Golden Age ATL -- CONFERENCE FINALS

[penbeast0]

POSTED BY WARSPITE

Kings vs Celtics

Tropics vs Rockets


Final Four writeups are due by noon Sunday Est. Voteing will begin at that time. 5 votes will decide a winner. The Finals writeups will be due by Monday noon Est. All writeups are to be in this thread.

GMs lets get this wrapped up
voters I need you to take 2 mins on Sunday and vote. Theres 16 Gms I would like to see as many votes as possible.

[penbeast0]

POSTED BY BALLER24

Sacramento Kings v Boston Celtics

Starting 5:
Paul
Drexler
Prince
Sampson
Hakeem

Bench:
Harper
Bell
Aguirre
Brown
Davis


Offense:

My offensive scheme will run through my center, Hakeem Olajuwon. The Celtics have Eaton on Hakeem, and I really don’t think that is going to be enough to stop him. In head 2 head meetings Hakeem simply outplays Eaton. Even though Eaton is a terrific defender, Hakeem averages 24pts, 12reb, 2.6stl, 4.0blk on 47% shooting; now I know the Celtics have peak Eaton from 83-85, but Hakeem and him played in 86, and Hakeem still outplayed him by a mile, but again that wasn’t even peak 2 DPOY, MVP 2 Finals MVP Hakeem, who dominated the likes of Ewing, Drob, and outplayed young Shaq. I think I have the advantage here, and once again I can see Hakeem going for 40+ points, the Kings will easily look to exploit this match up, and if Drob and Ewing couldn’t stop him in his 2 year peak, than I really don’t think there is much Eaton can do. Sampson is going to be the 2nd option in the front court. Looking at head 2 head meeting before Sampson’s career ending injury, Sampson played great against Buck. As good as a defensive player Buck is, Sampson still averaged his regular stats, including some above average games against him. Sampson has a HUGE height advantage against Buck, and will likely use that to outplay him. Sampson enjoys using dribble penetration to get shots created for him, and likes to play about 10-12 ft out from the basket to take the attention away from Hakeem (who this time has a match up that he can dominate against). Sampson will be the 2nd / 3rd scoring option for this team on the offensive end behind Hakeem. Buck was a great post man to man defender, but this time he will have his work cut out for him guarding Sampson who handles the ball a lot more then playing the post game. My probably 2nd / 3rd scoring option on offense will likely be Drexler, Clyde is being guarded by a defender that is much smaller then him, and really won’t be able to affect Drexler’s game. In the 1990 finals both of these guys met, and it was a matchup that went in Drexler’s way easily. Drexler averaged 26pts, 8reb, 6ast, on 54% shooting!!! This match up will be exploited as he will be my first option on the perimeter. Drexler will likely get doubled, if not then Dumars will have his hands full the entire game, but if doubled Drexler is a terrific player passing out of the double team, and as he goes and attacks to the hoop, guys like Sampson and Hakeem will be all but ready to accept his pass. Chris Paul is being guarded by the best point guard of all time, where he will have his hands full. But Paul is a small QUICK little guard, and I don’t think Magic posses the lateral quickness to stop Paul. Isaiah Thomas did a very good job against Magic on the offensive end as he scored a mouth opening 25 points in a third quarter against Magic, who’s defense isn’t considered to be that great. Thomas and Paul have very similar games, as both use dribble penetration and know what to do with the ball. I have no doubt that Paul will have a good game on the offensive end. Tayshun Prince is being guarded by a very weak defender in Nique, I don’t think he will have a problem scoring the ball or even get involved on the offensive end, Nique possess a lot of talent, but defense is defiantly not one of them.

Defense:

Defensively the Kings have the advantage inside IMO using Hakeem and Sampson who are terrific defenders, and help defenders. My match ups on defense are going to be a little switched up. Since Buck is the better offensive player between Eaton and him, I’m putting Hakeem on Buck, while Sampson on Eaton. Hakeem should really stop Buck’s game as he was a good post player, I don’t think he will have an easy time scoring on Hakeem. I’m not worried about Eaton as on the offensive end he only got 5-6 points, while only shooting around the mid 40% mark. Drexler will be put on Magic as he is biggest player and would keep up with him, but this being said I really don’t have anyone on my team to stop Magic. Magic is also turnover prone, I think this will help Drexler especially who is a very efficient ball handler and scorer. Paul will be put on Dumars, I think this is going to be a better matchup, like I said CP3 is one of the present leagues best at getting steals, and I don’t think Dumars post up game will be effective against Paul who basically is the same size. Prince will be put on the best scorer on the team, which is Nique. This is an interesting match up, as one player is strictly offense driven while the other is strictly defense driven. Nique was one of the best offensive players on the planet during his time, probably the best scorer behind MJ himself during his era, but he often lacked defense. On the defensive end, Prince will have his hands full, BUT saying that I don’t think Nique will tear Prince up on the offensive end, as Prince himself is a terrific defender, and will keep up with Nique using his speed and length. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nique is even bothered by this. Nique will do what he does, but he will be limited, especially with Prince on him.

Intangibles:

Rebounding: The Kings will look to get EVERY rebound on the court, I think I have the advantage over the Celtics in this departments as the front court of the Celtics isn’t very strong rebounding the ball. This is an advantage that the Kings will look to take.

Getting to the foul line: All of my players have the ability to get to the foul line, I don’t think this is going to be a problem. My front court players are both going to be a handful for the Celtics to defend, and I think this will cause double teams that will force my players to get to the line. Drexler and Paul are both players that also get to the line quiet often; I think I’ll use this as an advantage to beat the Celtics.

Bench: The Celtics have a very talented bench, but again this bench lacks defense where I think I’ll take advantage of on the offensive end. The Kings bench has defense which will come very useful when guarding the Celtics. Aguirre is the first option on offense, and will likely look to score at will, he is also a VERY efficient scorer. Raja Bell will be open for the 3 pt shot, and my frontcourt players will be ready to hustle, play defense, and just do the small things. Derek Harper is another player that will come up big on defense, he will come in at times to help Drexler defend Magic, who will be handful no matter what.

[Kosta]

C-Mark Eaton
PF-Buck Williams
SF-Dominique Wilkins
SG-Joe Dumars
PG-Magic Johnson

Bench: Rik Smits, Chris Webber, Kenyon Martin, Rip Hamilton, Ron Harper.

vs



C-Hakeem Olajuwon
PF-Ralph Sampson
SF-Tayshaun Prince
SG-Clyde Drexler
PG-Chris Paul

Bench: Dale Davis, P.J Brown, Mark Aguirre, Raja Bell, Derek Harper.

Congrats to Baller for making it this far, I had your team pegged on my radar as far as being one of the tougher beats in this game, so I respect your squad. Too bad only one will prevail to the finals.

I'll start off with a summary of what I see when I look at these two teams. With the Kings I see a great offensive/defensive frontcourt, and I see a backcourt that has good scoring and playmaking, the Kings also have good all around team defense. So yes, the Kings really don't have any real weaknesses. As for the Celtics, they don't have the offensive power of the Kings up front, but they have at least equal, probably better defense at the C/PF positions. However, simply you give the edge to the Kings in the frontcourt easily because of Dream. But, since we're talking forward positions we need to talk about 'Nique, who the Kings have NO answer for and lets be honest, Tayshaun Prince is no answer, if he couldn't defend Paul Pierce in this years finals, how much worse does he fare against a prime mid 80's 30 ppg Wilkins? When you take into account the massive edge the Celtics have at the SF position, it's not inconceivable to think that when comparing all 3 forward positions that the Kings don't have the big scoring or defensive edge that you'd think with Dream. When you factor in Eaton and Buck's outstanding defense and 'Nique's big offensive edge on Prince, the defense and offense up front just about evens itself out. So we take out Dream's and 'Nique huge offensive edges on each others opponent, Dream has about a 19 point advantage on Eaton, while 'Nique has a 16 point advantage on Prince. Buck and Sampson pretty much cancel each other out. (Sampson won't get enough touches to score 20 per unless he takes shots away from Hakeem). When it comes down to it, I'll take my chances on defensive player of the year Eaton guarding Olajuwon over Tayshaun Prince trying to guard 'Nique. Moving on to the backcourt, where the Celtics truly can boast of having the edge while repping 5 time champ Magic and 2 time champ Dumars against a prime Drexler, and an inexperienced Chris Paul, who's is going to get majorly outplayed with whoever he's matched up with, whether it be Dumars or Magic, it won't be close. If Tony Parker can go off on him for an entire playoff series, I don't see how he stops far superior players. And Magic, even with Drexler matched up against him, you know he's going to win that match-up and by a fairly large margin.

Defensively the Celtcs will have:

Eaton on Hakeem with occasional help on doubles from Buck. (Kings lack outside shooting, Paul, Prince, nor Drexler are major threats from deep)
Buck on Sampson (Size is a question here, but Buck has the physicality and strength to keep Sampson out of the post)
'Nique on Prince (not much worry about 'Nique's defense against an average offensive player in Prince)
Dumars on Drexler
Magic on Paul

Drexler matched up with Dumars shot only 45% in 20 games. Expect those numbers to drop even more vs a playoff finals MVP clutch Dumars. Paul could give Magic some trouble because of his speed, but Magic was pretty quick himself, if any trouble were to arise, Dumars could switch on Paul and Magic on Drexler at different times in the game.

Offensively it's no secret the Celtics will try to get the Kings into a run and gun pace, if successful it's party over for the Kings, you can't beat Magic in that style. I don't see the great transition defense of the Kings here, nor will they dominate the offensive glass, Buck being the best rebounder on either side, 'Nique is better than Prince and Magic is better than Drexler and Paul. Eaton's shot blocking should help trigger the transition opportunities as well. 'Nique will post up the skinny Prince as will Magic post up on the smaller Drexler. Buck will go at Sampson with his bang around style in the post.

Off the bench, I don't see either bench influencing the outcome here, at least not significantly. The Celtcs are better up front with Smits/Webber vs Davis/Brown, however the Kings duo does provide more defense and rebounding. In the backcourt it's pretty even with Hamilton having a big edge on Raja and Derek Harper over Ron Harper. The Celtics bench provides more leadership and experience with Harper's 2 rings and Hamilton's constant finals appearances.

I like Magic's leadership and presence over Dream, and certainly Dumars has more leadership then any other King. I'd personally take Magic and Dumars over Olajuwon/Drexler when comparing intangibles. Each owning a Finals MVP.

One of the two best players here will decide this series IMO, while the Celtics have two great defensive players defending Dream, who exactly do the Kings have to guard Magic? Clyde Drexler, he isn't exactly known for his defense. Derek Harper will get some play off the bench as well, but he's no Dumars/D.J/Pippen, besides, he won't be playing big minutes. As for Drexler again, you don't want your second best offensive threat chasing around the other teams best player (in this case one of the greatest off all time) all game. You have to question how much Drexler will have left on the offensive end against Dumars. And Prince while being a solid defender, is out of his league here trying to defend a prime Wilkins all by himself. The Celtics are well equipped against the Kings big guns, the Kings can't say the same.

[Kosta]

HalfTime rebuttal:

My offensive scheme will run through my center, Hakeem Olajuwon. The Celtics have Eaton on Hakeem, and I really don’t think that is going to be enough to stop him. In head 2 head meetings Hakeem simply outplays Eaton. Even though Eaton is a terrific defender, Hakeem averages 24pts, 12reb, 2.6stl, 4.0blk on 47% shooting.

I'll take 47% over the rebounds and blocks, Hakeem was 53% in his 2 year peak, so this shows a 6% drop off vs Eaton, that's a good thing. The Kings can't win with Dream shooting that kind of percentage. The only time they met up in a playoff series Olajuwon put up 21 points on 48% shooting while the Jazz defeated the Rockets in 5. Obviously not a prime Olajuwon, but only evidence I can show here for playoff games. Over 35 head to head games over their careers, Olajuwon put up only 47% shooting.

Sampson played great against Buck. As good as a defensive player Buck is, Sampson still averaged his regular stats, including some above average games against him. Sampson has a HUGE height advantage against Buck, and will likely use that to outplay him.

Ah, not quite. According to basketball reference Sampson put up 11 and 6 on 49% shooting vs Buck in 8 games. Buck put up his usual numbers though, 15 and 11 on 53% shooting. No head to head stats are available before '86 though.

Clyde is being guarded by a defender that is much smaller then him, and really won’t be able to affect Drexler’s game. In the 1990 finals both of these guys met, and it was a matchup that went in Drexler’s way easily. Drexler averaged 26pts, 8reb, 6ast, on 54% shooting!!! This match up will be exploited as he will be my first option on the perimeter.

One of the best perimeter defenders of all time won't have much effect on Drexler? Gotta disagree, and I don't think bringing up those '90 finals stats helps your cause since Drexler and his Blazers got knocked off in 5 games. You can't exploit Joe Dumars on either end of the floor and that's fact.

Drexler will likely get doubled,

Not in the Celtics game plan, the Celtics would rather have Drexler try to take over and take away shots from Hakeem and Sampson.

Isaiah Thomas did a very good job against Magic on the offensive end as he scored a mouth opening 25 points in a third quarter against Magic, who’s defense isn’t considered to be that great. Thomas and Paul have very similar games.

It'd great and all if the Kings had CP3 from only this season, but that's not the case, they also have an inexperienced CP3 from the '06-'07 seasons who only put up 17 points on 44% shooting. CP3 is not the offensive scorer Isiah Thomas was, when did you ever see Paul go off for 20 in a quarter? He takes over games more with his play-making, getting other guys involved with his penetration and on the fast break. Magic won't have a cakewalk here defending him, but he's a very smart defensive player and does have enough speed to stay with Paul.

Tayshun Prince is being guarded by a very weak defender in Nique, I don’t think he will have a problem scoring the ball or even get involved on the offensive end, Nique possess a lot of talent, but defense is defiantly not one of them.

Prince is a 14 point scorer who at times comes up clutch, that's all you're going to get from him on the offensive end in this game. With Olajuwon/Sampson and Drexler taking up all the shots and Paul getting the left overs, Prince will be lucky to even get enough shots to score in double digits.

Defensively the Kings have the advantage inside IMO using Hakeem and Sampson who are terrific defenders, and help defenders.

I think it's close, with Eaton's defensive credentials and Buck having a clear edge over Sampson, I think the Celtics actually might be better overall up front. Depends on how much better you think Olajuwon is over Eaton in comparison to Buck over Sampson. It's close. However, I'd understand if you'd take the Kings simply because they hold the best defensive player in Olajuwon.

Magic is also turnover prone

Magic is turnover prone? Between '86-'88 he averaged over 12 assists on 3.75 turnovers. That's better than 3:1 and consider how fast paced those Lakers teams were.

Paul will be put on Dumars, I think this is going to be a better matchup, like I said CP3 is one of the present leagues best at getting steals, and I don’t think Dumars post up game will be effective against Paul who basically is the same size.

Dumars does have 3 inches and 15 pounds on him, so I don't think Paul will bother Dumars much if he wants to post up. Paul should worry about Dumars outsmarting him and beating him to his sweet spots on the floor.

Prince will be put on the best scorer on the team, which is Nique. This is an interesting match up, as one player is strictly offense driven while the other is strictly defense driven. Nique was one of the best offensive players on the planet during his time, probably the best scorer behind MJ himself during his era, but he often lacked defense. On the defensive end, Prince will have his hands full, BUT saying that I don’t think Nique will tear Prince up on the offensive end, as Prince himself is a terrific defender, and will keep up with Nique using his speed and length. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nique is even bothered by this. Nique will do what he does, but he will be limited, especially with Prince on him.

So you go from calling 'Nique one of the best best scorers of his time and second only to M.J and then go on to say how Prince will somehow find a way to limit him? Prince? The same Prince who got lit up by Paul Pierce? Not that Prince, because it's not happening. Not unless he gets a lot of help, he's the civilian and 'Nique is the sniper, in single coverage 'Nique will make his target pay.

Rebounding: The Kings will look to get EVERY rebound on the court, I think I have the advantage over the Celtics in this departments as the front court of the Celtics isn’t very strong rebounding the ball. This is an advantage that the Kings will look to take.

Other than Hakeem over Eaton, which when you look at the per minute rebounding rate, it's not that big of an edge. Buck is without a doubt that best forward rebounder in this game, and Dominique the second best just edging out Drexler. Who accounts for Magic?

[Baller 24]

Kings will start and have their rebuttal in by 6 PM ET.

[Warspite]

Flint Tropics vs Houston Rockets

DRob, Willis, King, Ellis, Kidd
Ewing, Oakley, Bowen, TMac, Thomas


Wow what a matchup... The Tropics are pretty honored to be in the Final Four along with the Rockets. both of our teams started drafting in the 8th and 10th pick. No 1st class superstars just solid C and PG play around def PFs and a scoring wing player.

No disrespect to Ewing but for the Tropics this is the easiest C matchup of the tourney. After playing Moses and Shaq facing Ewing is a bit more mangable. The Tropics will stay with Willis and Laimbeer taking turns at Ewing in the 1st half useing there fouls and allowing DRob to patrol the paint. Oakley will have less success in this game than any other because of DRobs ability to rotate back to him and his length adv. When DRob is guarding Ewing Oakley wont see as many open shots and wont be left alone by Willis nearly enough.

The Tropics hold a sizeable reb adv in the frontcourt and should have a very clear adv and be able to get out and run the break on the slower footed Rockets. Willis is 15rpg, DRob 12rpg and then Laimbeer is a 12rpg player coming off the bench. All of whom are equal or superior to Oakley and Ewing. There is no doubt this is the biggest Frontcourt the Rockets have faced and there ability to out hustle and out physical opponets will be sorely tested by a quick, wide and down right mean Tropics frontcourt. The mental toughness needed to play vs Laimbeer and DRob will be at an all time high. One who is the master of mind games and the other simply can do things that 7fters arent supposed to be able to do.

Isiah is an awsome PG whos #1 weakness is shot selection and his FG %. Kidds role is to simply to help keep him out of the lane and let him shoot those 21ft jump shots he falls in love with from time to time. I dont beleive Isiah ever faced a PG like Kidd outside of Magic (well maybe he did in practice). Kidd is taller, bigger, stronger and nearly as quick. Its true Zeke will outscore Kidd but will he outplay him? If Kidd can keep his TOs down and make good plays in transistion I like the Tropics chances. Every 42% FGA Isiah takes with Kidd in his face is small victory and allows the better FG% scorers of the Tropics to have a bigger impact on the game. TMac and Eillis are both players who are 3rd options and will look to score in transition and out of the offense. TMac will be forced to take on a bigger role than previously and will have to create offense for himself. TMac is capable of doing so but to this point hasnt on this ROckets team. Ellis will still be shooting those sweet open jumpers as hes doubled off of.

On offense The Tropics are still playing Pick and Roll with Kidd and DRob and Pick and Pop with Laimbeer. This is a very successfull formula with the very fast Kidd/DRob and outside shooting Laimbeer. It also allows the Tropics bigmen to physicaly punish the slight Isiah and try to take him out of his game. The Tropics are not going to go away from the bread and butter and automatic scoring that is Bernard King and Adrian Dantley. Bowen might be a great wing defender but how well can he gaurd these 2 Hofers (Kings omission from the HoF is there error not mine). These 2 draw fouls at such a rate and love to play physical players that I dont believe Bowen is going to be the player that slows down these guys. King and Dantley are used to scoring 30pts and having guard the Niques, Englishes, Aguirres, Birds and DrJs. Bowen is nothing close to these guys so whatever effect he might have on King is negated by the fact that King gets to take many more plays off on defense having to guard Bowen. King and Dantleys impact simply cannot discounted by the presence of Bowen. These are 2 players with offensive stats that are with the best of all time

Code: Select all

83-84 NYK 77 76 34.6 .572 .000 .779 1.60 3.50 5.10 2.1 .97 .22 2.56 3.50 26.3
 84-85 NYK 55 55 37.5 .530 .100 .772 2.10 3.70 5.80 3.7 1.29 .27 3.71 3.50 32.9


81-82 UTA 81 81 39.8 .570 .333 .792 2.90 3.50 6.30 4.0 1.17 .17 3.69 3.10 30.3
 82-83 UTA 22 22 40.3 .580 .000 .847 2.60 3.70 6.40 4.8 .91 .00 3.68 2.80 30.7

90-91 CHI 82 82 37.0 .539 .312 .851 1.40 4.60 6.00 5.5 2.72 1.01 2.46 2.80 31.5
 91-92 CHI 80 80 38.8 .519 .270 .832 1.10 5.30 6.40 6.1 2.28 .94 2.50 2.50 30.1


The 1st 2 players are King and Dantley while the 3rd is MJ. I dont believe Bowen would have a bigger impact on King/Dantley than he would on MJ and maybe he would have less because Bowen is a much better defender facing up than in the low post. Dantley shooting 57% while King shoots 55%. They are almost automatic.


In conclusion the Tropics want to use there Reb adv to get easy baskets on the break to compliment the high FG% SFs and to force the Rockets to make tough shots at a higher FG% constantly putting pressure on Isiah and Ewing to make tougher and tougher contested shots. The Tropics want to shoot 52-55% from the field and the Rockets will either need to play faster to get more possesions or need to have a great shooting night. If the Rockest play faster they will begin playing into the hands of the Tropics and with more TOs will allow the Tropics to score more easy baskets. The Rockets are great team with a lead but can they comeback and play within there offense or will they have Isiah and Tmac both try to play 1vs5 and play into the teeth of the Tropics defense. Both players have had awsome comebacks but the odds of that happening again are remote. FYI when Isiah did have his great comeback King scored 40pts including the game winning basket. An offenseive putback dunk jumping over 2 players.

[TMACFORMVP]

Ughhh, my whole writeup got deleted, just because my computer turned off

First off I'd like to say Warspite you have built a TERRIFIC squad and one that was definitely worthy of advancing this far. It was real cool talking bball with you throughout this competition and knew if we wanted to get where we were at, we'd have to face each other sometime. Honestly and sincerely may the best team win.

Flint Topics

C David Robinson/// Bill Laimbeer
PF Kevin Willis/// Tom Chambers
SF Bernard King/// Adrian Dantley
SG Dale Ellis///Danny Ainge
PG Jason Kidd/// Doc Rivers

Houston Rockets

C Patrick Ewing///Emeka Okafor
PF Charles Oakley///Dan Roundfield
SF Bruce Bowen///Robert Horry
SG Tracy McGrady///Manu Ginobili
PG Isiah Thomas///John Starks

Like, others have done, I don't have as much time as before, so I'm gonna skip the position by position matchup, and just compare the real qualities that win games. A few things hat stick out in terms of strengths/weaknesses for both side are:

Defense
Robinson has the edge over Ewing (though it's not to an edge one would think), while Oakley has the edge over Willis who was never known for his defense while Oakley made his career out of playing tough hard and physical defense. On the perimeter is where I feel the Rockets pull away, neither Ellis or King were known for their defensive prowress while McGrady is better than his counterpart and Bowen is one of the best defensive perimeter players to have ever played the game. Kidd has the edge over Isiah, but considering Isiah is a much more prolific scorer on MUCH more efficient shooting and Kidd has shown some trouble guarding quicker PG's, I honestly feel a player of Isiah's caliber won't be affected.

I just feel the Rockets have many more options to throw at the Tropics scorers than the Tropics have against the Rockets. Bowen will be on King, with Oakley at times to cut off more of their post game. Not to mention Isiah will be coming to help at every chance considering he can sag off Kidd since he's been one of the most inefficient PG's to have ever played (under 40% from the field and 32% from three), and he wasn't a threat like Isiah to step in and hit a pull up mid-ranger. The Tropics have nobody on the perimeter that can guard McGrady. Ellis, King, Ainge won't do anything to stop his game, and he should be able to get whatever he wants. King got to the line, but no more than what Bowen has faced with guys like Kobe, Wade and even McGrady who actually has a higher rate at getting to the line than Bernard does.

Ewing and Robinson in this matchup would be as much a wash as there would be (considering this is also younger D-Rob.) In their head to head meetings from 90-94 (which is essentially the years we are both using):

Robinson: 19.2 points/7.8 rebounds/2.8 assists/3.4 blocks on 51%
Ewing: 25.1 points/11.7 rebounds/2.2 assists/4.0 blocks on 48%

No matter what anybody could say, those stats are pretty telling. Then Kidd has shown in the past, he's been less effective against the quicker PG's and Isiah will most definitely give him a handful. He had a great mid-range shot and talking about inefficiency (when he was rather efficient for a higher volume scorer--46%) with Isiah is almost laughable considering Kidd doesn't wreck havoc in the defense by going to the rim and finishing or even consistently knocking down an open jump shot, which again lets Isiah be able to sag off and go help on King.

My bench is also better defensively as nobody are holes on that end of the floor compared to the Tropics where Dantley, Chambers and Ainge were never known for their defensive intensity.

I feel I have the considerable edge defensively.

Rebounding
Tropics have the slight edge here, but my main argument will be towards it won't be to the edge some people may think when looking at the raw stats. Robinson nor Willis ever played with another rebounder of their caliber. Both Ewing and Oakley have proven they can get a high amount of rebounds while playing on the same team. Their rebound rates are similar and what's funny is from 1990-1994, Ewing out-rebounded Robinson every time and by a considerable margin (as shown in the stats above nearly 11.7 to 7.8, that's a HUGE edge). Roundfield and Lambieer are both 12+ rebounders per game off the bench while Okafor is much better rebounder than Chambers. The only reason the Tropics have the edge in rebounding is because of Kidd's superior rebounding, but again he's never played on GREAT rebounding teams, so I don't think it'll be too much of an edge.

You could even see a more tougher lineup with Oakley guarding King (at times) with Roundfield at PF, and that's nearly three 12 rebound per game players.

Tropics have the slightest of slight edge in rebounding but it's not to an edge where it'll decide the outcome of the game and in my honest opinion with the telling stats of Ewing-Robinson, the rebounding edge is a WASH.

Passing/Play-Making
Ewing and Robinson are literally identical in this aspect, if not a slight edge to Ewing and the same could be said for the Oakley-Willis and King-Bowen matchup. Isiah and Kidd is very similar, but Isiah has the slight edge accounting for everything (the numbers definitely point towards Isiah's favor) but McGrady has a large edge over Ellis. I'd think Houston has the advantage here.

Bench
The Tropics definitely have the talent and offensive edge, but I'm really not sure if they can out-produce what the Rocket bench brings overall. I don't see the use in using Dantley's stats considering he won't get nearly the minutes, nor the touches in the post to duplicate those eye popping stats. There are three below average defensive players in the lineup, so my bench defensively should already definitely have that edge by a considerable matchup. Then considering players like Dantley and Chambers were accustomed to playing nearly 40 minutes per game and each getting over 19-20 shot attempts per game (and in Dantley's case, as much touches as anybody in this competition) not only will their production drop dramatically it could cause problems in terms of chemistry because of lack of playing time. And the more you'd play either of them, your also giving up alot on the defensive end. Guys like Ginobili and Starks were both 6MOY, Roundfield was never as high a minute player and true professional and same with guys like Horry and Okafor. My bench is better all around, makes more than one side of the ball contribution and more proven in terms of producing of the bench.

Overall, the Rockets are a comparable offensive team (three of the top 5 scorers in the starting lineup), comparable bench and rebounding team, but pull away being better passing and a considerably better defensive team that has a better game-plan designed to stop the Tropics main scorers than the Tropics game plan to stop mine. Overall the stronger defense and all around game with comparable offensive game should prevail.

[tkb]

Vote: Kings and Rockets.

[penbeast0]

Vote: Kings and Tropics

[Baller 24]

Rebuttal time:

I'll take 47% over the rebounds and blocks, Hakeem was 53% in his 2 year peak, so this shows a 6% drop off vs Eaton, that's a good thing. The Kings can't win with Dream shooting that kind of percentage. The only time they met up in a playoff series Olajuwon put up 21 points on 48% shooting while the Jazz defeated the Rockets in 5. Obviously not a prime Olajuwon, but only evidence I can show here for playoff games. Over 35 head to head games over their careers, Olajuwon put up only 47% shooting.

But Eaton never played full time mins against MVP/Finals MVP/DPOY Hakeem. Like I said hes played much better defenders then Eaton against players like David Robinson, and Patrick Ewing, who he flat out dominated. Hakeem shot up 47%, but still put up 25pts during head to head matchups, while Eaton put up 6? 7? The difference between that is soo HUGE. With Eaton on the floor offensivly the Celtics are basically playing 4 on 5 basketball, due to his inability to contribute on the offensive end. And don't get me started on someone that only gets 6-7pts, averages in the mid 40% shooting the ball, which is just very inefficient, if he is that bad on offense he shouldn't be taking that many shots. This especially hurts the Celtics, its like I'm playing a 4 on 5 game, and this time your messing with the wrong person to play 4 on 5 (Hakeem).

Ah, not quite. According to basketball reference Sampson put up 11 and 6 on 49% shooting vs Buck in 8 games. Buck put up his usual numbers though, 15 and 11 on 53% shooting. No head to head stats are available before '86 though.

This is true, BUT those aren't the years of Sampson I'm using. I'm using his 20 pt, 10 reb, 50% shooting years where he was on his way to make a big name for himself. Offensively the Kings front court blows away the Celtics front court. especially with a 20 pt scorer in Sampson, pair that up with Hakeem who will likely go for 20+ which means the Kings front court will simply dominate the Celtics front court offensivly.

One of the best perimeter defenders of all time won't have much effect on Drexler? Gotta disagree, and I don't think bringing up those '90 finals stats helps your cause since Drexler and his Blazers got knocked off in 5 games. You can't exploit Joe Dumars on either end of the floor and that's fact.

But hes also guarding one of the most efficient all around SG of all time. And no I really don't think he will have any effect, especially after going on the big stage against Drexler and letting Drexler score 26 pts on 54% shooting. They did lose that series in 5 games, but that wasn't Drexlers fault, it was because of guys like Terry Porter(.393), Clifford Robinson( .250), Buck Williams(.465) and Drazen Petrovic(.357). Dumars on the other hand being guarded by Drexler did a horrible 20 pts on 41% shooting. But letting Drexler average 26pts on 54% is unbelievable and not only will Drexler exploit this but he did for a fact in the 1990 finals.

It'd great and all if the Kings had CP3 from only this season, but that's not the case, they also have an inexperienced CP3 from the '06-'07 seasons who only put up 17 points on 44% shooting. CP3 is not the offensive scorer Isiah Thomas was, when did you ever see Paul go off for 20 in a quarter? He takes over games more with his play-making, getting other guys involved with his penetration and on the fast break. Magic won't have a cakewalk here defending him, but he's a very smart defensive player and does have enough speed to stay with Paul.

Paul also still averaged 19 pts 10 ast, on 45% shooting if you combine both seasons together. Paul was also accountable for 25 winshares that year but only 6 loses. He was good that year to, but just not as good as the year after. But that being said it really isn't THAT big of a drop off, Paul's an excellent ball handler and I don't think he will have any problems getting to the line while also being an efficient scorer where Magic won't be able to keep up with Paul. Magic's doesn't have good lateral quickness which will hurt him BIG TIME.

Dumars does have 3 inches and 15 pounds on him, so I don't think Paul will bother Dumars much if he wants to post up. Paul should worry about Dumars outsmarting him and beating him to his sweet spots on the floor.

Paul recorded a steal on 3.9% of the opponent's possessions while he was on the court. That was the best mark in the NBA this season by a mile. To put that in perspective, the runner-up, Ronnie Brewer (3.2%) ,was closer to tenth place than he was to first place. Now the year before that he was at 2.7%. Paul is also great off the ball, decent but hardly spectacular on it. He's not nearly as vulnerable to post-ups as you might think given his size, as Dallas learned in Round 1. Paul is not at all a lazy defender, and he's certainly not stupid. He is dedicated to what he can do well: Help to pinch off drives, and mess up the offense with the threat, or the practice, of stealing the ball. So I think Paul will do a pretty good job on Dumars, I'm not saying he will be shut down, BUT he will have problems getting around Paul.

So you go from calling 'Nique one of the best best scorers of his time and second only to M.J and then go on to say how Prince will somehow find a way to limit him? Prince? The same Prince who got lit up by Paul Pierce? Not that Prince, because it's not happening. Not unless he gets a lot of help, he's the civilian and 'Nique is the sniper, in single coverage 'Nique will make his target pay.

Obviously the drop off is quite LARGE from MJ to Nique. But I think Prince will do a good job against Nique, he won't let Nique go all out on the offensive end. Just check out what he did to Kobe Bryant in 2004 finals:
Game 1: 10-27
Game 2: 14-27 (only game the Lakers won)
Game 3: 4-13
Game 4: 8-25
Game 5: 7-21

I don't think Nique will be stopped but he won't be explosive as he is known to be.


All in all I just don't think the Celtics have enough to stop my front court, which destroys it scoring wise. And with Eaton starting and playing against Hakeem its basically like playing 4-5 on the offensive end. Not to mention how inefficient Eaton is on offense scoring only 6-7 pts, while only shooting in the mid 40% mark.


Btw Kosta, terrific team you did a great job, but coming this far, it wasn't good enough

[zong]

Vote: Kings and Rockets

[Warspite]

Eaton played offense behind the 3pt line at the top of the key. If Hakeem is guarding him then theres no reason to believe Hakeem will ever step inside the paint. I would think Sampson would be gaurding Eaton as he can release on the break and be able to contest Eatons shot.


I dont buy for 1 min that the Kings are going to have 3 players score 25pts and another to score 20. The Rockets have more firepower but they only have 1 basketball. Either Drexler or Sampson is going to have to reduce his FGA. Either way they are both guarded by HoF def players. Both will be less effecient and so for them to get there pts Hakeem will not have enough shots to outscore Buck much less score his 25pts.

What makes the Kings so deadly is that there 2 best off players are also there 2 best defenders. The Kings dont have to have those def specialists like the Tropics/Rockets and Celtics do to go along side there oof players. They have HoF 2 way players that lock down and score. What this does is force you to play honest and make you pay for double teamming.

We have seen these teams for a while now and if the voters want to put in reasons for there vote it would be great feedback for all GMs. I only ask that any commentary be as fair and balanced as possible.

I believe the Kings strength is in there balance and versitility. They play like todays Pistons team having 5 guys that score between 10-20ppg. I would assume the Kings would score 20% more pts than todays Pistons and its starters would account for most of that. However thats only 3ppg more than what the Pistons starters do. Hamilton abd Billups score 19 and 17ppg so Hakeem/Drexler are more likely a 22 and 18ppg players respectively.

Ill pick the Kings based on the Celtics lack of low post threats and the ease at which the Kings can spread the floor. The Kings however dont have the big scorers other teams do because they have more balance. I like the Kings team/help def but they are maybe the worst straight man to man def team of the Final 4.

[Sharpie]

Vote: Celtics and Tropics

[tsherkin]

Vote: Kings and Tropics.

[jeahwe]

vote: Tropics and Kings

[penbeast0]

Unofficial tally:

Kings 6 / Celtics 1

Tropics 4 / Rockets 2

[Kosta]

Well, the people have spoken, it was a nice ride. You built a really great team Baller with some sleeper picks in Paul and Sampson, you deserve the credit.

[Baller 24]

Likewise Kosta, enjoyed playing against you in the conference finals, and hope to meet again in the next one!

[Myth_Breaker]

My vote goes to Tropics.

[TMACFORMVP]

Good game Warspite, the better team won.