Sharing Seattle's team history - yay or nay?

[RoboNerd]

What do you guys think about hanging retired numbers?

I'm in a bit of a tangle over this issue. On one hand, the players deserve to have the honor, but on the other hand, the team really isn't the Sonics anymore.

[McG]

What do you guys think about hanging retired numbers?

I'm in a bit of a tangle over this issue. On one hand, the players deserve to have the honor, but on the other hand, the team really isn't the Sonics anymore.

I'd agree that the players deserve to be honored but you have to wonder if any of them would even want the 'honor' of getting a jersey hung in OKC. Most of the retired are still very involved with the Seattle community and I wouldn't be surprised to see them become publicly opposed to the issue. I expect the media backlash alone would outweight whatever (if any) benefit might come from hanging Sonics jerseys in the arena. If Bennett has any smarts he will stay as far away as possible from such negative publicity.

[Joe Jackson]

What do you guys think about hanging retired numbers?

I'm in a bit of a tangle over this issue. On one hand, the players deserve to have the honor, but on the other hand, the team really isn't the Sonics anymore.

I'd agree that the players deserve to be honored but you have to wonder if any of them would even want the 'honor' of getting a jersey hung in OKC. Most of the retired are still very involved with the Seattle community and I wouldn't be surprised to see them become publicly opposed to the issue. I expect the media backlash alone would outweight whatever (if any) benefit might come from hanging Sonics jerseys in the arena. If Bennett has any smarts he will stay as far away as possible from such negative publicity.

You should try to get a life besides being a low level troll McGufus.

[McG]

You should try to get a life besides being a low level troll McGufus.

JJ you really need to be more constructive with your criticism. I'm simply trying to add a realistic perspective to topics I find interestingly misinformed. Rather than resorting to 'low level' name calling I'd appreciate a likewise constructive response (if you can manage such a thing) to any of my posts. Thanks in advance.

[a_sensei]

I, personally, would feel quite akward if they honored Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, Detlef Schrempf, etc. at an OKC game.

I guarantee you that NOT ONE of the players mentioned above would want to be honored in OKC. Kemp and Payton were outspoken about this before the move.

How about Schrempf?
He's from Germany and he would probably be real enthused about the Wild West connotations.

Detlef went to high school in Centralia, WA (half way between Sea and Portland), University of Washington, and after playing on the Sonics refused to play for any other team unless it was Portland so he could keep his family in Seattle. I very much doubt that he has much interest in OKC.

In terms of numbers, I think they should keep the numbers retired but if Seattle gets a franchise the retired numbers should be returned.

This thread very much relates to both OKC and Seattle, you need to expect some Sonic fans to give you there point of view. I don't think anyone has been too inflammatory.

[LBJVirus218]

Cavs fan here just browsing your forum because of the trade today....and saw this topic and wanted to share what happened with Cleveland Browns.

Modell announced on November 6, 1995, that he had signed a deal to relocate the Browns to Baltimore in 1996—a move which would return the NFL to Baltimore for the first time since the Colts relocated to Indianapolis after the 1983 season. The very next day, on November 7, 1995, Cleveland voters overwhelmingly approved an issue that had been placed on the ballot at Modell's request, before he made his decision to move the franchise, which provided $175 million in tax dollars to refurbish the outmoded and declining Cleveland Municipal Stadium. Modell's plan was later scrapped and taxpayers ultimately paid close to $300 million to demolish the old stadium and construct a new stadium for the Browns on the site of Municipal Stadium.

Browns fans reacted angrily to the news. Over 100 lawsuits were filed by fans, the city of Cleveland, and a host of others. Congress held hearings on the matter. Actor/comedian Drew Carey returned to his hometown of Cleveland on November 26, 1995, to host "Fan Jam" in protest of the proposed move. A protest was held in Pittsburgh during the Browns' game there but ABC, the network broadcasting the game, declined to cover or mention the protest. It was one of the few instances that Steelers fans and Browns fans were supporting each other, as fans in Pittsburgh felt that Modell was robbing their team of their rivalry with the Browns.[citation needed]

Virtually all of the team's sponsors immediately pulled their support, leaving Municipal Stadium devoid of advertising during the team's final weeks.

The 1995 season was a disaster on the field as well. After starting 3–1, the Browns lost 3 straight before the news broke about the team's impending move cut the legs out from under the team. They finished 5–11, including a 2–7 record in the nine games after the announcement. When fans in the Dawg Pound became unruly during their final home game against the Cincinnati Bengals, action moving towards that end zone had to be moved to the opposite end of the field. Several fans set fires in the stands, especially in the "Dawg Pound" section and assaulted security officials and police officers who tried to quell the growing fires. The Browns won, the only game the team won after the news of their move got out.

After extensive talks between the NFL, the Browns and officials of the two cities, Cleveland accepted a legal settlement that would keep the Browns legacy in Cleveland. In February 1996, the NFL announced that the Browns would be 'deactivated' for three years, and that a new stadium would be built for a new Browns team, as either an expansion team or a team moved from another city, that would begin play in 1999. Modell would in turn be granted a new franchise for Baltimore, the Baltimore Ravens, retaining the current contracts of players and personnel. There would be a new team, but the Browns' name, colors, history, records, awards and archives would remain in Cleveland. Coincidentally, the only other current NFL team to suspend operations without merging with another, the St. Louis Rams, had once played in Cleveland (they suspended during the 1943 season, at the height of World War II).
- Wikipedia.org

[breaker91]

I don't see anyone in the OKC front office taking the Sonics' history with them moving forward no matter how much some OKC fans want to see it. Not with several ex-players against it (Kemp, Payton, and most recently nate McMillan) the risk of bad press will assure that the FO would axe any effort to do so.

[bmw42690]

^I'm not sure how many OKC people want to see the history come here. That stuff didnt happen here so no need to bring it here

[london sonic]

Personally I dont understand this issue.

new start
new city
new name

and last of all ------NEW HISTORY

Let seattle keep the history its theirs plain and simple.OKC can make their own.

[Orlock78]

I agree with the above post. As far as records and things like that are concerned they should treat it as if all the players on the team were traded from (a now non-exsistent) Seattle to Oklahoma City. Therefore if Durant scored 50 points in Seattle and then set a new high of 48 in OKC, the record should be 48. but his personal would still be 50. Just as if he were traded, which he essentially was.

As far as the Venomous nature of the Seattle fans, I can understand their feelings, but its COMPLETELY directed to the wrong places. OKC did not "Steal" the team they BOUGHT it. when you BUY something you can do whatever you want with it. So if they are pissed and I think they should be. Then they should be Pisssed at the guy who SOLD the team. And by progression the lack of support they recieved from their fellow Seatlleites (?) and the city government of Seattle. Taking their wrath out on OKC and Clay Bennet is ridicoulous in my opinion. I mean come on, A buisnessman from a city (who just proved they can support a professional NBA Franchise) who just lost their temporary NBA team, comes and offers to buy your struggling franchise that hasn't recieved the support it needs to financially flourish, AND YOU EXPECT HIM TO STAY IN SEATLLE??? REALLY??? That is utter non-sense. The only way they had even a gleam of hope was if the city had suddenly pulled a 180 and dredged up the support and cash for a new state of the art arena and had it on a silver platter for Bennett in record time. But the point is if they want to be mad at someone it should be Howard Schultz, The Government of Seattle, and the majority of the population of Seattle who just didn't care.

[bmw42690]

^well put.

[yoyo65]

magic fan here i blame the city of seattle for not getting the team a new arena we are building a new one here and i thank the city of orlando and orange county officals for standing up and voting to spend the money they are spending over 1.1 bil on a arts center the arena and renovating the citrus bowl seatt6le fans have no one to blame but themselves cus they voted a new arena down

[pr0wler]

magic fan here i blame the city of seattle for not getting the team a new arena we are building a new one here and i thank the city of orlando and orange county officals for standing up and voting to spend the money they are spending over 1.1 bil on a arts center the arena and renovating the citrus bowl seatt6le fans have no one to blame but themselves cus they voted a new arena down

Seattle fans have already paid for Safeco Field and Seahawks Stadium in the past 10 years, I don't think they are in any mood to AGAIN to publicly fund ANOTHER brand stadium at this point. The Key Arena renovation option was much more viable, but Clay Bennett chose to pursue the idea of a new arena because he knew Seattle couldn't afford it.

I am mad at Howard Schultz as well for selling the team in the manner that he did, but also at Clay Bennett for lying to the public about his intentions when his emails revealed otherwise. It's not cool to buy a team under false pretenses meanwhile secretly plotting in the background to move first chance he gets. And I hate David Stern for being a shady POS throughout this whole ordeal, he was obviously being Clay Bennett's butt buddy the entire time, the favouritism was obvious. He might be the one I hate the most throughout this ordeal. I don't hold any grudges towards any OKC fans however, so I hope my post is not misrepresented.

As for the history, I don't see why the OKC would want the Sonics history in the first place. It's your team, a new name, new city etc. why would you want to jack the Seattle Sonics history and bastardize it as your own? What is Clay Bennett gonna hang up uniforms of Payton and Kemp, who OKC fans might have never seen play a single game? I don't mean that in a bad way at all, because if some other team moved to my city and they started hanging up banners of players I barely recognize I would be pissed as well. It's a fresh start in OKC and they should start from a new beginning.

[NateMustGo]

I guess we will leave this up to the former players like Nate Mcmilian

[wizkid27]

pr0wler, i totally agree with you man. I think the only party that Seattle fans/citizens SHOULD NOT place any anger or blame towards is the fans and citizens of Oklahoma. Outside of that, I think any blame from the NBA to Schultz to Bennett is probably correctly placed. I also have yet to hear really anyone on the OKC side (or any side) who is saying that they want to keep the seattle history. Seems to be pretty much unanimous across the board.

[Orlock78]

I completely agree that OKC should have no interest what so ever in the history of the Seattle team. I can't imagine why they would want to continually bring up the bad blood and awkward feelings of this city switch by referencing Seattles History, much less hang a continual reminder in the rafters at the Ford Center.

On the issue of clay bennett, I'm just trying to say that if people thought that Clay Bennett honestly had no interest in moving the team to OKC, simply because he said he would "try" to keep them in Seattle then they are very Naieve indeed. He's a buisnessman, and buisnessmen go where the money is. I would think this is a fundamental truth of life. When he originally said he would try to keep the team in Seattle most of the national media said exactly the same thing : "YEAH, RIGHT!". And if some of the fans couldn't see that, well, that sucks, but you better believe that Schultz was no idiot. He knew exactly what was going to happen, and only came up with this lame duck lawsuit after he was Demonized (and rightfully so) for selling the team in the first place.

[McG]

On the issue of clay bennett, I'm just trying to say that if people thought that Clay Bennett honestly had no interest in moving the team to OKC, simply because he said he would "try" to keep them in Seattle then they are very Naieve indeed. He's a buisnessman, and buisnessmen go where the money is. I would think this is a fundamental truth of life. When he originally said he would try to keep the team in Seattle most of the national media said exactly the same thing : "YEAH, RIGHT!".

You should hope that this isn't as apparent in court as it has been to every other onlooker. I'm looking forward to seeing how PBC's lawyers are planning their defense as (as you said) their initial intentions are obvious. Has there been any buzz about this in the OKC media? I expect this to be an extremely ugly situation come next Spring.

[Downtown]

Orlock, I agree that Howard Schultz is at the root of the whole ordeal. When Bennett offered an overinflated price for the team Schultz took the money and ran, despite anything he said at the time about Bennett wanting to keep the team in Seattle.

As a Seattle fan from Vancouver, who watched Michael Heisley lie to move the Grizzlies to Memphis, I said right from the start that Bennett was lying to everyone about being serious about wanting to keep the team in Seattle and it was a no brainer that a billionaire from Oklahoma would lie and do whatever it took to move the Sonics to his hometown, and unfortunately for us Seattle fans it proved to be true.

You can call it doing business, but fans in Seattle have every right to be mad at Bennett, who has been proven in court to be nothing more than a lying rich bully. But I personally draw the line at blaming Joe Average OKC resident for being thrilled about getting a team. The super rich stomped on the average fans of Seattle and had no regard for them, but I know if I were from OKC I would embrace the team. As a matter of fact on the sonicscentral site there has been an ongoing debate about not wanting to "steal" another cities team like Bennett stole the Sonics. I'm in the camp that as the "little guy" with no say in matters if I'm a NBA fan I simply look upon a chance for a team as a great thing. I'm still clinging to the smallest hope that someday Vancouver could get another team.

But as far as whining Seattle fans go, just go on the Sonics board and see the locked thread about time to move on. The insults cut both ways and they cut alot deeper for Seattle fans, some of whom have supported the team for decades( I personally have been a fan and have watched them since the mid seventies).

Taking the history to OKC and looking at it in the Ford Center doesn't come remotely close to equalling the memories for alot of people in Seattle. And that goes deeper than hanging banners. For alot of Seattle people it is a symbol of a special night that they may have attended at Key Arena, and the remembering of times past that they devoted themselves to whenever they look at the banner and jerseys. I understand why, but I don't think any OKC fan truly realizes the meaning of having that 41 year history go to a place where it doesn't belong.

Finally, even though I'm not from the Seattle area, it just doesn't feel right to me to even post in this forum. There's no real reason for it but it almost feels like going to the dark side, which is poor reasoning I know. But I hold no grudge against residents of Oklahoma, although it angers me to no end when the odd one posts something that's akin to rubbing Seattle fans nose in it for losing their team.

[Orlock78]

Downtown, I totally agree with every thing you said. I only have to put myself in a Sonics fan's shoes to experience even a degree of the anger an resentment they are going through. If the Pacers relocated, I don't think I would be able to repress a irrational anger against the fans or populace of the city they moved to. But I would be a lot more angry at the guy who Sold the team, than the Seattle Fans seem to be.

[McG]

I would be a lot more angry at the guy who Sold the team, than the Seattle Fans seem to be.

From what I've read this is far from the truth. Browse any of Seattle's local papers' websites and it is obvious who the media places much of the blame on.