If we haven't traded for Kidd...

Darren · Post #1 » by **Darren** » Mon Aug 4, 2008 3:43 pm

C - Diop / Damp / Fazekas
PF - Dirk / Bass / Singleton
SF - JoHo / Stack / AW
SG - Magg / Rush / Green
PG - Devin / JET / JJB

What a hell to Dallas!!??
We still only a pick to New Jersey right now?

mffl_14 · Post #2 » by **mffl_14** » Mon Aug 4, 2008 4:04 pm

We still would have over paid for Diop, Fazekas is a spare, We wouldn't have AW if we didn't trade for Kidd, Maggette didn't sign with us or San Antonio for the same MLE, and we still get bounced in the first round with that roster, what upsets me about the trade is losing the draft picks, and getting older and more salary.

Rand10 · Post #3 » by **Rand10** » Mon Aug 4, 2008 4:55 pm

Maggette wouldn't have signed here, but we would have had a better offer for Artest than Houston with Bass, Stack, and picks.

Post #4 » by **DDansby123** » Mon Aug 4, 2008 5:21 pm

If we hadn't traded Harris for Kidd during the season, we would've done it this offseason after getting bounced in the first round.

your_dallas_mavericks · Post #5 » by **your_dallas_mavericks** » Mon Aug 4, 2008 5:46 pm

DDansby123 wrote:If we hadn't traded Harris for Kidd during the season, we would've done it this offseason after getting bounced in the first round.

I don't think we would have been bounced from the first round.

Pointguard01 · Post #6 » by **Pointguard01** » Mon Aug 4, 2008 6:12 pm

Yea. Before Harris was traded, wasn't Dallas like a top 4 team? Maybe we fall back like we did to the 7th seed, but if we finsihed 4th/5th, we would definately be playing a lesser team and have had a better chance to advance. Kidd just doesnt fit in with this team. To me, he has lost his step to truely create constantly for his teammates, and this team loves Iso's. Kidd is still one of the best in transition, and he understands how to play the game as good as anyone, but his skills are diminsihed, not to mention his fit to the team we had/have isnt good.

I still think Dallas is better off puttng Jason Terry at PG, and trading Jason Kidd/Bass to get that SG we are so desprite to have. Dirk/Howard work so much better with the court spread to go 1v1.

Pointguard01 · Post #7 » by **Pointguard01** » Mon Aug 4, 2008 6:14 pm

Yea. Before Harris was traded, wasn't Dallas like a top 4 team? Maybe we fall back like we did to the 7th seed, but if we finsihed 4th/5th, we would definately be playing a lesser team and have had a better chance to advance. Kidd just doesnt fit in with this team. To me, he has lost his step to truely create constantly for his teammates, and this team loves Iso's. Kidd is still one of the best in transition, and he understands how to play the game as good as anyone, but his skills are diminsihed, not to mention his fit to the team we had/have isnt good.

I still think Dallas is better off puttng Jason Terry at PG, and trading Jason Kidd/Bass to get that SG we are so desprite to have. Dirk/Howard work so much better with the court spread to go 1v1.

Pointguard01 · Post #8 » by **Pointguard01** » Mon Aug 4, 2008 6:20 pm

I just looked it up.

Before the Kidd trade (Feb 13th) Dallas was 35-17
Dallas finsihed the seasonw with Kidd at 16-14

Im not saying that Dallas was going to go anywhere or get past even the 1st or 2nd round with Harris, but I do know that Dallas would have alot more trade peices at their disposal. Not only would we have a 1st round pick to either add young talent or trade, but we would have our 2009/2010 pick to trade.

JES12 · Post #9 » by **JES12** » Mon Aug 4, 2008 8:34 pm

C - Diop / Damp / Fazekas
PF - Dirk / Bass / Singleton
SF - JoHo / Stack / AW
SG - Azibuke/ Hassell / Green
PG - Devin / JET / JJB

Fixed

Post #10 » by **DDansby123** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 4:01 am

your_dallas_mavericks wrote:I don't think we would have been bounced from the first round.

The only way that happens is if Howard doesn't lay an egg in the first round. Did he do that because of his "personal problems"? If so, was Harris a big part of it? If so, I have even less respect for Josh Howard. And the only reason I'd care about the "what ifs" surrounding the Kidd trade is if it somehow sheds some light on which players should stay and which ones should go. Of course, it also proved to everyone here (hopefully) that this team wasn't nearly good enough to compete for a championship...not even close.

PG, I don't think the pre- and post-Harris comparisons are fair vis a vis standings. Dirk was hurt after the AS break, several teams improved at the trade deadline, etc. It was a tight race before the trade, and a tight race after. Who knows what we would've drawn if we'd won a few more games. NOH wasn't the worst matchup for us, particularly if we'd kept Harris.

Too many "what ifs" to make the discussion worthwhile, IMO. Look forward peeps.

Post #11 » by **HMFFL** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 4:35 am

your_dallas_mavericks wrote:
DDansby123 wrote:If we hadn't traded Harris for Kidd during the season, we would've done it this offseason after getting bounced in the first round.

I don't think we would have been bounced from the first round.

Will you give Devin as much credit if he's sitting at home watching the playoffs next year? As easy at the East is the Nets should hold the 8th and final playoff spot....even still Devin doesn't deserve the amount of credit some of the Dallas fans are giving him.

JES12 · Post #12 » by **JES12** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 4:42 am

Devin's attributes are needed most against Parker, Paul, Ellis, Iverson, and Barbosa.

None of them are in the East. Harris had a much better future in Dallas than he will have in NJ, but at least he will get more playing time and be a better offensive player in NJ.

italy_23 · Post #13 » by **italy_23** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 6:40 am

this is all in the past, we should focus on the present and future.

your_dallas_mavericks · Post #14 » by **your_dallas_mavericks** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 1:18 pm

Do NOT knock the trade until this season is over. This trade cannot be measured properly until the 2008-09 season is officially over. If we don't make the playoffs or have a first round exit then it was an absolutely stupid trade. I believe in Carlisle.

italy_23 · Post #15 » by **italy_23** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 1:59 pm

yeah, bring back some optimism, ydm!

your_dallas_mavericks · Post #16 » by **your_dallas_mavericks** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 3:59 pm

I am trying Italia! I am trying!

Post #17 » by **DDansby123** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 5:20 pm

HMFFL wrote:
your_dallas_mavericks wrote:Will you give Devin as much credit if he's sitting at home watching the playoffs next year? As easy at the East is the Nets should hold the 8th and final playoff spot....even still Devin doesn't deserve the amount of credit some of the Dallas fans are giving him.

Welcome to the new Mavs board, where the hometown team always loses because of (a) a bad matchup in the playoffs; (b) the horrible trades we make; and (c) the great trades we didn't make. We get screwed by those things each and every year...otherwise we'd have rings for every finger.

Teffer10 · Post #18 » by **Teffer10** » Wed Aug 6, 2008 5:55 am

I still think the biggest screw ups by the FO was resigning Terry and Stack and perceiving them as legit core players.

Donnie, Mark, and Avery overvalued their players (including Dirk) more than most fans on this board.

Failing to put the right pieces around Dirk after the 2006 season was the biggest failure imo. The Kidd trade was just a desperate move in an attempt to make up for the earlier failures.

Including the 2010 pick to NJ was the real head-scratcher for me...the 08 made perfectly good sense.

Pointguard01 · Post #19 » by **Pointguard01** » Wed Aug 6, 2008 6:51 am

HMFFL wrote:Will you give Devin as much credit if he's sitting at home watching the playoffs next year? As easy at the East is the Nets should hold the 8th and final playoff spot....even still Devin doesn't deserve the amount of credit some of the Dallas fans are giving him.

I'll give credit where credit is due. Harris was the type of PG Dallas, and more importantly Dirk/Howard needed. It was the SG, and then possiblely the C positions that were the problem. Harris wasnt the best guy at creating for others, but he was very unselfish, which allowed Dirk and Howard to be the top options (and righfully so). But he also had the ability to create for himself when other struggled, and was the one guy who attacked the rim for easy shots. Whether he was a reason why we were better then, or losing him was a reason why we did worse, he shouldnt have been the scapgoat and the one leaving.

This trade is going to haunt Dallas for a while. We gave up a what, 25 year old PG that even if he doesnt get better will eventually be a damn good 3rd option for a team, that plays good defense, and always gives his all. And his contract was reasonable compared to what Dallas throws out to other players (Raef, Stackhouse, Diop, Dampier, ect). There are plenty of moves that make the Kidd/Harris trade even worse, but thats the biggest one and the one that puts it over the edge.

Yea, we should look forward, but to what? Apparently we are heading into the season with this bottom seed playoff team. Am I suppose to be optimistic? Excited? I dont know, but I do know that our future was hell of alot brighter when Harris was on this team. It shoulda been Stack & Terry leaving (Terry more-so b/c Harris needed to be the PG) and trying to add some different peices at the positions of need (and yet we still havent addressed those).

It's just going to keep getting worse. We're not gonna trade Dirk probably, so we need to get some fresh young peices in here, rebuild and hopefully be good enough in a couple years on Dirk's last good few seasons to compete, with help from Dirk.

The last straw will be when we give Kidd an extension. Honestly, I dont want him around when Dampier & Stack fully expire and we have possible cap space in 2010.

italy_23 · Post #20 » by **italy_23** » Wed Aug 6, 2008 6:53 am

while I agree that terry's contract may be a little too high and a little too long I dont see where they overpayed dirk. every player of his caliber gets a max contract.