RealGM Top 100 All-Time List

Post #41 » by **tkb** » Thu Aug 7, 2008 7:59 am

What I like about having votes count over is that you don't have to follow the stream all the time which is what happened last time. Since your vote basically didn't count unless you voted for one of the 2 most popular picks, there wasn't really a point in voting for someone other than those 2 candidates even if you felt like other candidates were better. If you have votes count over, everyone at least has the chance to vote honestly on every spot instead of going for a "lesser of two evils" strategy and every vote will count, which also is nice.

Obviously you have to discard votes if someone tries to get a joke player into the top 100 (Travis Diener for instance), but I don't think that will happen.

JordansBulls · Post #42 » by **JordansBulls** » Thu Aug 7, 2008 12:09 pm

Baller 24 wrote:JordansBulls that sounds good to me, its all up to you guys, we can get this thing started right now, I really don't have a problem, its what ever you guys decide.

And TMACFORMVP, I think we should base this on accomplishments (awards, championships, leadership) and stats also play a big role of course. Same as the previous one I guess, I can't look back at it for my reference obviously now that its gone, but some of you that participated in the last one should know more about this.

So if we start it up then we can start it up on the 11th which is a Monday, or we could give it another week and start it up on the 18th. The reason I say a Monday is because it seems more posters are around during the week than on the weekend.

Julio · Post #43 » by **Julio** » Thu Aug 7, 2008 2:03 pm

I certainely won't participate( I think I'll let the other, with more knowledge, do it) but I will gladly watch it and read it.
Good luck to you guys, because it will be a long project!

Post #44 » by **Doctor MJ** » Thu Aug 7, 2008 2:42 pm

tkb wrote:What I like about having votes count over is that you don't have to follow the stream all the time which is what happened last time. Since your vote basically didn't count unless you voted for one of the 2 most popular picks, there wasn't really a point in voting for someone other than those 2 candidates even if you felt like other candidates were better. If you have votes count over, everyone at least has the chance to vote honestly on every spot instead of going for a "lesser of two evils" strategy and every vote will count, which also is nice.

Obviously you have to discard votes if someone tries to get a joke player into the top 100 (Travis Diener for instance), but I don't think that will happen.

Okay let me give a more realistic example: Sabonis was getting votes from the teens to the 30s or 40s (whenever he won out). So I think it's pretty clear that even with no joke votes, this approach could result in a player winning out well before there's any kind of consensus. The question for the gallery then is if they want that.

Post #45 » by **tkb** » Thu Aug 7, 2008 10:52 pm

If we are given direction as to which criteria to weigh the most I don't think you'll see as big spreads of votes as someone like Sabonis (or Bill Walton) got last time.

What I do think is important is that people vote with honesty on every vote, and I think having votes count over makes it easier to do that. If Wilt and MJ have 7 votes a piece for spot nr 1, and I feel like KAJ should be voted in at 1 there is no point for me to vote for him since I won't be making any kind of impact with that vote. I just think it's easier for people to vote for who they really want to vote for all the time if the votes count over.

Post #46 » by **penbeast0** » Thu Aug 7, 2008 10:59 pm

yes, but that's consensus voting. The other way there is great potential for abuse as everyone else thinks the #10 spot is between Oscar and Moses and you are voting for Chris Paul to move him up into the 20s/teens.

Post #47 » by **tkb** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 2:18 am

The nomination process stops that though as someone who wants to vote in a player will have to both nominate him and vote him in against everyone else, which will take a long while.

And if were stressing this quality over quantity thing when it comes to voters, this shouldn't be an issue at all since the quality posters wont pull stunts like that. Should that happen, we still have the option to discard votes that are clearly not made in good faith, so this won't be an issue when we get to the voting. People being semi-forced to vote for players they don't think are the best of the nominees will probably happen on every single vote if the votes don't carry over, so I don't know which is the bigger negative between the risk of someone abusing the system I suggested or voters not representing their honest view. All I want is an honest vote, and I can guarantee that won't happen if every vote doesn't have an impact.

JordansBulls · Post #48 » by **JordansBulls** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 2:19 am

How long will the voting be?

Will it be longer initially or shorter? Will the voting time increase as we go up?

Baller 24 · Post #49 » by **Baller 24** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 2:23 am

I'm saying 2 days per thread, that sound good guys?

Post #50 » by **tkb** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 2:25 am

Last time we had 24 hours. If you go 2 days per thread, this thing will take over 6 months.

JordansBulls · Post #51 » by **JordansBulls** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 2:30 am

tkb wrote:Last time we had 24 hours. If you go 2 days per thread, this thing will take over 6 months.

Then we should just do top 50 or top 75 for now and see how it goes and see how much participation we get.

Baller 24 · Post #52 » by **Baller 24** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 4:06 am

Well I'll create the first thread right now, the immortal 6 will be included, TKB said 24 hrs, and thats fine with me. And like I said its up to you guys, we can do 50/75/100 doesn't matter to me. And so should we keep the vote count going? I'll create the first thread, and just give me an idea on what you guys want to do. Btw, what should I include in the thread? Accomplishments/Awards ?

Post #53 » by **Doctor MJ** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 4:29 am

i'd actually say start at 2 days until we get settled.

Baller 24 · Post #54 » by **Baller 24** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 4:34 am

Uh oh lol too late, I guess we can finish off the first one, which shouldn't be hard, and then wait until we get the rules in place for the vote count.

And btw, can one of the mods sticky the first thread? thanks

Post #55 » by **Doctor MJ** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 4:41 am

tkb wrote:If we are given direction as to which criteria to weigh the most I don't think you'll see as big spreads of votes as someone like Sabonis (or Bill Walton) got last time.

What I do think is important is that people vote with honesty on every vote, and I think having votes count over makes it easier to do that. If Wilt and MJ have 7 votes a piece for spot nr 1, and I feel like KAJ should be voted in at 1 there is no point for me to vote for him since I won't be making any kind of impact with that vote. I just think it's easier for people to vote for who they really want to vote for all the time if the votes count over.

I understand your perspective. If that's what people want, that's cool. My vote would be a nay though. I think it's going to add it's own quirks we won't like, and I think it makes the voting less comprehensible.

ronnymac2 · Post #56 » by **ronnymac2** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 4:47 am

Just a quick question. Why are those six players the only players we can vote for for now?

Warspite · Post #57 » by **Warspite** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 4:55 am

I totaly see TKBs point of view and he is correct but Im not sold on his solution.

I vote for the best player regardless of the vote count. Its not my fault 20 voters think 2 lesser players are better than my player. Just because you all are wrong doesnt mean I should alter my vote.

Everyone should vote the player not look at the current poll.

Thats the only solution to TKBs objection IMHO. Understand the list is just a snapshot in time. We all have the right to be wrong even though we think its right. look at fashion for example. Leisure Suits was so right at the time but we arent wearing them today. Im sure theres a player who one day we will think was so much better than we do today. Pistol IMHO is a great example but in the other way. He was considered a top 25 or 30 player when he passed away but today he is considered an overrated, ballhog TO machine that couldnt shoot (but wouldnt stop trying). There may com ea day when Pistol is thought of as a man who was way ahead fo his time and underrated but today hes considered a cancer and loser.

Baller 24 · Post #58 » by **Baller 24** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 4:57 am

Well because those 6 are what I think most would agree on to start out the list, I'm not saying they will be the first 6, but thats where nominations come into play, basically vote for the number 1 and post a nomination.

ronnymac2 · Post #59 » by **ronnymac2** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 5:43 am

o alright. thanx.

Post #60 » by **tkb** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 7:37 am

Baller 24 wrote:Well I'll create the first thread right now, the immortal 6 will be included, TKB said 24 hrs, and thats fine with me. And like I said its up to you guys, we can do 50/75/100 doesn't matter to me. And so should we keep the vote count going? I'll create the first thread, and just give me an idea on what you guys want to do. Btw, what should I include in the thread? Accomplishments/Awards ?

Nice thread man. You did a great job representing the nominees.