, but that seems to be more of a financial trade than anything. Darn RJ for being so expensive...

S.I.C. GM · Post #19 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:47 pm

SoupOrSonics wrote:I like the direction the Nets are going in. They helped their payroll status, they pulled in one of the most promising point guards in the game, they brought in an ice-cold bench player in Dooling, they had a very, very solid draft, they have a good coach....

I am still not sold on the RJ trade, but that seems to be more of a financial trade than anything. Darn RJ for being so expensive...

Take those words back.

We have a questionable coach.

Preludepunk27 · Post #20 » by **Preludepunk27** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:25 pm

^^^ Yes as of right now I'd say we have a coach that has shown some flashes of being a good coach over the years but is inconsistant. He's gotten a free-pass every season he's been here because something wild always happened (kidd surgery, rj injuries, nenad injury, kidd trade). He also has not found a staff that has properly developed a young player (excluding Nenad) into anything more than a rotation guy so this season will be a big question mark as to how our young team progresses. The only thing he has going for him is that the coaching staff and management love him and have faith in him. Until he gains consistancy I'm holding my breath on the words "good coach." Granted he's had to deal with a fair share of annoyances since taking over the Nets (Not to mention he was the youngest head coach ever when he took over too), a good coach makes do with what they have and can get guys to step up. I haven't seen that too much with Frank.