What the Sixers Really Need from a 2 Guard

[Sixerscan]

Yes this is an Iguodala thread. Yes we have too many but at least this one starts out with that topic rather than changing to it in mid thread. I don't usually like to start new threads but here it goes. Yes it's long, it's Saturday and I was bored.

People have been saying for a while now that Iguodala is a bad fit because he can't shoot. I'm hearing names like Mike Redd or Mike Miller, people who can shoot but not do much else. And people are ok with that, because it seems like that's our "missing piece," a shooter. With someone hitting 3s it opens down low for Brand, ect...

The problem is that without Andre, different holes open, much more major holes. I'm going to use Mike Redd as an example because he's been talked about alot, but you can read it as "generic shooter."

Here is why Iguodala is a good fit for this team:

1. Defense.

Right now, our two wings are Andre and Thad. Andre as we all know is an above average defender. Thad, while he gave a great effort last year, did not amaze with his man to man skills, and I don't think anyone has confidence in him keeping up with fast 2 guards like Kobe or Wade.

So, if you bring in Redd, now your wings are obviously now Redd and Thad. We're facing the Heat tonight. Do you see the problem? Who is covering Wade? Do we play Willie extra time? Great now one of Thad or Redd are playing less and we have Willie freaking Green playing major minutes.

And what about when Thad isn't in the game? Thad is 20 years old, can we really expect more than 25 good minutes a night from him? We're playing Cleveland. Who the hell is covering James during the 20 minutes Thad isn't in? Willie again? Good lord.

So it doesn't make any sense to trade him for Mike Redd and you definitely can't trade him for a bench player like Mike Miller unless you want to get lit up by opposing wing players every night.

2. Ball Handling
Yes, we have Andre Miller and he's fine until he falls apart horribly like the Blue Brother's Mobile as all point guard do when they get old. But, good teams have multiple guys that can handle the ball. Boston, LA, the Spurs, Detriot, all these teams have wing guys that can handle the ball. Iguodala, despite what some may believe, did not have major TO issues. He averaged 2.6 a game, which is fine, and 2.0 after the ASB, which is more than fine. And his assists were fairly high for a guy that spent a lot of the year at the 3.

Now, who do we have after Miller? Louis. Who is not point guard (Yet), he's a scorer, and when you have a scorer at the 1, you need a guy at the 2 that can split the point guard spot and handle the ball or else you end up like, oh I don't know, Milwaukee where everyone just stands around and isolates. So when Miller isn't in the game we need someone that can handle. Like Iguodala.

3. Elton Brand doesn't need a great 3 point shooter to be effective

Remember that guy we gave 80 million to? He's really good. In 05/06 he was one of the best players in the NBA, went for 25/10 a night. His team was 26th in 3 point shooting % that year.

4. How important are 3s, really?

People are getting so crazy about three pointers that they forget that it's just one small aspect of the game. It's not as important as defense, it's not even really as important as ball handling. You shoot them like 18 times a game. The best teams will make a little more than 7 out of 18, the worst will make a little less than 6 out of 18. Of course the best teams will shoot more than 18 and the worst will shoot less, but the difference isn't insurmountable and definitely can be made up in other areas (Like Defense and ball handling.

You can be a good team without being good at 3s, you can been a great team being bad at 3s. Sixers fans of all people should know this.

This team won 48 games and a playoff round shooting a worse percentage than we did last year and their main post presence was a 35 year old Derrick Coleman.

This team made the finals shooting .9% better than we did last year.

So what I'm saying is, don't let one aspect of the game rule who you want at a position. Because it could be much worse...

[The Guilty Party]

I'm not even concerned so much about 3 pointers as I am on shots from 17 feet and out. Right now, Miller and Iguodala are the worst shooting backcourt in the NBA. While it would be nice to punish teams from beyond the 3 point line... I'm just worried that we won't be able to punish any team for either doubling down on Brand or playing a zone against us.

I believe dabods has a stat that shows Iguodala's percentages from 17 feet and out and it's not encouraging. What team in the NBA has a worse shooting backcourt than us??

Also... I think Iguodala can be a solid 2 guard in the league but his deficiencies are magnified that much more when he's paired with such a poor shooting PG. If this team had a shooter playing the point (see: Hinrich, Kirk) than Iguodala's inability to consistently make a shot outside of 17 feet wouldn't be as big of a problem.

The pairing of Miller and Iguodala is not a good thing though and will hopefully be a short lived project one way or the other.

[geiger]

20 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals and some good perimeter defense would be nice. If you know where we can find a guy like that, let us know.

[geiger]

And for reference, Duane Wade shoots 28% from 3 point land. Kobe Bryant shot 32% from 3's his first 4 years in the league. LeBron? He shoots 32%. So stop with the 3 point shooting already. You have a 20 point, 5 rebound, 5 assist, 2 steal, defensive demon who is only 24 years old. You want to replace someone in the starting line-up who can shoot 3's, replace the 33 year old PG who plays no defense and who will be a free agent after a year.

[LongLiveHinkie]

The most important thing from Iguodala to me isn't 3 point shooting. It is the ability to create his own shot and score with the ball in his hands. He has trouble driving sometimes, but his pull-up jumper has improved. I've said it on here many times, but the mid-ranged pull-up jumper is my favorite shot in the game of basketball. It is the most effective shot in the game if you can master it, and the best 2 guards in the history of the game all have a great one.

One of the keys to getting an effective pull-up jumper relates directly to your ball handling. If the defender doesn't respect your ability to drive or handle the ball, he'll play tighter defense. That gives you less room to pull up on a defender and get the shot off. All the best pull-up jump shooters in the NBA, also have great handles. Defenders respect their handles so much that they play off a little bit more. It gives them room to get the shot off easier.

His has significantly improved since his rookie year, and will continue to IMO. I want to keep Iguodala.

[The Guilty Party]

Out of curiosity... who's talking about 3 pointers? Seems like no one is willing to take up the other side of this supposed issue.

[docwasoverated]

Out of curiosity... who's talking about 3 pointers? Seems like no one is willing to take up the other side of this supposed issue.

exactly tgp..lets all hope that lou will gets some more of millers minutes and that will answer some spacing/shooting issues.

[Sixerscan]

Out of curiosity... who's talking about 3 pointers? Seems like no one is willing to take up the other side of this supposed issue.

uh, well, you're the one that's been pimping Michael Redd recently. If you don't want him because he can shoot the 3 why do you want him, his defense?

[LongLiveHinkie]

Dedicated 76ers Fan would gladly argue for having a 3 point shooter. He's obsessed with it. He'd be willing to trade Andre Miller for Damon Jones just to get one.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Okay, now my position is being ridiculed. We need a shooter in the lineup. A shooter compliments Iggy's game well. A shooter, and/or a scorer. If we swapped Hinrich and Miller, I guarantee that's the difference between the NBA Finals and an Eastern Conference finish.

[LongLiveHinkie]

With Hinrich we'd win about 5-10 games less than with Miller. Shooting isn't the difference at all. Shooting isn't even why we lost in the playoffs against Detroit. They were just more talented.

[The Guilty Party]

Out of curiosity... who's talking about 3 pointers? Seems like no one is willing to take up the other side of this supposed issue.

uh, well, you're the one that's been pimping Michael Redd recently. If you don't want him because he can shoot the 3 why do you want him, his defense?

Ahhhh.... so this thread was specifically made because of a post I made on the fantasy trade board. I feel special.

There have been many conversations about Redd on this and another board and each time, I said that I like Redd on this team because of his ability to shoot from 17 feet out. His contract is terrible and his overall game isn't as good as Iguodala's so I've backed off of that idea. That said, my point has NEVER been about 23+ feet but 17 feet.

Again, having the worst shooting backcourt in the NBA is not something to feel remotely good about.

[Sixerscan]

Out of curiosity... who's talking about 3 pointers? Seems like no one is willing to take up the other side of this supposed issue.

uh, well, you're the one that's been pimping Michael Redd recently. If you don't want him because he can shoot the 3 why do you want him, his defense?

Ahhhh.... so this thread was specifically made because of a post I made on the fantasy trade board. I feel special.

There have been many conversations about Redd on this and another board and each time, I said that I like Redd on this team because of his ability to shoot from 17 feet out. His contract is terrible and his overall game isn't as good as Iguodala's so I've backed off of that idea. That said, my point has NEVER been about 23+ feet but 17 feet.

Again, having the worst shooting backcourt in the NBA is not something to feel remotely good about.

No it wasn't made solely about you it was just odd you would say that considering the discussions we've had the last few days about Redd (Not just in the fantasy trade thread) I've been meaning to post this for a while just never got around to writing it.

[docwasoverated]

Okay, now my position is being ridiculed. We need a shooter in the lineup. A shooter compliments Iggy's game well. A shooter, and/or a scorer. If we swapped Hinrich and Miller, I guarantee that's the difference between the NBA Finals and an Eastern Conference finish.

ah, i would do a miller/ hinrich..oh yeah

[The Sixer Fixer]

Since when does Iguodala have a good handle FOR A SG? I must be watching a different player than some of you. Personally, I think Iguodala has an awful handle (here me out). Yes, he can bring the ball up from time to time and he can create for others, but the key here is he can really ONLY do that when he's not being pressured by the D. Have you seen what happends to him when the double team comes or when he drives into the paint? Absolutely no quickness with the drible (or pass) when the double team comes and gets stripped frequently when he goes in traffic. Those are 2 areas a SG (or soon to be SG) needs to good in (especially when your jumper is far from automatic).

Also, if you dont have a quick first step with the ball, or a quck release, that allows the D to sag down into the paint more and thus makes everyone else on the floor less effective. It's not just about 3's from a SG, but the truth is the farther out you have to defend guys on the floor, the more easy opportunites others will get. I really don't see Iggy being the guy who can do that as I feel he lacks a lot on those two areas.

Yes, he's a good defender compared to some other guys we love to say "trade Andre for...", but Andre is far from an elite defender IMO (above avg, but not great). I actually think he gets a little too much praise in this area. I have watched plenty of guys light him up for him to be considered elite. Heck, he could not stop Prince AT ALL in the playoffs and Prince isn't even that good on offense. That doesn't help when you get shut down on the other side of the floor. Honestly, I'm not overly worried about D from our SG because I think it's a lot more important to have a PF/C combo that are good defenders. That reduces the threat of penetration and thus allows your backcourt guys to focus more on their man to man D as ooppsed to constantly sagging into the lane to help defend. Truthfully, this "style" of D always frustrates me because we always leave guys open for 3 to try and take away the driving to the lane. Yes you play percentages and try to stop the easy bucket, but if you have good post defenders (as I think we do now), you don't need to do that as much.

I'm not trying to bash Iguodala or anything, just trying to be honest about some of his weaknesses I see. I still say S/T him for a Jason Richardson type. I don't want Redd as he makes way too much (salary would not work anyhow so it's a moot point). Ruchardson could be attained though.

[PowerElite]

Dala is the man but where was his defense in the playoffs? Hamilton and Prince both had wonderful series offensively. Prince would qualify as a "defensive demon" not Dala.

[The Guilty Party]

I've now given into the idea of just re-signing Iguodala and going through the first 3 months of the season with the team as is. By the point, we should know if the team needs tweaking or not. If it's determined that Iguodala is doing fine but we need more outside shooting from the PG then perhaps Miller gets moved. If it's determined that Iguodala isn't cutting it as a SG, then I'm sure Ed will either move Iguodala or Thad next summer and obtain a shooting guard.

Who knows... maybe be are just fine as is and need a little time to grow. The only problem with that is that Brand will turn 30 this season so I would say that we really only have this upcoming season to screw around with. This time next summer, we should all feel as though our team is ready to make a run at the Finals.

[The Guilty Party]

Also... WHEN Andre Miller leaves us next summer in order to go play someplace either on the West Coast or in Miami, I think I'll be all for the idea of reuniting father and son by bringing Mike Bibby in as a free agent. He'll be 31 at that point and will possess the veteran leadership this team will still need while also bringing a nice shot with him. I don't know that I've ever been a fan of Bibby's but then again I was never a fan of Miller's before he got here either. I think Bibby is a better fit on this team at this point than Miller is.

[LongLiveHinkie]

I don't think Miller is going to leave. I'd say right now he'll probably be extended.

[The Guilty Party]

I don't think Miller is going to leave. I'd say right now he'll probably be extended.

See, I still have a bad taste in my mouth from when Miller talked to Jody Mac on 950AM. Also, I don't get any comfort in him signing an extension here because we have Brand. Remember, Miller left LA exactly one season after the Clippers acquired Brand... why is now any different?