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Favre traded to Jets (done deal)

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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#221 » by randy84 » Fri Aug 8, 2008 10:12 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Balls2TheWalls wrote:I'm not sure I buy into the fact that Rodgers could beat Favre in a competition.


Understand and agree. But I think Clayton's point was that a guy like Favre (or Montana) wouldn't want to take a chance with a competition. Just like the Packers never wanted Favre back in the first place (despite that goofy Mark Murphy press release), I don't think Favre ever had any intention of playing for the Packers if he had to compete for the starting job.


PP, I hate to disagree but Clayton's article is way off base.

Half of the guys on his list really didn't have a choice of going to another team. Staubach, Aikman, Young and Bradshaw had health problems. The only guys on the list that really could have possibly played longer are Elway, Marino and Montana. Elway left on top and Marino skills were beyond disminished. ( Look at the playoff lost to Jacksonville ). The guy that could go to another team did, Montana.

To compare Young to Rodgers is way out in left field. Young had attempted over 1,000 passes in real games before he was handed the starting job by SF. And don't forget that Montana had been out almost the whole season before with a back injury. So SF definitely knew what they had in Young because he had proven it on the field in real games. In many ways the choice was easy for SF.

Rodgers, on the other hand, hasn't proven anything yet. He hasn't even attempted 100 passes in real games. Plus, Favre was coming off one of his best years ever.

The issue is that the Packers weren't even going to allow a competition. They wanted Favre to accept the fact that he would be a backup and if something happened to Rodgers he would go in. So I wouldn't say that Favre was scared of the competition.

I know Clayton gets paid big bucks to write articles, but this one doesn't even make sense.
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#222 » by Kerb Hohl » Fri Aug 8, 2008 10:18 pm

randy84 wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:
Balls2TheWalls wrote:I'm not sure I buy into the fact that Rodgers could beat Favre in a competition.


Understand and agree. But I think Clayton's point was that a guy like Favre (or Montana) wouldn't want to take a chance with a competition. Just like the Packers never wanted Favre back in the first place (despite that goofy Mark Murphy press release), I don't think Favre ever had any intention of playing for the Packers if he had to compete for the starting job.


PP, I hate to disagree but Clayton's article is way off base.

Half of the guys on his list really didn't have a choice of going to another team. Staubach, Aikman, Young and Bradshaw had health problems. The only guys on the list that really could have possibly played longer are Elway, Marino and Montana. Elway left on top and Marino skills were beyond disminished. ( Look at the playoff lost to Jacksonville ). The guy that could go to another team did, Montana.

To compare Young to Rodgers is way out in left field. Young had attempted over 1,000 passes in real games before he was handed the starting job by SF. And don't forget that Montana had been out almost the whole season before with a back injury. So SF definitely knew what they had in Young because he had proven it on the field in real games. In many ways the choice was easy for SF.

Rodgers, on the other hand, hasn't proven anything yet. He hasn't even attempted 100 passes in real games. Plus, Favre was coming off one of his best years ever.

The issue is that the Packers weren't even going to allow a competition. They wanted Favre to accept the fact that he would be a backup and if something happened to Rodgers he would go in. So I wouldn't say that Favre was scared of the competition.

I know Clayton gets paid big bucks to write articles, but this one doesn't even make sense.


Mike McCarthy wrote:On if the team told Favre they would have a competition with Aaron Rodgers for the starting spot if Favre came back: "Ted Thompson and I and Mark talked about if we got to that spot, that we would let Brett compete for his position, and I talked to Brett about that, and he felt that was clearly the best way to go. He had no problem competing, but once again, we could not get past that. That's as far as the conversation went. He was going to have the opportunity to compete for his spot...I'll just say this. The players have a complete understanding of our plan, of everything that's happened. They're abreast of everything that's gone on. But they've moved past it. It's a situation that will not occur.
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#223 » by randy84 » Fri Aug 8, 2008 10:35 pm

Mike McCarthy quote:

"I didn't get the answers to the questions that I was looking for to open that competition up, so why would I do that to my football team? McCarthy said. "That would be poor leadership. It's not a popularity contest. I wasn't going to go there." -- Milwaukee Journal Sentinel 5/5/2008
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#224 » by Kerb Hohl » Fri Aug 8, 2008 10:54 pm

randy84 wrote:Mike McCarthy quote:

"I didn't get the answers to the questions that I was looking for to open that competition up, so why would I do that to my football team? McCarthy said. "That would be poor leadership. It's not a popularity contest. I wasn't going to go there." -- Milwaukee Journal Sentinel 5/5/2008


Exactly. He offered a competition but Favre basically said he didn't want it or McCarthy was under the impression that Favre didn't want it. Thanks.
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#225 » by Mags FTW » Fri Aug 8, 2008 11:05 pm

Neusch23 wrote:If Tom Brady came to the Packers, and Brett was still our QB, he would sit. Win now, while you can.

Wait a sec. You're saying Brady would sit, or Favre would sit?
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#226 » by randy84 » Fri Aug 8, 2008 11:41 pm

CharlosVllnueva wrote:
randy84 wrote:Mike McCarthy quote:

"I didn't get the answers to the questions that I was looking for to open that competition up, so why would I do that to my football team? McCarthy said. "That would be poor leadership. It's not a popularity contest. I wasn't going to go there." -- Milwaukee Journal Sentinel 5/5/2008


Exactly. He offered a competition but Favre basically said he didn't want it or McCarthy was under the impression that Favre didn't want it. Thanks.


I am glad that we agree that McCarthy never offered to open up the competition.
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#227 » by Ayt » Sat Aug 9, 2008 12:00 am

randy84 wrote:
CharlosVllnueva wrote:
randy84 wrote:Mike McCarthy quote:

"I didn't get the answers to the questions that I was looking for to open that competition up, so why would I do that to my football team? McCarthy said. "That would be poor leadership. It's not a popularity contest. I wasn't going to go there." -- Milwaukee Journal Sentinel 5/5/2008


Exactly. He offered a competition but Favre basically said he didn't want it or McCarthy was under the impression that Favre didn't want it. Thanks.


I am glad that we agree that McCarthy never offered to open up the competition.


He was willing to open the competition if he felt Favre was 100% commited to the Packers. He wasn't so he didn't.
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#228 » by El Duderino » Sat Aug 9, 2008 12:27 am

Ayt wrote:
He was willing to open the competition if he felt Favre was 100% commited to the Packers. He wasn't so he didn't.


I'm fine with the Packers going with Rodgers, but i just don't believe the team was going to really open the job up for a legit competition, even if Brett told McCarthy that he was committed to the Packers.

McGinn in his chat today pretty much summed up my thoughts on this

Personally, I don't think Favre had a chance to play in GB, period, once he retired on March 6. Maybe the dalliance in late March might have brought him back. Everything after that was just stuff. The club was not going to use this player in 2007. Forgot all that reporting about open competition. That was just a ploy to buy time and placate fans and others. The only way was if Rodgers would have broken a leg this week or next week. Then I'm pretty sure they would have gone back to Favre. Barring injury, no way.


Aaron was MM/TT's choice by the time Brett came in, it would have taken a disaster like rest of camp and preseason from Rodgers to lose the job. Besides the team questioning if Brett could win the big games, Favre looking like the cold was anthrax, him not training properly this offseason, Brett being 39, and them wanting to finally see what Rodgers could do, bridges were beyond burned when Favre finally showed up.
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#229 » by randy84 » Sat Aug 9, 2008 12:33 am

McCarthy just said that he didn't get the answers that he wanted from Favre. I am not sure why you think the only question was whether or not he was 100% committed. I have the feeling alot more questions than that were asked, otherwise the meeting would have last a couple of minutes.

MM: Brett are you committed 100% to competing for the starting job.

Favre: No, I am not committed.

Meeting ends.
Elapse time: 1 minute.
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#230 » by Kerb Hohl » Sat Aug 9, 2008 1:58 am

randy84 wrote:McCarthy just said that he didn't get the answers that he wanted from Favre. I am not sure why you think the only question was whether or not he was 100% committed. I have the feeling alot more questions than that were asked, otherwise the meeting would have last a couple of minutes.

MM: Brett are you committed 100% to competing for the starting job.

Favre: No, I am not committed.

Meeting ends.
Elapse time: 1 minute.


It probably went something like this.

Favre: I want to go to the Vikings. Welcome me back with open arms or release me so I can go there.

Leading up to 4 hours of arguing.

I am saying this somewhat not seriously but also a bit seriously. MM/TT would never say that in public though if it happened to be true.

Favre was saying some waffly stuff this whole time. I don't think he was committed. I understand we both see things from different perspectives but MM said he planned to open up competition if Brett was committed enough here and I'm going to believe that. I don't think Brett has really denied that.
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#231 » by L&H_05 » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:29 am

Mags FTW wrote:
Neusch23 wrote:If Tom Brady came to the Packers, and Brett was still our QB, he would sit. Win now, while you can.

Wait a sec. You're saying Brady would sit, or Favre would sit?
Clearly Brady would sit.. Especially with a stud like Rodgers on that roster...

Rodgers gives that team the best chance to win... Or so I've been told.. :lol:
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#232 » by Mags FTW » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:38 am

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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#233 » by m23uza1hem36 » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:27 am

:lol:
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#234 » by bucks59 » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:01 pm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1218503 ... mod=sports


Is Brett a bad bet for the Jets?

Allen Barra

Arriving in New York last Friday, Brett Favre sounded as if he had taken a page from Bull Durham's Nuke LaLoosh. "I'm here for one reason," he told reporters. "I'm here to help the Jets win."

It would have been refreshing if at least one of the worshipful media folk at the press conference had replied, "Well, actually, Brett, you're here because after months of vacillating on your retirement and putting the Packers through hell -- and forcing them into using a valuable draft pick on an extra quarterback because they didn't know whether you'd be playing for them this season -- you tried to bully them into either making you the starter or trading you to a team of your choice. Like a prima donna, you put your own desires ahead of the welfare of the organization to which you professed loyalty. Now you've been dumped on one of the NFL's most desperate franchises because no one else wanted you."

Instead, we're getting gush from a New York media that really ought to know better. Here's the Daily News's Mike Lupica on August 8: "The Jets became a viable franchise [by signing Favre], made you finally notice and talk about them and care about them." As if talking and caring translates into winning football games. And here's CBS's Phil Simms, former New York Giants quarterback and Super Bowl winner: "This is bigger than when Joe Montana left the Forty-Niners to go to Kansas City in 1993."

It would be if Brett Favre were as good as Joe Montana. Mr. Montana won four Super Bowls and was arguably the greatest quarterback in football history; Mr. Favre has won just one Super Bowl and is probably the most overrated, or at the very least overhyped, quarterback in the modern NFL.

Let's strip the Brett-to-the-Jets deal of the illusions the media has wrapped it in. What we have is a 4-12 team that has signed a 38-year-old quarterback who, though he made something of a comeback last season, hasn't otherwise finished in the top five of the league's passers since 2001. (In 2006 he was ranked 25th; in 2005, 31st.).

From 2005 to 2007, Mr. Favre has thrown 66 touchdown passes and 62 interceptions. If any other NFL quarterback had put up those numbers, his job would be on the line; instead, the New York Jets have chosen to delay the inevitable process of breaking in a new young quarterback -- and in fact have released Chad Pennington, who, according to Kerry Byrne of the Web site Cold Hard Football Facts, is "maybe the most underrated quarterback in the NFL."

Brett Favre is one of the most exciting pro quarterbacks ever -- "gun slinger" is the description most often associated with his go-for-broke style of passing. For the most part, the style has been successful: He has guided the Packers to the postseason 11 times in 16 seasons, and he is the NFL's all-time leader in passing attempts, completions, yards and touchdowns. There is no argument that he is a future Hall of Famer.

But there is also considerable evidence that he is nowhere near, as his admirers claim, the greatest passer ever to play the game or that he even ranks in the top 25. Mr. Favre's trademark has always been productivity over quality. He's been remarkably durable with the daring to throw the ball more than any other passer, but he hasn't always thrown it better. He has never, for instance, led the NFL in the league's passer-rating system, which measures effectiveness with various statistics. (In comparison, Joe Montana led the league twice; Mr. Montana's successor at San Francisco, Steve Young, was first six times, and Peyton Manning three times.)

Mr. Favre has probably been excused by fans for not winning a passer-rating title because its formula is so complex most fans don't understand it. However, in the single most important passing stat, yards per attempt (YPA), he has also never led the league and finished as high as second only once (in 1995 with a 7.7 average). Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger currently leads the league in active players at over 8.1 yards per throw.

It's true that Mr. Favre holds the all-time record for TD passes (442), but what isn't as well known is that he also holds the record for most interceptions (288). Perhaps the best way of understanding Mr. Favre's effectiveness is to compare him to baseball pitcher Nolan Ryan, who holds the all-time record for strikeouts but also for walks. Everyone concedes that Mr. Ryan was a legitimate Hall of Famer, but with a lifetime winning percentage of .526, no one argues that he was the best ever or even among his own contemporaries.

Nor, it must be admitted, has Mr. Favre been a particularly good big game performer. His career postseason is a mediocre 12-10, including an embarrassing 23-20 loss to the underdog New York Giants in the NFC conference championship this past January. On his own home field Mr. Favre was outdueled by the previously unheralded Eli Manning. In fact, as a postseason passer Mr. Favre has never approached the record of the Packers' Bart Starr, who won five NFL championships from 1961 to 1967.

Football historian T.J. Troup feels that Mr. Favre's place among the all-time greats is difficult to assess: "In the modern NFL, the rules favor passing over defense, so statistics alone can't tell the story. Put it this way: Favre has won three MVP awards, but except maybe in 1995, he has never really been the best and not as good as many passers from 'the dead ball era,' like Otto Graham, Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr and Roger Staubach were in theirs."

However good Mr. Favre was, though, is beside the point to the 2008 New York Jets, who may have bet their future on a Hail Mary pass.

Mr. Barra writes about sports for the Journal.

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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#235 » by Fort Minor » Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:34 pm

The name Barra sounds familiar. Didn't he write some article bashing Favre last season as well?

After reading what he said about Favrew losing to the Giants, I shutter to think what he'd say about Tom Brady.
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#236 » by bucks59 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:01 pm

Easterbrook's take.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ortCat=nfl

Actual quotation: "I don't want to be a distraction to the Packers." Brett Favre, July 26. Brutus also said he did not want to be a distraction to Julius Caesar. Et tu, Brette?
Now that Favrarama is finally over -- please, say it's over -- it's time to confront the real reason No. 4 is no longer a Packer: bureaucratic politics. From a distance, it appeared irrational that Green Bay actively wanted to be rid of the leading performer in its history -- Lambeau Field in January is not as frosty as this Packers press release -- while Favre actively wanted to disparage the organization that conferred celebrity on him. Yet seen through the lens of bureaucratic politics, all made sense.

Favre wanted Green Bay management to bow and scrape before him, and wanted the world to think he was the one calling the shots. There's never been a Bill Russell or Dave Cowens in the modern NFL, as player-coaching doesn't work in such a complex sport. It seems Favre longed to be seen as the first player/general manager. For years, he has been lecturing Green Bay leadership in public about decisions regarding Randy Moss, Marco Rivera and others. When Favre appeared to hang up his cleats in March, Green Bay management made the decision to anoint Aaron Rodgers and add another prominent quarterback in the draft. By demanding to come back, Favre was essentially saying to the world, "Another wrong management decision, what they should have done was spent the spring begging me to return." It's arguable this is indeed what Green Bay management should have done -- the Packers were more likely to have a strong season in 2008 with Favre than with Rodgers. (Switching to Rodgers probably improves the five-year outlook.) From the bureaucratic standpoint, the key was that Favre wanted to be the one in charge, making the decision about who takes the snap.

For Green Bay's management -- president Mark Murphy, general manager Ted Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy -- bureaucratic politics was paramount. All were sick of waxing Favre's car and picking up his dry cleaning; he treated them like footmen, and they've been simmering. In 2006, Favre staged a retirement melodrama that ended with Favre acting in public as though he saved the team by coming back. Maybe the coaching staff and management had something to do with team success, too! So long as Favre hung around, there was no way Murphy, Thompson or McCarthy would ever get credit for Green Bay accomplishments: it would be Favre, Favre, Favre in the media. Consider the possibilities grid created when Favre tearfully "retired" in March:

Favre ends career; Packers have winning season. Murphy, Thompson and McCarthy are praised as mega-geniuses for having a succession plan in place.

Favre ends career; Packers have losing season. Murphy, Thompson and McCarthy off the hook. People say, "What did you expect after they lost Brett Favre?"

Once Favre started demanding a comeback, the possibilities became entirely negative from the standpoint of Green Bay management:

Green Bay agrees to whatever Favre wants. "Boy, what a bunch of wusses those guys running the Packers are."

Favre stays in Mississippi; Green Bay has winning season. Fans complain, "The year would have been so much more fun if those idiots running the team had brought Favre back."

Favre stays in Mississippi, Packers have losing season. "The Packers are run by idiots!"

Favre traded to another team, plays well. "Idiots! Idiots!"

Favre traded to another team, plays poorly. Murphy, Thompson and McCarthy blamed; their disrespect to Favre is said to have caused him to end his storied career on a sour note. Surely, Favre himself will be saying this.

Favre returns to Packers; Green Bay has winning season. Brett Favre! Brett Favre! Brett Favre! That's all you hear from the national media. Green Bay management will be seen as fools for almost fouling up a Favre comeback -- in which Favre single-handedly won games, of course.
Favre returns to Packers, Green Bay has losing season. "It's all their fault because of the way they treated him!"

Thus if Favre actually stayed retired, Murphy, Thompson and McCarthy faced an appealing set of prospects -- either they would be lavished with praise for success, or not blamed for failure. Once Favre began demanding reinstatement, there was no scenario in which Packers management came off looking good. This explains why Murphy, Thompson and McCarthy reacted so negatively to the late June news that Favre was talking comeback. They knew they'd not only have to deal anew with a runaway ego, but no matter what they did, they'd be denounced.

Meanwhile, Favre was "retired" for five months, during a period in which people in his profession are normally inactive anyway. There must be a better verb than "retire" for what occurs when a pro athlete ends his playing career, since this happens when the person is relatively young and will continue working for decades.

In other football news, on the morning he was traded the main headline of NFL.com read, "NEW JERSEY FOR FAVRE." Finally, they get it! Carrying Favrarama to its logical extreme, what if Brett retired every week? See below.
In still more football news, Tuesday Morning Quarterback is back -- I'm back and I'm bad! Well, anyway, I'm back. With the resumption of the football artificial universe, TMQ returns to these pages through that Super Bowl thing you might have heard about. Block out Tuesday time on your day planner. This week, my annual offseason lowlights column.

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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#237 » by Kerb Hohl » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:01 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3533307

Favre says arm feeling 'fatigued,' will ask for fewer throws in afternoon

Associated Press

Updated: August 13, 2008, 1:54 PM ET


Brett Favre Talks With Laveranues Coles

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. -- Brett Favre said his rocket right arm felt "fatigued" -- but not sore -- during a break from his fifth day of practice with the New York Jets.

"My arm's kind of dragging a little bit today," the quarterback said Wednesday after the Jets' morning session. "It's not really sore, but just fatigued. To be honest with you, I'm surprised that, I don't want to say I feel good, that I've been able to make it through every practice so far."

Favre was acquired from the Green Bay Packers last week, and has been practicing with the Jets since Saturday. He's set to start Saturday's preseason game against the Washington Redskins.

"I didn't throw the ball that well this morning, underthrew some throws," Favre said. "No pain, but I'm 38 years old. It's going to be fatigued a little bit."

Jets coach Eric Mangini hadn't yet spoke to Favre when he met with reporters before the afternoon workout.

"We only have two practices left before the game and we do monitor that stuff," Mangini said. "You guys talked to him more than I did, so I don't really know where he is with that."

Since his practice debut, Favre has been on the field for two practices Sunday, one Monday and had a day of classroom work Tuesday.

"My arm, for the most part, has felt great," he said. "Legs, a little bit fatigued. You've got to figure I'm a little bit behind some of these guys. I'm a little bit surprised that, up to this point, I've been doing OK."

Favre, who took his second penalty lap -- which was again cheered -- since joining the Jets, ended the morning session on a good note. The three-time league MVP hit Brad Smith on a fourth-down play for 53 yards -- about 45 in the air -- down the right sideline for a touchdown.

"Believe me, this system's not easy," Favre said. "I'm not going to sit here and tell you I've got it down. I've got about just enough plays down to run those plays Saturday. How it turns out, I have no idea. I hope it turns out well."

So do the Jets, of course, who sent a conditional draft pick to Green Bay for Favre and then cut franchise favorite and former first-round pick Chad Pennington.

"We've had a few false starts and I've had to run a couple of laps, no big deal," he said. "No one wants to see that. You want it to run like it should, and I think, for the most part, we've done that. Now, they haven't thrown everything at me, but I could go into a game and I think I could manage a game OK."

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#238 » by Neusch23 » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:08 am

Not to say that I am connected, however I have several insiders in Minny, and a bunch with the Packers, and while it takes some pressing with the Packers people (minny offer it up like nothing) here is what I have heard from more than one source for all.

Brett retired because of family issues, not because of play issues. Heard from muliple that he was caught in an affair, that his daughter was having major personal issues, and he was being extorted by a child he fathered in the early 90's.

McCarthy was thrilled to hear in June that Brett wanted back. TT had his mind made up, and McCarthy has to follow the rules.

Several hire ups are very up set with how Murphy handled this, and his "I support TT and MM" every day saying was not the way to handle it. They wish Harlan was still in the position, but Harlan didn't even want his name out there tied to this mess. TT didn't want to hear what he had to say because TT was the driving force, when the most of the board, and coaching staff wanted Brett back from day one.

before the Pack hired TT, Holmgren called Harlan and told him that he felt TT would do a very good job, but that he NEVER would get along with Brett, and that there would be very public run ins.

Minny offered a first round pick, straight up. A future second if they made and won the SuperBowl with Brett. =(



The juicy stuff I don't want to list because I only heard them from one side, and couldn't get people to say yeah or nay on them.

Take them for what it is worth. Some good stuff there. I will say, that one person, who was part of the hire process for Murphy said that if this majorly fails (wouldn't say what that meant) that Murphy and TT would be gone because of the black eye that was brought to GB, no matter how much Brett played in that.

Right or wrong, this played out about as bad as anything could play out. the town, players and organisation had to put up with more than they ever should have, if we had good leadership.

Lets just say that we better make the playoffs....and most of the insiders I know....say that the locker room is together, but to use their words, everyone is on thin ice, and any little bit of failing could crack it, and break the team back up, where they were not 2 weeks ago when it was mostly vets vs youth.
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#239 » by Mags FTW » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:27 am

Neusch23 wrote:before the Pack hired TT, Holmgren called Harlan and told him that he felt TT would do a very good job, but that he NEVER would get along with Brett, and that there would be very public run ins.

Pretty much the only part I care about. Just curious as to why Holmgren thought they would butt heads.
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Re: Favre traded to Jets (done deal) 

Post#240 » by bucks59 » Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:42 am

Thanks Neusch23, that was a good read.

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