Trading for Iverson a Mistake?

[Jase]

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/vi ... p?t=439685

What do you guys think?

[DaFan334]

We should have moved Joe Smith's expiring to Indiana for Captain Jack. At the time it would have looked more risky than it does today, but he would have brought alot to this team with Dre at the point and him and JR splitting at the 2.

But we cant change that stuff now, Ill still take Iverson. Always has been and always will be one of my favorite players to watch.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

Eh, I'd call that guy an idiot.

He obviously doesn't follow the Nuggets at all.

He cites scoring per game, in saying it was easier for the Nuggets to score, which is complete BS. The Nuggets were only average at scoring. And he claims AI and Melo melded well? They haven't. Karl didn't even try.

The article would have been a lot better, if it was about the huge mistake it was not firing Karl last off season.

[almost famous]

I don't think there is a team in the league that AI would fit into, unless that team's objective is to sell tickets. AI only took the ball out of Melo's hands. He didn't help Melo like he was suppose to. We'd be better off with Miller, because at least he knew when and especially WHERE to get Melo the ball.

[RRFB]

I didn't really read the whole article, but I wouldn't say the trade was a mistake. Even though it didn't work out the way we all hoped it would, I still think it was a risk worth taking. Under the right system and coach, it could have worked.

[JRmakes_it_rain]

Yes it was a mistake, but nobody can change the way AI plays. Even though it was and always will be a mistake, unless they win a title this year......I applaud the front office for atleast taking a chance.

[PeTBuLL]

Yeah, i said that from the beggining... No leadership, a ballhog / selfish player we have in Carmelo, no need for two!

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Not trying to cause an argument but Iverson was pretty much the only one this year that didn't quit on this team.

[Powder Blue]

You gotta take into account the situation the team was in when the trade went down. Melo had been suspended 15 games and JR 10. The FO pulled the trigger because they felt they needed someone to stop the bleeding during the suspensions. Most Pre-AI Denver fans were pleased with the deal when it went down.

I think the main reason the trade hasn't worked is our coaching or lack there of. You can't say AI doesn't play hard, we knew what we were trading for when we got him. I'd like to see he and Melo make it work this year. With a healthy Nene I think (and hope) it's possible.

[almost famous]

I must confess, I was extremely ecstatic to hear we had a chance at AI. I was waking up at 3am just to check the message boards, and you couldn't pry me from the internet for more than 5 minutes. Still, this isn't the picture I had in mind.

First of all, I thought Miller should have been the last to go. I was hoping Camby was the one involved. Even so, when he came I pictured AI and Melo both demanding double teams and both finding each other. I pictured an unstoppable and endless set of plays with AI, JR, and Melo. Alas, I was disappointed. Karl seemed even more passive than before. He seemed more focused on fixing his relationship with Dre than actually coaching. Melo took a backseat, JR couldn't get on the court anymore, and the defense got worse.

Even with a good coach, AI is almost impossible to build around.

His contract situation is horrible and doesn't allow us to go after guys we need.
He messes up the offensive flow by dribbling out the shot clock.
He forgets his team mates, especially in pressure situations.
He plays a SG in a PG's body, which leads to mismatches almost every game.

[Maf]

really? AI dribbles out of the shot clock... It makes me kinda surprised cause like 90% of Nuggets shots goes within the first eight-ten seconds.

[aicrossover7]

I dont kno why everyon thinks that the Nuggs did horrible this year, or why everyone thinks AI ruined the team. They won 50 freakin games, more then Miller ever did, in the most loaded western conference that we have seen this decade. There were also about 5-6 games tht we shoulda won, like against the bulls, sonics, knicks, kings...and utah where melo missed tht WIDE open shot.and they were only 7 games back of LA. Playin AC over JR and khouba really hurt this team. So trading for AI was not a mistake at all.

[24K_Gold]

the only way ai hurt this team was by how much money he took up on the cap.I can tell by some of yall's post that your more concerned with melo not being a 30pt scoring threat that he has the ability to be.melo has to share the spotlight and the super melo fans(not nuggets fans as far as i'm concerned)don't like it.

we should of kept miller?give us all a f'in break...even though he got melo the ball where he needs it,melo still had his best yr as a pro next to iverson and to top that off the nuggets as a team had their best yr win/lost wise in 20 yrs.in a perfect world miller wouldn't have been in the deal but he was and how things stood before,miller didn't lead this team anywhere other than 1st round losses.
injuries happen so I won't cry about it but good god this team get's hit and hit hard.1st it was kmart and last yr nene and atkins...all 3 are rotation guys who bring something that this team needs.
to top it all off we have drawn the last 2 western conference champs in the 1st rd.getting iverson wasn't a mistake...getting iverson to go with melo an not putting shooters and better perimeter defenders around them was a mistake.

if the nuggets were to add a shooters like korver and defenders like ross(lac) than this team would be scary good...1st tier wc instead of 2nd tier wc that shows glimpses of 1st tier material.

[M.Balla]

No, it wasn't.

The one who wrote that thang saw 3 Nuggets game this year, tops.

And probably I'm the one who thinks this, but as long as Karl is coaching I can't acknowledge that the AI/Melo experiment failed. I still feel that with another piece, resigning JR, a new coach, health and luck this team could win a chip.

[EMB6903]

the only way ai hurt this team was by how much money he took up on the cap.I can tell by some of yall's post that your more concerned with melo not being a 30pt scoring threat that he has the ability to be.melo has to share the spotlight and the super melo fans(not nuggets fans as far as i'm concerned)don't like it.

we should of kept miller?give us all a f'in break...even though he got melo the ball where he needs it,melo still had his best yr as a pro next to iverson and to top that off the nuggets as a team had their best yr win/lost wise in 20 yrs.in a perfect world miller wouldn't have been in the deal but he was and how things stood before,miller didn't lead this team anywhere other than 1st round losses.
injuries happen so I won't cry about it but good god this team get's hit and hit hard.1st it was kmart and last yr nene and atkins...all 3 are rotation guys who bring something that this team needs.
to top it all off we have drawn the last 2 western conference champs in the 1st rd.getting iverson wasn't a mistake...getting iverson to go with melo an not putting shooters and better perimeter defenders around them was a mistake.

if the nuggets were to add a shooters like korver and defenders like ross(lac) than this team would be scary good...1st tier wc instead of 2nd tier wc that shows glimpses of 1st tier material.

that is absolutely insane, every nuggets fan knows melo was on the top of his game BEFORE he got suspended playing aside Andre Miller... after that fight he hasnt been the same since.

[airchibundo507]

AI makes makes this team worse defensively and more flawed offensively.

first off, let's not forget that AI is the most dificult player in the NBA to build around. we just happen to have the worst management in the NBA with no idea of how to build a contending franchise around AI or melo.

defensively, AI can't play point guard...so he's forced to play shooting guard. unfortunately...the small backcourt we are forced to play BECAUSE of iverson happens to get exploited on a nightly basis. AI's gambling hurts this team defensively because most of our players have no idea how to play defense in a team concept. if AI loses on a gamble...temporarily taking him out of the picture...our defense is playing 4-on-5. this squad has no IQ on defense...no idea how to rotate properly...so there's a 90% chance the opposing team is able to capitalize on AI's missed gamble.

offensively...yes AI is a hell of a scorer. but he has no idea how to perform the roles and duty of a point guard for an entire game. regardless of who brings the ball up the floor...AI dominates the ball more than anyone on this squad. his excessive dribbling and shot-forcing has trickled down to the entire squad. I have never seen as much iso ball in my life as I did this last season. ISOLATION BASKETBALL IS NOT MORE EFFECTIVE THAN TEAM BASKETBALL. as testament to this...look at the way our U.S. team flops in the olympics each year. but in team usa's defense...they can at least run a proper pick-and-roll. I have failed to see one pick-and-roll run correctly this last season. and team USA does pound all of their opponents before the bronze medal game: but in their case...isolation ball would be fine and dandy if we had a team assembled of the world's best isolation scorers.

let's not forget that AI has no chemistry with melo to speak of on offense...melo actually sometimes forces shots because of AI, not knowing when he'll get the ball again on offense. any real nugget fan watching games last season could tell that melo was phased out of this offense WAY too many times. AI might be able to rack up 6-7 assists per game...but don't let the statistic fool you into believing he is a playmaker. anyone who dominates the ball on offense as much as AI does for 40+ minutes a night should AT LEAST get six assists per game (see lebron james).

as far as iverson's playmaking is concerned...he is horrible at setting his teammates up for baskets in the paint. I only saw one AI-melo oop in the halfcourt offense this entire season (closing minutes of blowout game). he is a drive-and-kick playmaker out of default. he drives to the basket looking to get a shot off. if he can't get off a clean look...he floats underneath the basket and kicks out to our perimeter shooters who might be open due to the defense collapsing on Ai's penetration. kicking out to our shooters is just a bail out for iverson. but the reason AI has been a lot more successful with our second unit this season is because our shooters JR, klieza, and najera all came off the bench.

surround AI and melo with the worst cast of off-ball shooters/finishers in the league (carter, martin, camby) and this team is screwed.

[Ewingfan]

it was the right move at the right time. No way was it a mistake. The Nuggets won 50 games last year and if not for Karl starting A.C they would have probably won more. I agree about all the things people say about A.I 's deficiency his defense his lack of playmaking. I still think that Karl is not the right coach for this team. The only good thing that Karl figured out was to make sure both A.I and Carmelo gets their shots. Like I said A.I is my favorite player and i been following since his days in Georgetown. He's not going to change. He should have come here and took less shots. This is supposed to be Carmelo's team. Iverson should not be leading the team in scoring. He doesnt know how to play any other way though. I have no problem with Denver cutting their ties with him after the year. 50 games is not a mistake though. Last year they lost to the Nba champ spurs in the first round. This year they got swept by the NBA finals Lakers. There is no shame in losing to those teams. Its the way they lost. Detroit and Phoenix got it right. They fired the coaches. Detroit loses in the conference finals in 6 games and Flip gets fired. Phoenix loses in the first round to the defending champs and D'antoni loses his job. Denver gets swept and were thoroughly embarassed in the first round and KARL KEEPS HIS JOB.

YOU TELL ME WHATS THE BIGGER MISTAKE.

[24K_Gold]

you show me another shooting guard that can avg 7.5 ast or whatever it was and then talk to me about playmaking .hell 2 of the best pg in the game(paul,nash)make their living off of drive and kicks so tell me where the fault is in that bundo.it's a matter of all 3 of theses guys can break any defense down and get into the lane at will.come on bundo you bring up the defense but fail to point out which parts of the defense the nuggets get killed at but yet you drop the blame on iverson taking a gamble maybe 2-3 times a game.

i watch the games just like you(every single game at that)and denver suck because of 1.pick and roll defense,2.transition defense,3.slow rotations/closeouts on 3pt shooters.i give my man a full season of how melo has had his best yr as a pro and he gives me a 16 game stretch pre ny fight.i could have sworn that miller was with melo the previous yrs.
i'm tired of melo and iverson being the scapegoats when the front office didn't even try to put the right players around them.that doesn't excuse either player for their porous defense but they need shooters and decent defenders around them and denver has been one of the worst 3pt shooting teams even before we got iverson.
then add in a coach who doesn't really do any coaching during the game and you get a 50 win team that gets bounced in the 1st rd.

[airchibundo507]

you show me another shooting guard that can avg 7.5 ast or whatever it was and then talk to me about playmaking .hell 2 of the best pg in the game(paul,nash)make their living off of drive and kicks so tell me where the fault is in that bundo.it's a matter of all 3 of theses guys can break any defense down and get into the lane at will.come on bundo you bring up the defense but fail to point out which parts of the defense the nuggets get killed at but yet you drop the blame on iverson taking a gamble maybe 2-3 times a game.

i watch the games just like you(every single game at that)and denver suck because of 1.pick and roll defense,2.transition defense,3.slow rotations/closeouts on 3pt shooters.i give my man a full season of how melo has had his best yr as a pro and he gives me a 16 game stretch pre ny fight.i could have sworn that miller was with melo the previous yrs.
i'm tired of melo and iverson being the scapegoats when the front office didn't even try to put the right players around them.that doesn't excuse either player for their porous defense but they need shooters and decent defenders around them and denver has been one of the worst 3pt shooting teams even before we got iverson.
then add in a coach who doesn't really do any coaching during the game and you get a 50 win team that gets bounced in the 1st rd.

7.5 apg??? Y A W N ...

paul and nash understand the simple concept of correctly running a pick-and-roll. paul and nash routinely set up their teammates for baskets whether on the perimeter, in the paint, or in transition. paul and nash don't look for their shots...they look for the pass first. that's why their assists are justified in my mind.

you wanna know why I hate AI? I remember clear and simple a transition opportunity we had in the LAL series. 2 on 1. AI and Melo vs one laker defender. AI has the ball...and instead of passing to melo for a wide open dunk, plows right into the defender for an offensive foul. if that doesn't summarize AI's selfishness...I don't know what will.

do I believe a contending franchise can be built around both AI and Melo? yes. the nuggets took a step in the right direction with blake on the roster--a PG who could spread the floor, who could actually run the offense, and properly defer the ball to both AI and Melo. Melo wasn't phased out of the offense half as much as he is now...and God forbid blake even consistently set melo up for baskets in the paint...even the legendary alley-oop pass! we haven't see one of those in denver in centuries!

our defense sucked because of the mismatches on the floor, and then the inability to rotate. rotation has ALWAYS been a problem in denver. watching the games from the DEN-SA postseason...this team couldn't rotate worth a lick...but at least melo could match up with bowen, nene could match up with duncan, camby could match up with oberto, etc. but instead this year...I find myself watching k-mart ATTEMPTING to match up with kobe! iverson ATTEMPTING to take on radmonovic in the post! and whenever camby tries to help on defense...this pitiful team's rotation problems re-emerge and the lakers end up with either wide open lay-ups or wide open three-pointers.

[ambiglight]

It wasnt a mistake to trade for AI.

But just about everything else denver did after the trade was a mistake. Not resigning boykins, then trading for blake w/ no intention to resign him, picking up chucky atkins, benching JR and then playing him less than twenty minutes a game, starting AC, directing Camby to camp on the perimeter, not trading najera and klieza for artest and then letting najera go anyway.

These are just the obvious ones in my opinion. You can make an argument for firing Karl, but the obvious mistakes are all of the above.

The trade for AI was a good move but the follow through sucked. If they werent going to pick up a good point guard, they should have shifted AI to the point and let JR develop as a shooting guard.

As for AIs deficiencies, they were pretty irrelevant to why this team was losing.His skills more than made up for those deficiencies and he was easily the most consistent and best player on this team the past season. Without him, the team would have been lucky to break forty.