the reality of the lakers financial constraints

[dockingsched]

all off-season long fans on here have expected/hoped/demanded that the lakers make moves that would have them take high priced talent for an improved chance at the title. a lot of those same people say that if the chance for a title is there, dr. buss will pay the bill. the reality is that the lakers are at their financial limit and aren't going to be taking on long term contracts / high priced players. lamar odom is probably going to be a victim of this financial reality next off-season when his salary expires and andrew bynum's salary kicks in. all of the lakers actions support this idea.

lakers did not discuss contract extension with lamar and said his future contract status is undecided.

lakers refused to take on kenny thomas' deadweight contract.

lakers refused to match ronny's fair contract.

lakers have not used their mle, even on a player like james posey that was seemingly a PERFECT fit.

lakers, via kupchak, have said their roster is pretty much set with the possible additions of karl or crawford and mbenga, leaving the roster at 13.

i've seen ideas like taking on josh smith, despite his anticipated huge contract and horrible fit. i've seen ideas about taking on a high priced ben gordon or long term contracts of hinrich/nocioni. they just aren't going to happen from a financial p.o.v. Sure some can hope teams take on vlad or walton, but thats just wishful thinking at best. This isn't some new idea, there's precedent for dr. buss putting a limit on spending. when phil first arrived, he asked dr. buss to take on scottie pippen but was rejected for the simple fact that the money wasn't there.

my point is that the lakers are not going to significantly increase their long term financial commitment, and with sasha surrounded by kobe/pau/and the future stud we all believe bynum already is, its not the end of the world.

[That Nicka]

I didnt think the Lakers would pick up anybody this summer, but I was pissed that Turiaf wasnt match, especially since Lamar will most likely walk next year because Ronny is the perfect backup PF/C (in my eyes anyway)... but oh well.. we'll see what the front office can cook up to get us a backup PF...

VladRad for REvans anyone??

[dockingsched]

I didnt think the Lakers would pick up anybody this summer, but I was pissed that Turiaf wasnt match, especially since Lamar will most likely walk next year because Ronny is the perfect backup PF/C (in my eyes anyway)... but oh well.. we'll see what the front office can cook up to get us a backup PF...

the lakers have pau and lamar at pf, possibly vlad, and they even have luke who played a lot more pf than people realize. according to 82games, luke played pf for 6% of all the lakers pf minutes. thats like 3 minutes a game for every game of the year. of course thats not how it broke down, but thats a lot for luke. not saying going to luke is ideal, but its a position phil has shown he'd be willing to play luke at for spot minutes.

VladRad for REvans anyone??

i don't think thats something the lakers would do. although we've seen how much vlad sucks on d, the lakers and phil still started him at sf. he's still the only sf that we know can stretch the floor.

[Kobay]

Knicks have been paying 100mil a year for crap without going to the playoffs, but buss ain't got enough money after charging 100 grand for front seat tickets to the playoffs and finals?

[dockingsched]

Knicks have been paying 100mil a year for crap without going to the playoffs, but buss ain't got enough money after charging 100 grand for front seat tickets to the playoffs and finals?

buss has put a limit on spending before and everything that's occured this offseason supports that idea. i mean, why wouldn't the lakers match ronny, sign posey and take on k. thomas if money was no object?

in 1999, when phil arrived in l.a. he asked dr. buss to trade for scottie pippen and his huge contract. pippen and barkley had basically made it impossible for both to remain on the rockets and pippen even went as far as demanding a trade to the lakers.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1999/08/ ... 7894.shtml

Houston Rockets coach Rudy Tomjanovich refused comment Thursday on reports that forward Scottie Pippen has demanded a trade to the Los Angeles Lakers that would reunite him with his former coach, Phil Jackson.

the rockets later traded him to the blazers for a bunch of scrub contracts, but when phil approached dr. buss about it, here's phil's take on it through his the last season

The Houston Rockets were trying to dump Scottie's big salary, and it was my contention that he was exactly the type of battle-tested competitior who, as the third option behind Kobe and Shaq, could propel this very young, very immature group to its first championshio. Dr. Buss put an end to my plan in a hurry. "Phil, this what the organization has for money and this is what I own." he said. "Scottie Pippen would put our salary cap at this number and this is the penalty we would have to pay."

so yeah, dr. buss most definitely has a spending limit, even if its viewed as a move that addresses a big need.

[wfiles]

will kobe opt out for another team after seeing buss not commited to doing everything necessary to win championships? cause letting odom go for nothing is not acceptable.

[dockingsched]

will kobe opt out for another team after seeing buss not commited to doing everything necessary to win championships? cause letting odom go for nothing is not acceptable.

what team, that would be offering less money, could possibly lure kobe away from the best pair of big men in the league?

[microfib4thewin]

It is acceptable if it means the team will not turn into another Denver Nuggets where you get 4 guys getting paid over 10 million. In these days and age you need to make adjustments, and getting another player with an allstar type contract will prevent that.

[LLcoleJ]

I am not saying Buss will spend more and I dont see them making any major changes. However, looking back 10 years and referencing that has today is a little different.
Jerry Buss is older and he wants to win more titles. He has recently said he has made enough money in this life.

Also, in 1998 Philip Anschutz ( worth 7.8 billion) invested nearly 270 million into the Lakers ownership ( 35%). Phillip also at that time was finishing up building up Staples Center.

Finanical statments and commitments have changed since the late 90's. Again, I dont claim they will spend everything under the sun. I do think that they are all wanting and willing to get back to championship glory.

[dockingsched]

referring to the events of ten yrs ago was more to show people that buss hasn't always had a blank check if it means winning, not necessarily saying its something set in stone. the gist of my post was in the events of this off-season. we can even go back the season that just passed by where kupchak said that if bynum hadn't gotten injured, they probably don't make the pau trade. saying they wouldn't have made the deal without the injury, a deal they had been talking about for quite some time, shows the apprehension towards the future huge salary even then.

[LLcoleJ]

Anything could happen. They are not going to gamble and trade LO for long term salary -- just to do it. They have the luxury to see how this team plays together before making any major changes. ( to the displeasure of many here)

We can all speculate on what they will and wont spend. I just think they have leverage here and want to see what will happen.

I do feel personally that Buss at this stage in his career wants more rings than cha-ching. And many people seem to always leave out Phillip Anschutz in this scenario. The collective Laker ownership's pockets are deep.

[dockingsched]

Anything could happen. They are not going to gamble and trade LO for long term salary -- just to do it. They have the luxury to see how this team plays together before making any major changes. ( to the displeasure of many here)

We can all speculate on what they will and wont spend. I just think they have leverage here and want to see what will happen.

I do feel personally that Buss at this stage in his career wants more rings than bling. And many people seem to always leave out Phillip Anschutz in this scenario. The collective Laker ownership's pockets are deep.

can you elaborate more on the owneship? obviously dr. buss is majority owner and the minority owners are the ones with the deep deep pockets, but how does that cover buss' expenses? are the minority owners going to cover a majority of the expenses?

[That Nicka]

the lakers have pau and lamar at pf, possibly vlad, and they even have luke who played a lot more pf than people realize. according to 82games, luke played pf for 6% of all the lakers pf minutes. thats like 3 minutes a game for every game of the year. of course thats not how it broke down, but thats a lot for luke. not saying going to luke is ideal, but its a position phil has shown he'd be willing to play luke at for spot minutes.

Sure, for now we do.... But next year Lamar is gone, and we will have to find someone to backup PF through the draft (will you really trust a rookie as Pau's primary backup) or with MLE (hopefully there are good options available)... My point is Ronny was a long term solution and could have been had at a very fair price... If we enter the 09/10 season with Luke and Radman as our backup PFs then we will be in trouble... Again there is a lot of time between now and then I just hope it doesnt come down to that (and we know it wouldnt have had to if...)

[dockingsched]

yeah, like i listed in my first post, passing on ronny is quite the window at the team's financial situation.

[LLcoleJ]

Anything could happen. They are not going to gamble and trade LO for long term salary -- just to do it. They have the luxury to see how this team plays together before making any major changes. ( to the displeasure of many here)

We can all speculate on what they will and wont spend. I just think they have leverage here and want to see what will happen.

I do feel personally that Buss at this stage in his career wants more rings than bling. And many people seem to always leave out Phillip Anschutz in this scenario. The collective Laker ownership's pockets are deep.

can you elaborate more on the owneship? obviously dr. buss is majority owner and the minority owners are the ones with the deep deep pockets, but how does that cover buss' expenses? are the minority owners going to cover a majority of the expenses?

Philip Anschutz is 35% owner. While Buss is the majority owner and the managing one. Someone who has 35% ownership has a lot of influence and or responsibilty.

If we are going to assume that all this "extra" money that Buss had to pay in luxury tax payments comes out of Buss's own private piggy bank then we are wrong. It all comes out of the collective ownerships pockets. ( for lack of a better term) As an owner you reap the profits and losses.

We are not talking about 5% owners like Magic. There is no substance. Its probably more like partners with him and Phillip and Buss has final say.

On top of that, Philip Anschutz gets to double dip. The more revenue that is created with Staples Center the more money he makes.


The Lakers actually do make money. So, we are talking about spending money out of their profits and or futures and hopefully making up for that with long playoff runs and champtionships.

They are and have been fiscally responsible over the years.( in this NBA) There plan is not to spend as much as you can and hope thats enough for a ring. To us it looks like they are not doing anything.. to them they just want to get the most bang for their buck. The resources are there - just as any team in the NBA.

-- which hopefully a profit and a championship(s)

[dockingsched]

thanks. basically the lakers are operating on a self-imposed salary limit, not because they can't afford it. point still stands, the lakers' moves indicate a reluctance to add any long term salary. kobe/pau/bynum are believed to be enough to win the ring.

[eckoner]

Unfortunately i would have to agree with you on most of your points. It does appear that Buss has closed the checkbook and Mitch has been told to do what he can without spending more money than has already been spent.

However i go back to the point i made some months ago about how everyone discounts Dr. Buss when it comes to making the team better simply because of the age old argument "he does not want to spend the money" This is an argument based on opinion! yes sir with some data that weighs in favor of this opinion! agreed

The reality is that the Buss family makes a killing every year from the Lakers and affiliated investments. Put it this way... If the Lakers were to spend $100 Million per year on salary meaning it would come down to about $160 Million after lux taxes the Buss's from an investment/profit standpoint would still steer clear of failng into the red.

It's really insane how some of the investments and business decisions are paying off for the family and have them positioned for many years to reap the rewards of sound business management regardless of how much money they spend on team payroll.

So yes most likely the team will play out the next year sizing up Odom the see if he is worth his next contract...but as you stated i also agree the Buss's may very well believe this team can win it all with the big three of Kobe/Gasol/Bynum.

Of course we as rabid fans always want the Lakers to be that Dream/All-Star Team but this is never going be reality because of the business aspect but thats where it comes down to Mitch earning his paycheck which i still think he has failed to do even after most groupies here have lauded and reversed critiscism of him even though he had very little to do with bringing us Gasol.

in closing of course money at the end of the day will most likely determine future moves but dont discount Buss because he had to spend over $100 million on payroll he still makes more money than Kobe!

[SPuL]

will kobe opt out for another team after seeing buss not commited to doing everything necessary to win championships? cause letting odom go for nothing is not acceptable.

OR better yet, will Kobe opt out & sign an extention that starts around 14-15 mil to get the team under the lux tax so they can spend?

Why is it ok to expect Buss to be committed to losing money in order to win, but not the guy who spent all last summer complaining because they weren't winning? Show us how much you want to win by doing the unselfish thing

[hermes]

for those of you who mentioned the knicks and their 100+ million payroll, how did that work out for them? throwing ungodly amounts of money at something doesn't always solve the problem

[milesfides]

D-Cash, I disagree with your conclusion, but I do recognize your overall intent. In fact, I've made this same argument with the same reasons.

But I've been arguing Odom was likely gone - since January. I thought he should have been moved before the deadline, because I couldn't see the Lakers extending him for a fair price.

The writing was really on the wall when we traded for Gasol. Gasol replaces Odom at PF, Bynum's extension replaces Odom's salary. I think it's unreasonable to expect that Buss pays 4 max contracts - actually more, since Kobe's getting 20m+. Most teams don't even have 2 max contracts, let alone 4. And it's not like the surrounding role players are paid the minimum - they're paid substantial amounts of money. And I don't think it's a matter of being able to afford it - Warren Buffet could afford gas priced at $1K a gallon, but it doesn't mean he'll pay it.

Some would contend that Odom could take a paycut. True, but I don't see him taking a substantial enough paycut to really make a difference. He'd have to take close to the MLE, and I don't think he will considering his relative youth and standing around the league. This is probably the last major contract he'll sign, so I think he'll go for the big payday.

Anyways, it's hard to know what the hard line is for the Lakers. As I've said in another post, the Lakers are inevitably going to pay tax, the question is, how much are they willing to pay? 2-3 million in tax? 5 million? 10 million?

They obviously didn't want to pay for Turiaf, nor for presumably Kenny Thomas and Artest. But would they be willing to pay for Tayshaun Prince?

I'm not sure, but I'm open to the possibility that perhaps for the right player, the Lakers would be willing to take on more tax (within reasonable limits).

Moreover, it's probably a fluid situation, and if the right deal comes under the right circumstances, the Lakers might do it. Kobe might opt out and renegotiate a smaller yearly salary. That would change things. Maybe even Pau. Maybe Farmar gets a big contract and we don't match. That changes things. Our salary and tax situation can and probably will change.

A long-term perspective can also provide some flexibility. A trade may cost us this year, but it may save us money over the next three years.

Time can also be a factor. Things might be tight this summer, but it may change as early as in the fall (let's say Odom struggles mightily, or let's say certain players improve dramatically, or let's say Bynum undergoes season ending surgery).



In my opinion, there's still value in discussing trades and big signings. They just have to make more sense, fulfill certain conditions. How can we improve our team while playing within the financial constraints, while acknowledging some wiggle room and flexibility afforded by certain variables (ownership, players, time).

It's possible that the Lakers are willing to take on a high-priced player - as long as they can unload one of their own, such as Radamn. Why would the other team agree? Perhaps they will if the Lakers sacrifice a valuable asset like Farmar in the process. How can that be acceptable to the Lakers? What if the player to be received is a better PG? Then it starts making sense.

So I think there's plenty of room to discuss trades as long as they make some basketball and financial sense.