Andre Miller: Man of Mystery

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

When he retires, he is a first ballot hall of famer.

He is one of only SIX Guards to win the MVP, combined with all of his other accomplishments. He is by far a franchise player. No one will look negatively at him for a team with no Defense in Denver, and one of the worst GM'S in his era in Billy King.

[bebopdeluxe]

jmon:

Good post. Even though you are a new poster, I appreciate the fact that - unlike others on this forum - you are willing to adjust your position and include other's positions in a discussion...it makes debating someone whose position is different from yours more fun when posters are able to say, "hmmm...you may have a point"...

If you were on this forum before AI was traded, I was one of the most vocal proponents of moving the guy (my rant was "AI is a PIG")...as much as I loved the guy, I felt that others (like Iggy and Korver) were simply deferring to him too much...he was shooting WAY too much (and too poorly)...it was time to turn the page (giving somebody like Iggy the ability to grow a sack). For me, my recent transformation and willingness to taking AI back has been driven by the clear (and statistically significant) change in his game since he went to Denver. On a 50-win team, and with - for the first time in his career - another clearly above-average player on his team, Iverson was willing and ABLE to change his game...perhaps it was a case that on the Sixers, he HAD to be that volume shooter...they went to the Finals with that strategy, but on a younger team that needed to develop their assets, it was not as good of a fit.

Fast forward to today...

The Sixers are now a younger, deeper and legitimate playoff contender...the "young" assets have developed nicely (with no small thanks to Miller), we now have a legit All-Star in Brand, and several talented complimentary pieces. What we need - assuming that we get Iggy signed - is a PG to put us over the top. I am concerned that Miller's game may not be the best fit next to Iggy (he simply is not a good enough shooter, IMO), and while I can rationalize away Miller's fatigue in the Detroit as simply having to do too much in the regular season, I do wonder now how much he would have left in the tank in, say, June of 2010 - as we try to get to the Finals...and I hope that - rather than sign Miller to an extension before the season - we let the season play out and assess our options then.

I still hold out hope that we can do something at the deadline to trade Miller for Hinrich (my favorite option right now), but if we get to next summer...and Miller's play this season leads us to consider other options ..and AI is willing to consider a 2-3 year deal for the MLE to come back as the PG to help put us over the top, the unquestionable change in his game in Denver would force me to consider it. Getting an impact player of AI's ability for the MLE would simply be ridiculous price/value...and I think he wants a ring badly enough (and he has shown me - by deferring to CARMELO ANTHONY, for crissakes) to do what is best for the team to get there.

[tk76]

AI is an all time great- but he is a winner when he is played at SG. Asking him to change his game to play full time PG hurts AI and hurts the team. AI only played full time PG for a few seasons in his career- and it was not his most successful years from a winning standpoint. When he plays PG he overdribbles and passes for assistt and not to run the offense or balance the floor. His teammates end up becoming passive observers becasue the ball is not moving freely.

As a SG, AI can create from a more attacking, score first mentality. He doesn't have to rotate the ball or maintain floor balance. No one has to cover for him in terms of floor balance when he drives. He can just be AI.

I'm not the biggest LB fan, but he quickly realized how to best use AI's skills, and that was as a SG on offense. It's not that AI lacks PG skills- its that he has to take away from who he is- in order to be successful at it (and not kust get numbers for himself)- this is not good for AI or his team.

AI plays the PG on defense, but he should play the SG on offense- its not a criticism, it suits his game. MJ had the talent to play PG too, but I would not have wanted him to be the point. MJ often ran the offense, but it wasn't his prime responsibility- and it should be the same for AI.

[geiger]

AI is a unique player. He can play some point, but he's not a full time point guard. He can play point for you if you have another, bigger PG who can share time with him, and if you have a SG who can handle the rock and run the offense from time to time. We had that in 2000 with Snow and McKie. I think Iggy can do some of the things McKie did as far as being a facilitator, and I absolutely love AI. But I do not believe he will sign with the Sixers for the MLE and I do not believe he would be the best fit in a line up with Brand, Dalembert, Young and Iguodala and on a team where Williams is the 6th man. He doesn't run the offense well enough, he shoots too much for our particular team, and his jump shooting and three point shooting are a bit suspect. He would make us a more dangerous offensive team in a one game playoff series, but he wouldn't make us better during the regular season and I'm not so sure he would make us better in a tough playoff series. If Miller leaves as a free agent, we could do a lot worse than signing AI for the MLE, but I just don't see it happening.

[baseline_jay]

If you guys are not on the 2010 plan -- seeking some big name FA -- use Miller as a trade chip by mid-season.

I'm thinking Blake/Outlaw/filler for Miller

[bebopdeluxe]

geiger:

I guess that I disagree that AI would be a bad fit with Iggy, Thad, Brand and Sammy. I don't think you could do better than putting AI with 4 average-to-plus defenders around him...and unlike the 2000-01 team, those four guys give you a LOT more on the offensive end than Snow, Lynch, Skeletor, etc...

It is also hard for me to see a huge dropoff in our ability to run the offense in the halfcourt with AI vesus Miller...for me, seeing what AI has done in Denver tells me that he is much more able to give up shots and move the ball (getting over 7 assists a game from a SG is pretty darn good), and this would be a situation where Iggy's unselfishness and passing skills would actually be an asset. Iggy also becomes unquestionably the #3 option on offense (until Thad pushes him there), and at THAT level, he should thrive - getting more space to drive, and the ability to shoot more spot-up jumpers (which he seems to do better than creating his shot off the bounce or "catch and release").

To me, the biggest question is: would he consider taking the MLE for 2-3 years to take a shot at a ring with us? We won't know the answer to that question until next summer. While I ascribe a higher probability chance that he would consider it than you, I don't think the probability is high (I would say 1 in 3...depending on how the Sixers do this spring and how the UFA market shakes out)...but it is just another reason why any talk of Stefanski extending Miller before the season starts is silly. There simply is no rush. If he wants to stay next summer, he will. If we WANT him to stay, we will probably make him the best offer. But why cut off other potential options (like, say, Hinrich or AI) before you have to? That makes no sense to me.

[geiger]

AI could always get assists but that doesn't make him capable of running an offense. Especially not a half court offense. That's why Denver struggled so bad. His defense was attrocious and he couldn't run the half court offense at all, so when they couldn't run, they got shut down. They did much better when AI played SG. I don't doubt that AI wants to win or that he would be willing to give up the ball - but he has never had point guard skills in terms of running a complex NBA offense, getting people in place, etc. He can make a nice pass by breaking down his man, but he can't make the pass that leads to a pass that leads to the bucket. That's what true PGs can do. Than again, if we can land another PG to that roster - maybe a bigger kid, AI could be perfect. I just can't see him coming back to Philly for the MLE. And I do agree with you that he might very well be the best option we have. I'm just not sure how it would play out in a playoff format. AI can get his own shot, but can he get the ball to Brand in a good place in the post? Can he hit Iggy on the move? Can he get Young involved? Will he continue to over dribble and run down the shot clock?

By the way, Heinrich and AI would be awesome. If we can move Miller for Heinrich, and then land AI for the MLE, and draft a shooter in the first round next season, the team would be sick. We would become a legitimate championship contender.

[Loose Cannon]

If you want to get technical, AI could initiate the half-court offense: isolation.

[bebopdeluxe]

geiger:

There is no question that, if AI came back to play the point, he would HAVE TO PLAY THE POINT...and that means getting everybody involved, reading the defense and knowing where to get the ball...you know..."point guard"-typs stuff. I don't think he'll ever be a great on-the-ball defender, but I think that the other guys that will be out on the floor would compensate for that. I also envision Iggy being able to initiate the offense at times as well...allowing AI to work off the ball and create space. To be clear, I am ONLY on board with this idea if Stefanski sits AI down and says, "we can win a championship here, but we need you to be a POINT GUARD for the first 40-44 minutes of the game, at least..."

I like the idea of Hinrich and AI...but how would Hinrich, AI, Iggy and Thad all get 35 mpg?

[jmon]

I love the Hinrich idea, but don't think it is feasible whatsoever, unless we are giving up a legit "piece" in the deal like Speights once his stock rises. I would think Hinrich is one of the most sought out players in the NBA right now, since he is gettable, has a manageable contract, can shoot, pass a little, and defend 2 positions adequately.

If we got Hinrich, my interest in AI would be 0 though since I would have interest in one adequate defender of 2 guards in Hinrich and one porous defender in Iverson.

Iverson is about to start declining as well which is a legit factor here. He has played many more minutes in this league than Andre Miller.

[bebopdeluxe]

jmon:

I agree - if we got Hinrich, then I have no interest in AI. I can tell you that, over on the Bulls forum, they realize that if the Bulls resign Gordon or do an S&T with him, Hinrich is gone...simple math.

And while it might seem like Hinrich is a desirable commodity, it's not like there are a ton of teams that 1) need him, and 2) can do somthing salary-wise that is much better than a straight salary dump right now (something like, say, Harrington of GS). That is why I am hoping that a trade deadline deal could be done, with the Bulls moving the last three years of Hinrich's contract, and only having to deal with having Miller for another 25-30 games.

[jmon]

@bebo

You are probably right actually. Looking at the league, not many teams would be too interested probably. Portland jumps to mind immediately, but they may be planning something HUGE in a year since they "hypothetically" could have over 30 million in cap space. Then again, they could get Hinrich for an expiring contracts, a player no in their future(Outlaw), and a couple picks. And still likely have up to 20 million in cap space.

Beyond that, Philly, Houston, Cleveland, and the Lakers come to mind. Denver has a trade exception(From the Clips trade) as well if interested, but that seems unlikely.

I would surely rather retain Hinrich than pay Gordon any real money.